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lonewolf

Awesome Friend
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Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,467
Location
Devon, UK
in the UK(don't know about everywhere else) we have 5 "grades" of land, here are some notes I made a few years ago:
Grade 1: Best Quality, suitable for most types of Horti and Agri cultural use.
Grade 2: Not Quite So Good, problems with some root crops, but acceptable.
Grade 3: good for grazing and cereals.
Grade 4: mainly grazing.
Grade 5: ROUGH!
most land in my location is grade 4 and 5.
 
Never heard of that in my area. But folks do judge land (well at least they should) before buying. Here are my top few:

Could or has the land flooded?
How close it is to an interstate, main highway, or railway line
How does the land lay? Is it hills, rolling, flat, or mountainous?
Is there a creek or spring on it?
Bare land, forest, or a combination?

All depends on what you want from it.
 
Where I live, in central eastern Washington state most of the land would be a 4 or 5 without irrigation. With our irrigation system they have turned thousands of square miles into productive farm land. If we ever lose the ability to get water here it will all dry up and blow away and the people will be forced to move.
 
We have the same amount of water now as we ever had. As long as we have some kind of power we can have clean water.
We also have as much land as ever but we have 7 billion people now and that is more than we have ever had.
 
SheepDog said:
We have the same amount of water now as we ever had. As long as we have some kind of power we can have clean water.
We also have as much land as ever but we have 7 billion people now and that is more than we have ever had.
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This is true and most people don't know ' as I didn't either till recently ' that every drop of water on earth is still here, we haven't lost one drop of it BUT we have done some damage to it as has nature.
We have used too much water and dried up aquifers and allowed salt to come in.
 
As long as it rains or we have the means to distill it we will have water. You don't need drinking water to water the garden.
 
SheepDog said:
As long as it rains or we have the means to distill it we will have water. You don't need drinking water to water the garden.
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Whats with all the chem trails ? Whats in our rain now ?
Plenty of water on earth but only so much can be used for drinking. Man is not only killing off other species but also slowly killing off himself.
And it is the rich nations doing the most damage. I'm no tree hugging liberal by a long shot but I am aware of facts.
 
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backlash said:
The earth has a lot of water. The problem is getting that water to the right places. An even bigger problem is the aforementioned 7 Billion people. If that number was reduced by half the earth would be better off.
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Stop helping poor nations that have babies they can't feed. Birth control and jail for men who rape. Not genocide but choice ,libs ought to like that.
We cannot control actions of other nations and it should be that way, but we also don't have to keep helping to make breeding farms out of them either. It is more cruel than kind.
 
The problem isn't the amount of water but the fact that people choose to live where water is scarce. A friend of mine was an engineer on the California Aqueduct which brings water into a region that can't water many people. People want green lawns in the desert. People want to farm the cheap desert lands. California wants to take the water in the dams and run it into the ocean in the middle of a drought to protect some tiny fish nobody heard of. The water today is generally cleaner than it was in past generations.

On example, villages would dump their sewage I the same river that they drank from. They might get the drinking water from up stream but the next village would get full advantage. Today they have sewage lagoons. Every spring and fall the uppermost village pumps their lagoon on a regular schedule. They know the speed of the river and as the sewage reaches the next village they start pumping, and so it goes all the way down the river. Everyone has their water stocked before this starts and they let it flush for a day or so after so as to clean the river. The Alaska rivers and streams dump more water into the ocean every day than the N. America continent uses. So does the Mississippi. If your worried about water, move there is plenty.
 
its mostly clay around here which is why its grazing and hay making only.
its solid clay you can make pots out it, the clay works where they used to make bricks is 4 miles up the road, its a cycle path now.
 
Caribou said:
The problem isn't the amount of water but the fact that people choose to live where water is scarce. A friend of mine was an engineer on the California Aqueduct which brings water into a region that can't water many people. People want green lawns in the desert. People want to farm the cheap desert lands. California wants to take the water in the dams and run it into the ocean in the middle of a drought to protect some tiny fish nobody heard of. The water today is generally cleaner than it was in past generations.

