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LadyLocust

LadyLocust

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I'm not sure if this should be here or in Preps. Thinking about shortages and the general state of things. This is an awesome group and I think for the most part, many of us have been "stocking up" while we are able. But. . . has anyone ever lived from their own means? Not money buying what you need. I mean like raising the animals and garden and not using a grocery store? I know growing up we only went to the store about once per month, but we did go and bought loads. I now buy few items, but plenty of them. I'm not sure we could grow all we needed in our current location - maybe???
Anyhoo, was just wondering ~ will be interested in your comments.
 
Right now I'm still at stack it to the rafters mode, just to make things easier before the crash comes. But I have been doing this for many years, now. Since we moved to the "home of my grandparents" just a year and a half ago, I've been figuring out how they lived here. They were born in 1900, lived just down the road from our farm. Went through the Spanish flu here, great depression, and a couple of wars. Mom remembers the only thing that grandma was short on was sugar. Would trade her meat and dairy rations with townies for their sugar rations. Mostly needed extra sugar for canning fruit. They would go into the bigger town on occasion for sugar, oil, coffee. They didn't go hungry at all. So this year I'm giving attention to animal feed. Grandpa grew his own, ground it in the barn for chickens where necessary. Fed all his livestock. I'm going to need to rely on our community for things. Luckily the community I'm in is used to bartering and selling local. I don't need to be self sufficient in dairy (milk, cream, butter) because I get raw milk from a cousin and trade eggs. Same with beef, cousin does beef. We probably will do sheep this spring, at least a few to start. Our last 15 acres is alfalfa at the moment, and a cousin farms that, and helps us with projects in return. Also supplies us with alfalfa and straw. I know it would be really hard to provide everything you need by yourself. Right now, since I can still buy, I will, and add to our stockpile as much as I can. I know our property is capable of producing more, but I would need a few more hands to make it happen. I did get more fruit trees in last spring, and plan to add to them this spring. We grew way more vegetables than we ate fresh. Most were put up.
 
We are not even close to being self sustainable and I don't see us ever being that way.
My Grandparents were as close to self sufficient as anyone I have ever known.
When they butchered a hog Grandpa said the only thing that was not used was the pigs squeal. They raised hogs and chickens mostly because they were easy to raise and didn't take a lot of time and effort.
They only bought staples they could not provide themselves.
Coffee, flour, sugar, salt and spices, things of that nature.
As they got into their 70s and 80s they had to rely on the grocery stores.
The amount of work needed is not something most older folks are able to do.
There was a reason people used to have 10 or 12 kids. Free labor. They couldn't survive without the help.
 
That had always been part of my dream plan that if I should ever get the acreage to be sustainable. Well that never happened and I'm on about a 1/4 acre lot with neighbors all around.....but I do as much as I can with what I've got to work with.

I do have a few fruit trees and a big garden that I've grown just about everything we normally eat, including herbs and things like the peppers to make my own spices from. (cayenne & paprika). garlic for garlic powder, etc. Not just green beans, but dry soup beans as well. Some crops, such as the green beans, I can grow more than enough to eat fresh, freeze some and can the rest to feed us for a year or more. Tomatoes are another one, and I make sauce, diced, salsa, ketchup, etc. but I would have to expand my growing area to include the whole back yard (currently only about 1/4 of it is garden) to grow enough of everything.

I do raise chickens, mostly for eggs but also for meat when I end up with too many of them. I do have a good broody hen to keep the flock going. I also do the butchering. Nasty job, but somebody's got to do it. I have tinkered with growing their food and am still working with that project. So far, I still buy their feed.

I have grown some grains, like wheat, oats & barley. 1.) to increase my seed supply for that dream 2) to eventually grow it for the chicken feed and 3) maybe enough to feed us as well. I still need to work on an easier way of cleaning the seed by hand........and yes I have a manual grain grinder to make flour, if I had too. Though one time I had used a blender and added that 40% to store bought flour 60%


I've also grown out a few turkeys, which are cool birds, but a PITA to raise right next door to neighbors........the turkeys discovered their 'gobble' when the neighbors were entertaining friends. When the neighbors laughed, the turkeys gobbled in return. I thought it was funny, but not sure how the neighbors felt about it so the turkeys went to the freezer soon after that.

