WOLVES...........

Homesteading & Country Living Forum

Help Support Homesteading & Country Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Sourdough

"Eleutheromaniac"
Neighbor
HCL Supporter
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
6,151
Location
In a cabin, on a mountain, in "Wilderness" Alaska.
]Large Wolf Packs

The over hundred wolves is the number I counted. My hunting partner counted more then I seen.. The wolves were mostly sleeping in the hot sun. Some of the wolves were with-in 50 yards sleeping, my rough guess is that the number sleeping or resting/laying down with-in 50 yards was about 20 or 25 wolves. A few were only about 20 or 30 yards away. They were not in the least alarmed. I will grant you that it may have been two different packs but I doubt it. I would also point out that the day before this I had shot a grizzly bear that was eating a fresh killed caribou. There was also another half eaten caribou near by.

I left the bear skin to be fleshed the next morning, at first light the next day when I returned to flesh the bear, all that was left of both caribou was a few bones the antlers, and some small pieces of hide. The Grizzly large for the area had been completely consumed, the hide was shredded to the point that all that was salvageable was a short necked head mount. I sat there for hours removing the skull and fleshing it, this is when the wolves started returning to the site. Most never came closer that about 50 yards, and as I said they (Some) lay there and watched me for more then three hours before moving off.

Also they never acted aggressively toward me, never growled, they seemed to be as interested in me as I was of them. I will admit that I was a bit fearful, they would get up and move but never closer, they remained a set distance. We had each shot two wolves a piece a few days earlier, but they were in a small pack a few valleys away. That hunt we were there for six weeks just the two of us. Bill would go one way from base camp for a few days, and I the other way for a few days, each with a minimal spike camp. The plane lunched a cylinder when it came to pick us up, and it took another week for them to get plane repaired.

This was in the Brooks Range in the early 70's. That area is now a National Park. Our total cost for everything was $330.00 for each of us. Cheap for six weeks in the wilderness. We did that same hunt in the same location two consecutive years in the early 70's. We each took Dall Sheep, Grizzly Bear and Caribou and the Wolves.
 
I did not know wolves had a hunting season in Alaska or are they considered varmints? Not a judgment just curious.

The easy and short answer is...... there is a hunting season for wolves. The long and not comprehendible answer (Even to LEO and the courts) is there are many different hunting seasons, depending on who you are, or where you live, or who's regulations you choose to fall under, and about five more factors.
 
The easy and short answer is...... there is a hunting season for wolves. The long and not comprehendible answer (Even to LEO and the courts) is there are many different hunting seasons, depending on who you are, or where you live, or who's regulations you choose to fall under, and about five more factors.

Thanks VP. I had not known there were hunting seasons for wolves. If they or roving dog packs stay out of range, then I don't have a problem with them. If they come within rifle range, then there may be some different results, depending on circumstances.
 
There is a very good reason our forefathers killed every wolf they saw and trapped as many as they could. They were true visionaries because they saw that the human population would continue to grow and the wolves were direct competitors for the same food that humans needed to survive.
 
Wolves are dedicated loyal animals. We had one when I was a child in Stoen Mountain. He was bigger than our dogs and got shot in the face with buckshot and snake bit too. Both times we rushed him to the vet and he sat up in front seat took most of the passenger side in our 1953 Chevy sedan. Someone from up north gave him to us.
His name was original Wolfy.
 
I had a pet wolf rised it like a dog with a dog had a neighbor complain so to keep the piece I put him on a runner when I was not home and he got wrapped up and strangled I will never put another animal on a runner.
 
I had a pet wolf rised it like a dog with a dog had a neighbor complain so to keep the piece I put him on a runner when I was not home and he got wrapped up and strangled I will never put another animal on a runner.

So sad V.P.. Wolves are like most dogs very loyal. I'm told they also mate for life . SheepDog pic looks a lot like our Wolfy did.
 
I'm not a wolf fan.
They introduced wolves in Yellowstone and what was the result............................

Wolf - elk.jpg
 
I'm not a wolf fan.
They introduced wolves in Yellowstone and what was the result............................

View attachment 11211

You do have a point about that Hiwall.
But sometimes when we kill off predators we weakened their prey. Culling is natural and if herds get too big they get disease or starve. So have to have happy medium.
Like here in Florida we have a problem with pythons because they have no natural enemy here and they are wiping out Floridas wildlife. I know its not the same but it is a problem.
 
You do have a point about that Hiwall.
But sometimes when we kill off predators we weakened their prey. Culling is natural and if herds get too big they get disease or starve. So have to have happy medium.
Like here in Florida we have a problem with pythons because they have no natural enemy here and they are wiping out Floridas wildlife. I know its not the same but it is a problem.
I am in Florida I am there predator
 
You do have a point about that Hiwall.
But sometimes when we kill off predators we weakened their prey. Culling is natural and if herds get too big they get disease or starve. So have to have happy medium.
Like here in Florida we have a problem with pythons because they have no natural enemy here and they are wiping out Floridas wildlife. I know its not the same but it is a problem.
It is the same. Wolves are apex predators. They hunt pretty much everything and are a big problem for ranchers and families in the areas they are in. Humans are their only danger and they are protected here. We aren't supposed to shoot them, even to protect our own livestock.
 