On example, villages would dump their sewage I the same river that they drank from. They might get the drinking water from up stream but the next village would get full advantage. Today they have sewage lagoons. Every spring and fall the uppermost village pumps their lagoon on a regular schedule. They know the speed of the river and as the sewage reaches the next village they start pumping, and so it goes all the way down the river. Everyone has their water stocked before this starts and they let it flush for a day or so after so as to clean the river. The Alaska rivers and streams dump more water into the ocean every day than the N. America continent uses. So does the Mississippi. If your worried about water, move there is plenty.
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Just gross!

It seems that there are other places that have not figured this out. Taking and giving to the same source is just gross. This has gone on for as long as humans have developed communities. Why not have a bunch of outhouses and require them for homes in more remote areas? In larger communities where things are still archaic (India), larger sewage systems could be developed. All those people who sit around and do nothing in so many areas could each shovel some dirt to create the needed infrastructure. Of course it is not as simple as that, but!

I know that certain standards are set by national groups (maybe think tanks?) in America , and then those get passed down to states, with certain funding, which in turn, pass it over to communities. My home town did not have storm cellars at a certain standard. A few years ago, they were no longer able to get certain funding unless or until they rectified that. They have a BIG annual celebration which always has a huge parade that was rerouted off of main street due to this major construction. The whole weekend was a mess because the main street was off limits. The parade, big barbecue, demolition derby, rodeo, car show, displays, concerts, programs, dances, class reunions, runs, everything, was interrupted. But, it is now done!
 
Weedygarden said:
Just gross!

It seems that there are other places that have not figured this out. Taking and giving to the same source is just gross. This has gone on for as long as humans have developed communities. Why not have a bunch of outhouses and require them for homes in more remote areas? In larger communities where things are still archaic (India), larger sewage systems could be developed. All those people who sit around and do nothing in so many areas could each shovel some dirt to create the needed infrastructure. Of course it is not as simple as that, but!

!
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Not as gross as it sounds and it leaves the the river clean except for a few days each year. In the balance it is a cleaner and healthier system. Outhouses are not a very good system in permafrost. The ground goes up and down every year from frost heave. Paved roads are like driving across a frozen rough sea. Part of the town I lived in had piped water and sewer. The pipes were above the ground heated and insulated so they wouldn't freeze. The rest of us had water tanks and yuck tanks.
 
Doesn't moisture fall out of the sky onto every place on earth? It is a matter of some places being ready to catch the rain, or resulting water from whatever happened. It rains more in some places than others, no doubt and capturing some of that moisture requires the ability and interest in doing so. Even the desert gets rain, and if you are prepared for it, you can capture it for your needs.

There are laws about what you can and cannot do for water and it varies from place to place. I do know in some places where ponds are not plentiful, farmers have dug outs, places where an area was dug out for water containment for their cattle to drink from. People used to have windmills to pump water from wells into stock tanks for the same purpose. Few still use that practice and most probably use solar for well pumps.
 
Weedy, your thoughts on catching the rain is very good but there are places that only get 1 inch of water a year. The Atacama Desert is one such place but there are others. They are typically on the leeward side of mountains at relatively high altitudes. One exception is the Sahara. Parts of it get 4 inches annually while other parts get less than an inch each year. It is very hard to save enough rain to live on with so little falling.
 
Yes, but most places have enough rain fall for a family of five, to live year around.
In South Carolina I get ten times that.
 
I would like to agree with you, Joel, although geography may not. I have always lived in places that have water in excess but a few miles from me there are places that don't.
I am very careful about the climates I choose to live in but not everyone is.
 
Where I live we average around 7.5 inches of rain a year. Most of that falls from November to February. June and July we rarely get measurable rain.
Without our irrigation system this entire area would be sagebrush and jack rabbits. No water means no crops which means no people needed to work the fields.
 