I'd much rather have atleast a good 20 acres, more the better to do cows and sheep, maybe a couple of horses as well. My dream plan included raising their feed as well, using pasture rotation, along with mowing for winter hay. But now that I'm old and falling apart, I'll stick with what I have and improve on that. I could get to 60%, maybe better sustainable. If I plan it right though
 
For me it's about maintaining skills. Hunting, gardening, starting a fire without "store bought" means! Even knowing where water sources are, watching where edible animals (squirrel, deer, quail, etc) nest and frequent are important! I harvest my own vegetable seeds, very important skill! The list can go on, but just keeping your "knowing how to do things" sharp is most important for me! My husband would die in a few days if left on his own to survive!
 
LadyLocust said:
I'm not sure if this should be here or in Preps. Thinking about shortages and the general state of things. This is an awesome group and I think for the most part, many of us have been "stocking up" while we are able. But. . . has anyone ever lived from their own means? Not money buying what you need. I mean like raising the animals and garden and not using a grocery store? I know growing up we only went to the store about once per month, but we did go and bought loads. I now buy few items, but plenty of them. I'm not sure we could grow all we needed in our current location - maybe???
Anyhoo, was just wondering ~ will be interested in your comments.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting question - I follow a couple of bloggers who are self-sustainable and the time & resources required to do so are quite high. I've heard a couple of times that you need to cultivate about 2 acres per adult to provide enough food to provide a year's worth of food. In Utah a 4-5 acre lot with a house and enough water rights to cultivate it will easily top a million dollars... making sustainability near impossible in my neck of the woods. However I've seen 20+ acre lots in TX, TN, VA, etc for $150K, with huge barns, workshops, etc.

Right now the only thing we're really self sufficient in is eggs. Between our quail and chickens we end up giving tons away on top of what we use/preserve... :)
 
I will bring up the question of the 800 pound gorilla in the room; Prescription Medication. My family cannot live without them, at least not for very long. Those here that use them know what I am talking about. Those that don't have been very fortunate. I really don't know any way to be sustainable when it comes to prescription medications.
 
Morgan101 said:
I will bring up the question of the 800 pound gorilla in the room; Prescription Medication. My family cannot live without them, at least not for very long. Those here that use them know what I am talking about. Those that don't have been very fortunate. I really don't know any way to be sustainable when it comes to prescription medications.
Click to expand...


That is going to be a huge problem for many, especially since they won't give you more than a 30 day supply at a time of most RX's. So you can't really stockpile needed meds..
In a way that's kinda good I guess, because meds more so than food, can break down over time and no longer effective OR cause other problems because of chemical changes.
 
I don't think I could ever be fully self-sustaining. I felt the need for that before and tried taking on too many things at once, and failed miserably. I was so discouraged with trying to do too much by myself (feeling resentful that family members didn't share my conviction), and I was overwhelmed by my own ineptness. I stopped trying at all.

I was in Atlanta (caring for my middle son) when covid hit. DH and son3 were in Ohio, and DH isn't proactive. They did fine when shelves started going bare, due to the preps I had in the basement. (Here's an example of my husband's thinking: the local store had been empty of meat for a while. On the phone with DH he says the store finally got some chicken in, limit 3. I said, "so you bought 3?" And he says, "No, we have a package in the freezer, so we didn't need any.")

Prepping and self-sustainability aren't the same thing, I know. But just like covid showed me the importance of prepping, it also showed the importance of being more self-sustaining (less dependent) - and it showed me that what I do benefits my family, even if no one else in the family does it.

So now my goal is to become more self-sustaining than I am now. To take on one thing at a time, rather than try to learn it all at once (not that I think I could be completely self-sustaining). Grow more food this year than I did last year. Learn a new skill this week. That sort of thing. Make it more manageable and less overwhelming.
 
