“Dry” Battery Storage

[Searunner]

Would anyone happen to know how long a “dry” 6v deep cycle battery [ ie - one that has not been activated with battery acid] will last in storage? I am in the process (very slowly) of putting together a double bank 48vdc storage system using 6 volt deep cycle batteries for my eventual off-grid homestead and want to build my battery banks without having them degrade while in storage. Any info greatly appreciated

 

[phideaux]

Welcome to the forum.

Jim

 

[Meerkat]

Would anyone happen to know how long a “dry” 6v deep cycle battery [ ie - one that has not been activated with battery acid] will last in storage? I am in the process (very slowly) of putting together a double bank 48vdc storage system using 6 volt deep cycle batteries for my eventual off-grid homestead and want to build my battery banks without having them degrade while in storage. Any info greatly appreciated

Welcome and tell us something about yourself.

 

[Meerkat]

Lots of people here to help with this question I'm just not one of them,so I'll bump your post up.

 

[UrbanHunter]

Welcome,

Would anyone happen to know how long a “dry” 6v deep cycle battery [ ie - one that has not been activated with battery acid] will last in storage? I am in the process (very slowly) of putting together a double bank 48vdc storage system using 6 volt deep cycle batteries for my eventual off-grid homestead and want to build my battery banks without having them degrade while in storage. Any info greatly appreciated

Way back in the day (1970s) batteries were delivered dry. We stored them by the pallet and when we sold or needed one, took it off the pallet, added acid solution (they used to provide in bag/boxes) and then charge them fully. As long as there has been no liquid in the battery and it is not too humid the batteries should last for many years dry (Decade +). The concern would be corrosion of the plates inside the battery, but that forms on the outside of the lead plate and is a very thin film that should be removed by the fresh acid and charging. Back then there was a warranty, but it was from the date the battery was filled and sold. I do remember having more trouble with the acid eating the box and leaking than with keeping the batterys in storage.

 

[Neb]

Welcome,



Way back in the day (1970s) batteries were delivered dry. We stored them by the pallet and when we sold or needed one, took it off the pallet, added acid solution (they used to provide in bag/boxes) and then charge them fully. As long as there has been no liquid in the battery and it is not too humid the batteries should last for many years dry (Decade +). The concern would be corrosion of the plates inside the battery, but that forms on the outside of the lead plate and is a very thin film that should be removed by the fresh acid and charging. Back then there was a warranty, but it was from the date the battery was filled and sold. I do remember having more trouble with the acid eating the box and leaking than with keeping the batterys in storage.

Ditto what @UrbanHunter said.

Ben

 

[Meerkat]

See we got some wise folks here to the rescue,

 

[Supervisor42]

...Way back in the day (1970s) batteries were delivered dry. We stored them by the pallet and when we sold or needed one, took it off the pallet, added acid solution (they used to provide in bag/boxes) and then charge them fully. As long as there has been no liquid in the battery and it is not too humid the batteries should last for many years dry (Decade +). The concern would be corrosion of the plates inside the battery, but that forms on the outside of the lead plate and is a very thin film that should be removed by the fresh acid and charging.

Exactly. I would just wrap them in shrink-wrap to keep the humidity out of them until they will be used and they will be fine.
Much better to buy them now instead of later. Regulations are adding more to their cost yearly.

 

[Searunner]

My thanks Urban Hunter, Neb, and Supervisor 42 for responding to my initial post. I was fairly certain that dry batteries would keep for a substantial amount of time, but I make a concerted effort never to assume anything because invariably it comes back and bites one.
For Meerkat: I am currently “retired” having served in the USMC, as a Children’s Librarian, Public Library Director, and an OTR Truck Driver. I have also been a commercial fisherman and a volunteer firefighter. I am single, having divorced from “She Who Shall Not Named” six years ago after 32 years, and I am finally in a position where I can start rebuilding - something I plan to begin in the latter part of this coming summer on a piece of desert in West Texas.

 

[Patchouli]

Welcome to the forum, Searunner.

 

[Searunner]

Welcome to the forum, Searunner.

Thanks

 

[Meerkat]

My thanks Urban Hunter, Neb, and Supervisor 42 for responding to my initial post. I was fairly certain that dry batteries would keep for a substantial amount of time, but I make a concerted effort never to assume anything because invariably it comes back and bites one.
For Meerkat: I am currently “retired” having served in the USMC, as a Children’s Librarian, Public Library Director, and an OTR Truck Driver. I have also been a commercial fisherman and a volunteer firefighter. I am single, having divorced from “She Who Shall Not Named” six years ago after 32 years, and I am finally in a position where I can start rebuilding - something I plan to begin in the latter part of this coming summer on a piece of desert in West Texas.

Searunner, sounds like you've had an good life,thank you for your service .

Mr.Meer and I love the ocean too.