It is the same. Wolves are apex predators. They hunt pretty much everything and are a big problem for ranchers and families in the areas they are in. Humans are their only danger and they are protected here. We aren't supposed to shoot them, even to protect our own livestock.

I think everything has a right or place in this world, EXCEPT fire ants, lol.
Are you sure wolves have no natural predators, guess your right I haven't thought of that.
 
There were good and bad things, from our perspective about reintroduction of wolves.
After 100 years without the wolves around the deer and elk populations didn't recognize the wolf as a predator. The learning curve is a slow one and the deer and elk population suffered. The wolves fared very well . Now that there are fewer deer and elk, the brush near streams and rivers has come back and the fish population is doing much better and the stream are healthier. After the deer and elk recognize the wolves, their populations although smaller are beginning to bounce back. The wolf populations are less concentrated and they are spreading out to find adequate resources. It takes a while for nature to balance but it does a better job than we can. Even though wolves don't have natural predators for the adults there are control factors at work. Large eagles will take pups for food and when the rodent population goes down the wolves don't breed as much. They need a certain amount of rodents in their diet to breed.

We started the problem by eradicating the wolves. The deer and elk got lazy without predators and they overgrazed areas. The rodent population grew and that spread some diseases that infected the deer and elk populations so the game departments started introducing antibiotics and other medical care to increase the populations to sell more hunting licenses. Now that the wolves are back there may always be fewer deer and elk but they will be healthier and stronger animals. At some point the wolf populations will equalize and if we allow it nature will handle any imbalance in the future.
 
Are you sure wolves have no natural predators, guess your right I haven't thought of that.

The only "Natural" (using that loosely) predator of the Wolf is the Wolf. While that is an accurate statement, it really needs a fair amount of clarification.
 
There were good and bad things, from our perspective about reintroduction of wolves.
After 100 years without the wolves around the deer and elk populations didn't recognize the wolf as a predator. The learning curve is a slow one and the deer and elk population suffered. The wolves fared very well . Now that there are fewer deer and elk, the brush near streams and rivers has come back and the fish population is doing much better and the stream are healthier. After the deer and elk recognize the wolves, their populations although smaller are beginning to bounce back. The wolf populations are less concentrated and they are spreading out to find adequate resources. It takes a while for nature to balance but it does a better job than we can. Even though wolves don't have natural predators for the adults there are control factors at work. Large eagles will take pups for food and when the rodent population goes down the wolves don't breed as much. They need a certain amount of rodents in their diet to breed.

We started the problem by eradicating the wolves. The deer and elk got lazy without predators and they overgrazed areas. The rodent population grew and that spread some diseases that infected the deer and elk populations so the game departments started introducing antibiotics and other medical care to increase the populations to sell more hunting licenses. Now that the wolves are back there may always be fewer deer and elk but they will be healthier and stronger animals. At some point the wolf populations will equalize and if we allow it nature will handle any imbalance in the future.

Very good analysis SheepD.:)
 
Thanks Meerkat but the analysis isn't mine. It comes from the state fish and game as they open a season for wolves. They don't know how to keep there hands out of mother nature's business.
Right now the wolves have little fear of people because people have not been allowed to shoot them. They haven't learned to stay away from human populations - like the bears at state parks - so they are easy targets until they learn.

I know people who kill snakes just because they don't have legs and then complain about the mice and rats. They kill opossum as a pest and then wonder why the locusts and grasshoppers are so plentiful.
All you have to do is make it known to wildlife that there is a place that is dangerous to them and they learn to stay away. This works on all animals as that is how they stay alive. We are apex predators with no adversaries except for the larger apex predators with ignorant or stupid people. If we want a healthy environment we have to follow the same rules as the rest of the animals.
 
There were good and bad things, from our perspective about reintroduction of wolves.
After 100 years without the wolves around the deer and elk populations didn't recognize the wolf as a predator. The learning curve is a slow one and the deer and elk population suffered. The wolves fared very well . Now that there are fewer deer and elk, the brush near streams and rivers has come back and the fish population is doing much better and the stream are healthier. After the deer and elk recognize the wolves, their populations although smaller are beginning to bounce back. The wolf populations are less concentrated and they are spreading out to find adequate resources. It takes a while for nature to balance but it does a better job than we can. Even though wolves don't have natural predators for the adults there are control factors at work. Large eagles will take pups for food and when the rodent population goes down the wolves don't breed as much. They need a certain amount of rodents in their diet to breed.