Morgan101 said:
I will bring up the question of the 800 pound gorilla in the room; Prescription Medication. My family cannot live without them, at least not for very long. Those here that use them know what I am talking about. Those that don't have been very fortunate. I really don't know any way to be sustainable when it comes to prescription medications.
Click to expand...
Definately a huge problem for many! We don't take any so it didn't cross my mind! Not something one could stick up on or easily come by!!
 
LadyLocust said:
...Thinking about shortages and the general state of things...
Click to expand...

Came across this Incredible (I think) article awhile back, that, while its 'focus' was sort of counter-point to all this Zommunist / NWO-cartel push to "sustainable-everything" (ie: Nothing but "green" / carbon-zero energy; Nothing of "private property" or "animal meat", etc (because, ya know.. those aren't 'equality enough', and aren't "sustainable" :rolleyes: etc etc) - it inadvertently illuminates a Wonderful 'principle' for Us, as the 'Wisely conservative, Anyway'...

Sustainability is unrealistic and we need to go back to basics, say experts

..Salient-excerpt / My favorite quips:

"..The answer, he says, is not only to consume less but to value more.

"We don't have to go back that far to find generations of people who saved up to purchase objects which they kept, in many cases, for a lifetime. They valued the things they had."

"Consuming less doesn't necessarily mean having a less material world," says Dr Barnatt. "It just has to be a material world in which we have the things we have for a longer period of time."

A world where disposability is once again considered a waste, not a virtue."

..AMEN!! LOVE it! That SO nails my perspective on things.. Invest in Quality / Old-World Craftsmanship - then you don't Have to worry about shortsighted, myopic 'feel good / Green' supply-killers like 'JIT' and 'Planned Obsolescence', etc.. I absolutely HATE the 'disposable' mentality (..'I'll just buy another one when it breaks!' :rolleyes: Ugh, doomed before they even get out of the Gate..

So Thankful I had 'Depression-era Grandparents' to give me 'Good Sails'.. :cool:

jd
 
Agree with you there, SoJer. Had a discussion with 16 yr old grandson last night...he was looking at facebook marketplace and finding weird stuff and showing me. One thing was an ordinary pack of Skittles candy, but on the label it said, "Supreme". And it was hugely expensive because it said Supreme on the wrapper. He said the Supreme brand on anything right now makes it really, really special. Kind of like kids wearing all Nike or all Addidas apparel. I never understand that, but the kids nowadays and pretty much before since the 80's (and the Gloria Vanderbuilt jeans with the elaborate pockets) will spend their money, or their parent's money on branded items. Like in the movie, "Idiocracy"
 
I'd say its virtually impossible to be 100% self sufficient now days. We all need a way to earn money, for things like taxes, insurance, vehicle tags, etc.
The wife and I are better set up than most, and worse off than many. Its just the wife and I here. I'm 64 and starting to have a hard time putting up a hundred ton of hay for the cattle by myself every year and maintaining miles of fencing. Don't have the equipment to make several ton of feed for the chickens and the beef in the feed lot so we buy it. We do have fish in the pond and lots of deer, elk, turkey, grouse and quail on the property. Firewood will never be a problem for us, enough grazing land to feed a decent number of cattle, good water from a deep well and we're pretty healthy. Our only complaint is the kids and grandkids live 400 miles away.
 
Some really good input! Interesting, the perspectives. I appreciate all of this.
@Biggkidd I've heard this a few times also & agree.
@SoJer I agree! One of the things I ask when something breaks or needs to be replaced is "What can I do or buy so I will never have to buy this again?" I have a lot of antiques due to that question. Even my iron, when my iron died several years back, I found a small vintage one like new. I use it to this day and it works great. When the drier dies I don't see myself replacing it. I wish I could buy one pair of shoes that would last the rest of my life.
@Morgan101 I am going to say this, but want to say it kindly and as genteel as possible. Please know I wish no ill upon anyone. While some folks would love to play God, I'm ever grateful that I'm not. I have a very dear friend who I would do almost anything for. She has a special needs child who had surgery at about 2-3 weeks old. She flat lined a couple times during the surgery and as a result is special needs. Their daughter is now 11-12 years old, and there have been some very difficult times. I wish them every blessing! They are a wonderful family. But in talking w/ Hubby about it before, I've said, "Maybe we're not all meant to live." Again, I don't mean that to sound cold and heartless. I just mean, at what point are we countering God's will? (I have no idea what the answer is. It's one of those things that I ponder sometimes w/ grief.)
@goshengirl & @JustMe Wowza! Good job to both of you. It can be a lot for one or two people. I guess in such situations, I think a situation like @Amish Heart describes where the reliance is a close niche, is next best thing.
Or the next situation (I'm thinking as I type) would be, can you live without certain things? And to what extent?
 