 

[Supervisor42]

My thanks Urban Hunter, Neb, and Supervisor 42 for responding to my initial post. I was fairly certain that dry batteries would keep for a substantial amount of time, but I make a concerted effort never to assume anything because invariably it comes back and bites one.
For Meerkat: I am currently “retired” having served in the USMC, as a Children’s Librarian, Public Library Director, and an OTR Truck Driver. I have also been a commercial fisherman and a volunteer firefighter. I am single, having divorced from “She Who Shall Not Named” six years ago after 32 years, and I am finally in a position where I can start rebuilding - something I plan to begin in the latter part of this coming summer on a piece of desert in West Texas.

Much knowledge awaits here.
Solar array info, stuff about MOSFETS, TRIACS, SCRs, IGBTs, battery maintenance. cabling, voltage and specific gravity tables, are here.
Welcome to the 'hive' .
Ps. Congrats on the divorce. My priest told me that a good marriage can last a lifetime.....but a good divorce can last an ETERNITY!

 

[Caribou]

The battery should keep indefinitely. I'm unsure how long a carboy of acid will keep. The problem you may have is finding the dry batteries. I tried 3 or 4 years ago to buy these batteries and the local manufacturer said they no longer made them. The process to make wet cell batteries was different whether they came off the line wet or dry. Hope you have better luck.

 

[Neb]

Much knowledge awaits here.
Solar array info, stuff about MOSFETS, TRIACS, SCRs, IGBTs, battery maintenance. cabling, voltage and specific gravity tables, are here.
Welcome to the 'hive' .
Ps. Congrats on the divorce. My priest told me that a good marriage can last a lifetime.....but a good divorce can last an ETERNITY!

Ditto that!
.
My first wife was only dragged me down into a vortex that was hard to escape. My second was a blessing that exploited our natures behind my wildest dreams..

Ben

 

[viking]

Exactly. I would just wrap them in shrink-wrap to keep the humidity out of them until they will be used and they will be fine.
Much better to buy them now instead of later. Regulations are adding more to their cost yearly.

It's crossed my mind to do this, I just haven't checked into getting sulfuric acid to have on hand, since lead-acid batteries do have a certain life span and I have 20 six volt golf cart batteries in our solar backup system, I have considered doing this very thing. Yeah years ago I bought car batteries that came dry, along with a jug of sulfuric acid, now days there is always a big fear that we're going to hurt ourselves if we handle dangerous materials unless we get licensed by going to classes on how to handle acids, dynamite, or many other hazardous things, thing is I'm now 78 and in very good health and have handled a lot of those things. It's certainly something to consider.

 

[viking]

I suppose one could set up a system of draining batteries and storing the acid in heavy duty plastic containers, the batteries would have to be rinsed out and dried, I'm pretty sure that could be done. I've heard stories of people draining batteries and rinsing out sediment and then replacing the acid, the story is that this will extend the life of those batteries by many years when the sediment is cleared out from under the cell plates.

 

[UrbanHunter]

I suppose one could set up a system of draining batteries and storing the acid in heavy duty plastic containers, the batteries would have to be rinsed out and dried, I'm pretty sure that could be done. I've heard stories of people draining batteries and rinsing out sediment and then replacing the acid, the story is that this will extend the life of those batteries by many years when the sediment is cleared out from under the cell plates.

That would be in line in with what I was told about batteries from an AC/DELCO instructor years ago, the long life batteries had a larger space at the bottom to catch the debris and sludge that eventually flaks off the plates and will short out the cells (rendering the battery useless). I never thought of trying to wash the crap out and "reset" the battery

 

[UrbanHunter]

Here is a link with more interresting battery stuff:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/

 

[SheepDog]

I am considering liquid metal batteries. There is rising technology that makes them much better for stationary use. No plates or separators to go bad and after 10000 cycles they still have 100% capacity.

 

[Neb]

I am considering liquid metal batteries. There is rising technology that makes them much better for stationary use. No plates or separators to go bad and after 10000 cycles they still have 100% capacity.

I read a little about them but the article was not technical for me. Did they use some element that is costly?

The article indicated they could be used for solar farms to compensate for when there was little sun?

Ben

 

[Supervisor42]

I am considering liquid metal batteries. There is rising technology that makes them much better for stationary use. No plates or separators to go bad and after 10000 cycles they still have 100% capacity.

Hopefully they will be better than AGM and Gel-cell batteries. Those were hailed as MF batteries (meaning maintenance-free, the other definition became quickly apparent later).
Batteries have always been up against the cost-verses-energy density-verses-durability challenge.
New versions usually excel in one or two areas, but not all 3.
If you get some newer technology batteries, we would love to hear your experience.
Still plenty of room for improvement in batteries.

 

[Searunner]

I am considering liquid metal batteries. There is rising technology that makes them much better for stationary use. No plates or separators to go bad and after 10000 cycles they still have 100% capacity.

While certainly attractive from a storage and life cycle perspective I have to wonder as to the initial cost and how long it will be before such batteries are common enough to be readily available. My other concern is the amount of heat generated - it could be a real boon during the winter, but I would imagine it could really cause problems during the summer unless you had some efficient way to dump the excess heat.