We started the problem by eradicating the wolves. The deer and elk got lazy without predators and they overgrazed areas. The rodent population grew and that spread some diseases that infected the deer and elk populations so the game departments started introducing antibiotics and other medical care to increase the populations to sell more hunting licenses. Now that the wolves are back there may always be fewer deer and elk but they will be healthier and stronger animals. At some point the wolf populations will equalize and if we allow it nature will handle any imbalance in the future.
I 100% disagree.
For hundreds of years wolves and prey animals lived together. Everything was fine. Nature ruled and the populations of both prey and predator went up and down. But we don't live in that world anymore. And we can not live in that world anymore.
You cannot have larger populations of wolves and humans. You have to choose one or the other. After our forefathers finally after incredible effort eradicated the wolves some do-gooders (who did not live where the wolves would be) brought them back. Now we are stuck with the wolves for at least another hundred years.
 
You cannot have larger populations of wolves and humans. You have to choose one or the other.[/QUOTE]
.

I would greatly prefer low people population. And I will control the wolf population in my habitat. As I do now with Wolves and Bears.

"hiwall" I do understand your point, and agree with you. My problem is someone will get cranky if I control the people population. You only gave two options, but I would prefer no humans, and a few wolves.
 
Hiwall, you forgot that mankind and the wolves used to hunt together. The American Indians and wolves got along well. It is the wolf that we bred to become 95% of all dog breeds today.
Wolves are intelligent and will learn to stay out of mans way. In the past we invaded their territory to farm and raise animals. We were on their turf and instead of teaching them to move on or at least stay away from our animals we went out of our way to kill them all. Just like we did to buffalo, the great bears and cougars.
We can live in that way, there are plenty of people who do.
 
The Coyotes had filled the gap pretty well around here. They kept the rodent population down didn't really bother large livestock and even thought they will take a cat or small dog generally stay away from people. Fish and game is blaming everything they can on the mountain lions and coyotes now. I'm know a mountain lion can take a horse or a cow but I've never seen a Coyote that would be able to. They would have to run in packs to do that and that doesn't happen out here in the desert. They are solitary until breeding season. You may see a pair of males or a female with a couple of pups they don't run in packs.
 
Last edited:
I'm not a wolf fan.
They introduced wolves in Yellowstone and what was the result............................

View attachment 11211

Yellowstone was overpopulated with Elk -and coyotes - when wolves were 're-introduced' (that's the story I got). Those overpopulations no longer exist.
 
Hiwall, you forgot that mankind and the wolves used to hunt together. The American Indians and wolves got along well. It is the wolf that we bred to become 95% of all dog breeds today.
Wolves are intelligent and will learn to stay out of mans way. In the past we invaded their territory to farm and raise animals. We were on their turf and instead of teaching them to move on or at least stay away from our animals we went out of our way to kill them all. Just like we did to buffalo, the great bears and cougars.
We can live in that way, there are plenty of people who do.
Except there were only around 10 million Indians then and now we have well over 300 million citizens. Ask my neighbor how the wolves and beef cows get along together.
Also in many or most states the state Fish and Game departments get their money from hunting license fees. If the wolves eat the deer, elk, and moose the F&G cannot sell licenses so their money drops dramatically, so then they get it from the taxpayers.
In many rural areas where the wolves were transplanted the people living there hate the wolves.
A wolf needs at least 7 pounds of meat per day, every day. When available they eat 2 or even 3 times that much. Wolves do not have pressure canners to can and store their meat so they must kill often. When they kill the pack gorges on the kill and then any left is usually eaten by other animals and birds. Then the wolves kill again.
Just look at the chart of the elk population in Yellowstone. The elk population now is a tiny fraction of what it once was thanks to the wolves. If there was an over-population then the park service should have sold hunting licenses to remove the excess. That way the Park service would have had complete control of the population. Now they have zero control.
In Sunlight basin near Yellowstone the wolves completely killed all the moose in that area. All the moose. There is no future recovery when every one is dead.
The wolves they transplanted into Yellowstone have increased in population dramatically and have now expanded out for hundreds of miles. And all those wolves have to eat every single day.
 
Hiwall, you forgot that mankind and the wolves used to hunt together. The American Indians and wolves got along well. It is the wolf that we bred to become 95% of all dog breeds today.
Wolves are intelligent and will learn to stay out of mans way. In the past we invaded their territory to farm and raise animals. We were on their turf and instead of teaching them to move on or at least stay away from our animals we went out of our way to kill them all. Just like we did to buffalo, the great bears and cougars.
We can live in that way, there are plenty of people who do.

The domesticated wolf theory has been distinctly modified now. The experts now believe that the canines known as pariah dogs, who hung around hunter-gatherer middens, were the progenitors of most domestic dogs. Their relationship to wolves is unclear to me.
 
Sorry if I started to rant.
I have been close to wolves in several places in the USA. When I lived in Minnesota there were wolves there and they expanded.
I have have spent a lot of time in northwest Wyoming with family members living there and I have hunted there for many years and they put wolves there.
Now I am in Arizona and I have them at my place. And I mean right in my yard.

I understand many things about wolves because of 50 years of contact with them. I will drop out of this debate because you all know my stance on the issue and I have little more to add. I do understand the other side of this issue. I actually used to think that re-introducing wolves would be a natural thing to do. But I soon changed my mind. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings by coming on too strong ( though I know many have thick skins like me :))
 

Latest posts

Back
Top