I think this is a great topic. Thank you, LadyLocust.

I am not even close to being sustainable. I keep trying to be as independent as I am able to.

One of the things that I have researched was about things that I absolutely could never grow or make, or would be really difficult for me to do so. Things that I think would be much more difficult to grow or make are things like baking soda, wheat, and other grains. If I was out in the country where I grew up, I could be more likely to have access to the machinery, fields and ability to grow grains and then to have my own granary or a few granaries.

I met a man at the LDS Bishop's storehouse who told me that his church had gotten a large amount of wheat delivered 30 years prior. People used trash cans with lids that they taped to seal and took home lots of wheat and stored it in those trash cans. He told me they grind their own wheat and always had homemade bread from that wheat, and 30 years later, were still using it. For people who do not have the ability to raise something like wheat, this is the second best way to prepare, to store a decent supply of something and to know how to process it. A 25 pound bag of red wheat is currently $16.81, and white wheat is $17.10.
 
SoJer said:
Came across this Incredible (I think) article awhile back, that, while its 'focus' was sort of counter-point to all this Zommunist / NWO-cartel push to "sustainable-everything" (ie: Nothing but "green" / carbon-zero energy; Nothing of "private property" or "animal meat", etc (because, ya know.. those aren't 'equality enough', and aren't "sustainable" :rolleyes: etc etc) - it inadvertently illuminates a Wonderful 'principle' for Us, as the 'Wisely conservative, Anyway'...

Sustainability is unrealistic and we need to go back to basics, say experts

..Salient-excerpt / My favorite quips:

"..The answer, he says, is not only to consume less but to value more.

"We don't have to go back that far to find generations of people who saved up to purchase objects which they kept, in many cases, for a lifetime. They valued the things they had."

"Consuming less doesn't necessarily mean having a less material world," says Dr Barnatt. "It just has to be a material world in which we have the things we have for a longer period of time."

A world where disposability is once again considered a waste, not a virtue."

..AMEN!! LOVE it! That SO nails my perspective on things.. Invest in Quality / Old-World Craftsmanship - then you don't Have to worry about shortsighted, myopic 'feel good / Green' supply-killers like 'JIT' and 'Planned Obsolescence', etc.. I absolutely HATE the 'disposable' mentality (..'I'll just buy another one when it breaks!' :rolleyes: Ugh, doomed before they even get out of the Gate..

So Thankful I had 'Depression-era Grandparents' to give me 'Good Sails'.. :cool:

jd
Click to expand...
I so get you and this! I call it the need for the latest and the greatest. It doesn't matter if people have something that fits, works, and gets the job done. I know someone who gets a new wardrobe every season and gets rid of the former. For her, this is part of her OCD.

I think of my first crockpot, toaster, and a few other things like that, that have been replaced. Some stopped working, some were replaced because I was gifted with newer or better.

Being raised by grandparents, I got the clean plate, and saving everything education.

Great grandfather would go to town and buy groceries that were wrapped in paper and tied with a string. Story was that when he died, he had a very large ball of string. I have always wondered what happened to that, because it would be kind of a fun heirloom.

I have read about some rich and famous people getting about repairing and mending clothing. I know Prince Charles is one, but I have seen stories about others, realizing that our earth only has so much, so a different kind of sustainability. Prince Charles on His "Stopped Clock" Style and Fondness For Mending His Clothes
 
People talk a lot about "sustainability". And I love the sound of that, the desire for that. But see only one person on this forum who in my opinion could pull that off. The problem I see is that currently the retail markets supply that which people "DESIRE" for their sustainment.