 

[SheepDog]

Here is the one I believe will be the best solution:
The battery is based on research conducted by co-founder Donald Sadoway at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The system is different from other storage options on the market because it is the only battery where all three active components are in liquid form when the battery operates. Two liquid electrodes (magnesium and antimony) are separated by a molten salt electrolyte; the liquid layers float on top of each other based on density differences and immiscibility. The system operates at an elevated temperature maintained by self-heating during charging and discharging, resulting in a low-cost and long-lasting storage system.
The materials are both readily available world wide and inexpensive to prepare for use. There are also a number of equally efficient alternatives for the elements used.

 

[SheepDog]

While certainly attractive from a storage and life cycle perspective I have to wonder as to the initial cost and how long it will be before such batteries are common enough to be readily available. My other concern is the amount of heat generated - it could be a real boon during the winter, but I would imagine it could really cause problems during the summer unless you had some efficient way to dump the excess heat.

The heat is held in the battery case to promote the capacity of the battery. It is well insulated to prevent heat loss. That is the reason that these batteries are slated for in place use. They are too heavy to operate in a mobile unit.

 

[Searunner]

Here is the one I believe will be the best solution:
The battery is based on research conducted by co-founder Donald Sadoway at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The system is different from other storage options on the market because it is the only battery where all three active components are in liquid form when the battery operates. Two liquid electrodes (magnesium and antimony) are separated by a molten salt electrolyte; the liquid layers float on top of each other based on density differences and immiscibility. The system operates at an elevated temperature maintained by self-heating during charging and discharging, resulting in a low-cost and long-lasting storage system.
The materials are both readily available world wide and inexpensive to prepare for use. There are also a number of equally efficient alternatives for the elements used.

Do you have a link for this?

 

[viking]

Hopefully they will be better than AGM and Gel-cell batteries. Those were hailed as MF batteries (meaning maintenance-free, the other definition became quickly apparent later).
Batteries have always been up against the cost-verses-energy density-verses-durability challenge.
New versions usually excel in one or two areas, but not all 3.
If you get some newer technology batteries, we would love to hear your experience.
Still plenty of room for improvement in batteries.

Cost and development are the things that keep use old timers going to lead/acid batteries, I happen to believe that there is a need for further improvement before I would jump on the newer high tech battery band wagon, cost is also a consideration as well. As it is, there are issues with AGM and Gel-cell batteries and the charge systems that I have and that's because of the equalizing system that I use to help keep lead/acid batteries in their best condition is not compatible for those types of batteries. There are ways that I can deal with failing older batteries since I have four batteries per bank, I have found that if I have a failure of a battery I can replace one of the batteries in each of the five banks with new batteries, this keeps the charge system in balance, I've done this on our motorhome solar system and it worked very well.

 

[SheepDog]

Do you have a link for this?

Searunner, click on the "Massachusetts Institute of Technology" in my post. It will link you to an article.
You can also go HERE for a link to the spin-off business.

 

[SheepDog]

Cost and development are the things that keep use old timers going to lead/acid batteries, I happen to believe that there is a need for further improvement before I would jump on the newer high tech battery band wagon, cost is also a consideration as well. As it is, there are issues with AGM and Gel-cell batteries and the charge systems that I have and that's because of the equalizing system that I use to help keep lead/acid batteries in their best condition is not compatible for those types of batteries. There are ways that I can deal with failing older batteries since I have four batteries per bank, I have found that if I have a failure of a battery I can replace one of the batteries in each of the five banks with new batteries, this keeps the charge system in balance, I've done this on our motorhome solar system and it worked very well.

Viking,
Right now the installed cost is at $100 per KwH which is on par with the best prices for Lithium batteries. The difference is the lithium batteries have a life of 10 years until the performance drops to below 80% while the liquid metal batteries have no degradation after 50 years. The only con on these batteries is that they are best when used often. If they sit for more than a week or so they have to be force charged to get the metal back into a liquid state. They get their heat from the discharge and recharge cycle. I'm thinking that multiple smaller banks will be better suited to an off grid home while one bank would be fine for large supply systems like a factory or a town. Automatic switching between banks would keep them cycling and ready for use.

 

[viking]

I need to set a monthly draw down to exercise the battery bank more often, as it is the solar controller automatically goes through an equalizing cycle which raises the charge voltage above normal for a short period of time, according to the information available, this resuspends the proper electrolyte mixture as it de-sulfates the cell plates, if I had AGM batteries I couldn't run a full bore equalize cycle because they are sealed and could blow the top off and I don't believe Gel-Cells would take an equalizing and I've seen some quality issues with some of the newer Gel-Cell batteries, so in the mean time I'm old fashioned and will stick with the old tech lead-acid batteries, who knows what the future will bring, perhaps in the years ahead, lead will be banned due to it's toxicity, even though it's rather common in nature.