I forget his name or I'd provide a link but there is YouTuber that has a homestead in the desert. He collects off of every roof and has made water collection roof just above the ground. This seems a little nuts to me as for a few bucks more he could have a usable pole barn. He identified a low spot on his property and built a pond and routed his runoff towards the pond. His orchard is set up to collect water from higher ground and a short berm is placed around the trees so as to allow the water to soak in rather than run off when he waters them.

His water collection costs are gutters, pipes, and tanks primarily. Combined with a lot of sweat equity he has a viable system. He built most of this on his own without seeing many others and did very well all things considered. I've seen hundreds of water collection systems and built several so I have my own opinions but his works well.
 
Caribou said:
I forget his name or I'd provide a link but there is YouTuber that has a homestead in the desert. He collects off of every roof and has made water collection roof just above the ground. This seems a little nuts to me as for a few bucks more he could have a usable pole barn. He identified a low spot on his property and built a pond and routed his runoff towards the pond. His orchard is set up to collect water from higher ground and a short berm is placed around the trees so as to allow the water to soak in rather than run off when he waters them.

His water collection costs are gutters, pipes, and tanks primarily. Combined with a lot of sweat equity he has a viable system. He built most of this on his own without seeing many others and did very well all things considered. I've seen hundreds of water collection systems and built several so I have my own opinions but his works well.
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[I think I am wrong about it being this guy. I will post a link to the other guy, Joe of Homesteadonomics.]This is the man you are referring to. He has changed the name of his channel a few times, so that doesn't help. He is currently building a large metal building for a shop, equipment and more.

Yes, some places get little water.
 
Caribou said:
Not as gross as it sounds and it leaves the the river clean except for a few days each year. In the balance it is a cleaner and healthier system. Outhouses are not a very good system in permafrost. The ground goes up and down every year from frost heave. Paved roads are like driving across a frozen rough sea. Part of the town I lived in had piped water and sewer. The pipes were above the ground heated and insulated so they wouldn't freeze. The rest of us had water tanks and yuck tanks.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think I was wrong. I think it is this guy you are referring to.

 
Weedygarden said:
Oh, I think I was wrong. I think it is this guy you are referring to.

Click to expand...

I don't think they are the ones I was talking about but either one of them is as good. The one I saw had a sunken greenhouse and a stock pond. These two incorporated most of the ideas and are excellent.

My parents have an eight thousand gallon cistern and a 3,500 gallon backup cistern that is filled from the main overflow. They get 150"+ of rain and still run out with the two of them and occasional visitors. Not every year but some. The first one suggests 5-6,000 gallons to be adequate with40" of rain per year. That could work with enough roof area anon major dry period or with serious water conservation. We had a 5,000 gallon cistern when I was a kid so I know how to manage water and how long 5,000 gallons should last.

In the second video there was a plumb bob on the culvert cistern. That is a gauge. There is a float in the tank and a pulley at the top of the tank. When the the plumb bob is near the ground the tank is full, the higher it is the less water is in the tank.
 
Caribou said:
I don't think they are the ones I was talking about but either one of them is as good. The one I saw had a sunken greenhouse and a stock pond. These two incorporated most of the ideas and are excellent.

My parents have an eight thousand gallon cistern and a 3,500 gallon backup cistern that is filled from the main overflow. They get 150"+ of rain and still run out with the two of them and occasional visitors. Not every year but some. The first one suggests 5-6,000 gallons to be adequate with40" of rain per year. That could work with enough roof area anon major dry period or with serious water conservation. We had a 5,000 gallon cistern when I was a kid so I know how to manage water and how long 5,000 gallons should last.

In the second video there was a plumb bob on the culvert cistern. That is a gauge. There is a float in the tank and a pulley at the top of the tank. When the the plumb bob is near the ground the tank is full, the higher it is the less water is in the tank.
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It is great that more people are developing these systems. Joe of Homesteadonomics could probably add another large tank for overflow water. I believe both of these guys live in the area of Benson, Arizona, and they know each other.
 
I'd add at least two more tanks to the system and put it all under a roof. That would give him more catchment and keep the sun off the tanks which will make them last longer and keep the water cooler.
 
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