When that vanishes or is massively compromised in its ability to adequately supply, where will people look.....??? Yes, first to the government, "then" to take it by force wherever they see it.
 
Sourdough said:
People talk a lot about "sustainability". And I love the sound of that, the desire for that. But see only one person on this forum who in my opinion could pull that off. The problem I see is that currently the retail markets supply that which people "DESIRE" for their sustainment.

When that vanishes or is massively compromised in its ability to adequately supply, where will people look.....??? Yes, first to the government, "then" to take it by force wherever they see it.
Click to expand...
It will be ugly for a while, won't it? So few people have skills, knowledge, or desire to do things that were commonplace before.
 
Weedygarden said:
It will be ugly for a while, won't it? So few people have skills, knowledge, or desire to do things that were commonplace before.
Click to expand...
Not to hi-jack this thread, but if there are humans around, who are hungry, they are going to be ugly to deal with. I keep saying it, but if the SHTF really bad, starvation will be well-down the list of problems.
 
Sourdough said:
Not to hi-jack this thread, but if there are humans around, who are hungry, they are going to be ugly to deal with. I keep saying it, but if the SHTF really bad, starvation will be well-down the list of problems.
Click to expand...
It is a matter of time and location. And yes, there are going to be many problems, some that we may not even be able to imagine.
 
I think it's best to do what we can do. At present, that's not a lot for me, but I can do some things. Some of you may have seen my posts declaring that I'm not a doomsday prepper at all, I'm a short term prepper. For example, my water pipes were frozen when I returned from a trip a few days ago. I had water put back just for that purpose, so it was a minor inconvenience. I could drink and I could fill my toilet tank and I could have even taken a bucket bath had it been necessary, for 3 days or a bit longer. I'm not set up to survive the apocalypse and I'm not going to try. As for sustainable, I think what you really meant is "self sufficient". And that's a great goal, but humans are societal creatures and I don't think very many are ever truly self sufficient. We're meant to cooperate and that takes our existence to another level. So do what you can, and use the benefits of those efforts to make your situation better...
 
This is a good thread, Ladylocust. It evokes a lot of thought and forces you to look critically at your situation. I have always looked at prepping in five general categories: Shelter, Water, Food, Fire, and Security. I will ask the question of each category.

Shelter: Yes. I am sustainable. My residence is not that old, and in very good repair. It isn't going anywhere and neither am I.

Water: Yes. I am sustainable. Beyond what I have stored I have surface water and catchment systems and ways to purify where needed. Water won't be an issue.

Food: No. I am not sustainable. We opt for long term storage and supplies, not grow and raise your own. We need more.

Fire: Yes. I am sustainable. In this category I include warmth. We could survive long term power outages. It would be uncomfortable, but we would survive. We have access to large amounts of firewood if needed, and methods to cut, process, and haul modest distances. We have more than enough clothing, blankets, portable heaters etc. to survive.

Security: In this category I would say we are 50-50. Can we protect what we have? Depends on who tries to take it, and how long the fire fight lasts. From common rabble probably yes. From a well armed and well trained force? No. In this category I would add medicine and first aid. For general first aid we are fine. Prescription drugs are an issue.

So am I sustainable? I would say somewhere in the 75% range. I know where the holes are, and we are working to improve.
 
Sustainability and survivability is my primary focus. I work at it, study it, spend money on it and practice it as best I can with one foot still in the current supply chain like everyone else. It would be difficult and the suck would be immense. I often think if I just had two more years to work at this, I will be almost adequately set, but their is always something else.

I know I will loose my wife fairly early on due to a condition that would be impossible to sustain if we loose the supply chain. That I know would change me and how I approach things. I’m not exactly sure how it would change me, but it certainly would.
 
Amish Heart said:
this year I'm giving attention to animal feed. Grandpa grew his own, ground it in the barn for chickens where necessary.
Click to expand...
This is on my list of priorities for this year as well. First it’s getting the chickens off the pellets and breeding our own chicks instead of buying them. I’ve started growing meal worms and started a worm bin. I still have a lot of research to do but can’t get to it right now.
 
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