Adapting a gas generator for use inside a building without killing myself

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Neb

Neb

Jack of all trades master of some
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I have gas generator similar to this one.

59206_W3.jpg


From Harbor Freight that is not intended for use inside due to the exhaust gas. But if I figure out how t o plumb the exhaust and intake through the wall from outside I could add some security and wouldn't have go outside in deep snow to start it.

So...

Do any of you have experience and/or ideas how I could run a generator inside?

Thank you.

Ben
 
I would have a generator shed, with a steel door, accessed through the garage. Plumb the exhaust through the wall well away from any doors or windows. CO detectors in both the garage and generator room. Fresh air vent for combustion air, again well away from the exhaust vent.

If you are worried about noise, you could exhaust through a chimney and direct the noise upward. What you want is doable but you need to be cautious with the exhaust. Your current wood, gas, or diesel heating system has the same concerns.
 
Neb said:
In this basement room.

View attachment 84030

Cinder block and terracotta block walls. Concrete floor and ceiling.

Ben
Click to expand...
I'd cut a door into a small attached cinder block gen shed, with no exterior door and no windows.
 
Ben,
You need to make sure there is a good barrier to keep the fumes out of your living space. Cinder blocks will let fumes propagate into your living space.
 
Neb said:
Nice idea!

I could build a cinder block room in the corner of the room.

Ben
Click to expand...
Make sure the walls and ceiling have a non permeable barrier. You don't want any CO finding its way into the rest of the house. I imagine a 4" vent close to the carb would provide adequate ventilation.
 
Working around vibration will be tricky. Gas generators always vibrate. On that thought, old gas will cause one to skip and sputter occasionally. This causes even more shaking and engine movement.

The exhaust pipe and carb are bolted to the engine and vibrate (move) with it.

Your extended intake and exhaust? A 1/4 inch of movement at the engine equals how much 6ft away? Several inches? Long extensions would need to be supported in some manner but it can't be rigid, as in bolted to a wall or joist.

If it's flexible hose of some type then there will always be a risk of leaks. Flex hose/pipe are made to move but not for constant vibration/movement. I'm sure someone makes something that will work but at what $$?

I'd consider and outside enclosure but move the control panel inside the basement. But then it'd take two people to troubleshoot an issue. One outside with the generator and one inside to press the electric start?
 
Caribou said:
Make sure the walls and ceiling have a non permeable barrier. You don't want any CO finding its way into the rest of the house. I imagine a 4" vent close to the carb would provide adequate ventilation.
Click to expand...
Grumble, grumble. :confused: Even a small gas engine running for hours in an enclosed outside space will build up a lethal amount of CO inside it if it has even a pinhole leak in the exhaust system going outside.
Every year during hurricane season, we have more deaths from CO than the storm itself.
Don't be one of us:confused:. I'm not saying it can't be done safely, it can.
If it is in an attached building, ventilated means a 6" gap under the roof.
The end of the exhaust piping needs to be at least 10-feet above ground level too.
 
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My former employer had a generator in the garage attached to the main business office. Fresh air louvers would open on generator start. Exhaust was piped outside. My office was the closest and the only time I smelled fumes is when a vehicle was left running inside the garage.
 
Caribou said:
Make sure the walls and ceiling have a non permeable barrier. You don't want any CO finding its way into the rest of the house. I imagine a 4" vent close to the carb would provide adequate ventilation.
Click to expand...
A lot of great insight here helping me not to kill myself. :thumbs:

A non permeable barrier is a challenge unto itself!

CO detectors with auxiliary contacts are something I need to chase down.

Thank you for the 4" vent suggestion. I'll take that as a data point.

Thank you!

Ben
 
Peanut said:
Working around vibration will be tricky. Gas generators always vibrate. On that thought, old gas will cause one to skip and sputter occasionally. This causes even more shaking and engine movement.

The exhaust pipe and carb are bolted to the engine and vibrate (move) with it.

Your extended intake and exhaust? A 1/4 inch of movement at the engine equals how much 6ft away? Several inches? Long extensions would need to be supported in some manner but it can't be rigid, as in bolted to a wall or joist.

If it's flexible hose of some type then there will always be a risk of leaks. Flex hose/pipe are made to move but not for constant vibration/movement. I'm sure someone makes something that will work but at what $$?

I'd consider and outside enclosure but move the control panel inside the basement. But then it'd take two people to troubleshoot an issue. One outside with the generator and one inside to press the electric start?
Click to expand...
Now there is an epiphany!

Just beyond the far wall that I had considered penetrating with vent and exhaust is a shed under a deck. I could build enclosure under the deck... effectively outside... nullifying this thread...:confused2:

But... ben says... I would have to sound proof more than if it was inside?

Being outside I could minimize the exhaust to maybe additional muffler and eliminate any interaction between the vibrations and the fixed structure.

Lastly

Depending on the implementation of the control panel I could add an auxiliary start button.

Sorry another thought...

I could store the fuel in the same shed with good ventilation because the walls have 1/4 in gaps between boards.

So sound proofing and extra muffler are issue to resolve.

Ben
 
Supervisor42 said:
Grumble, grumble. :confused: Even a small gas engine running for hours in an enclosed outside space will build up a lethal amount of CO inside it if it has even a pinhole leak in the exhaust system going outside.
Every year during hurricane season, we have more deaths from CO than the storm itself.
Don't be one of us:confused:. I'm not saying it can't be done safely, it can.
If it is in an attached building, ventilated means a 6" gap under the roof.
The end of the exhaust piping needs to be at least 10-feet above ground level too.
Click to expand...
Thank you @Supervisor42 .

Going with an external micro-structure looks like the way to go. Bonus it gives me more room in the basement.

Q for you

10' exhaust height.

I understand ...

The solution to pollution is dilution

For an emergency generator, is that a requirement?

Ben
 
The Lazy L said:
My former employer had a generator in the garage attached to the main business office. Fresh air louvers would open on generator start. Exhaust was piped outside. My office was the closest and the only time I smelled fumes is when a vehicle was left running inside the garage.
Click to expand...
Did you work in the same building I worked in?;)

Similarly there was a 6 cylinder engine driving a generator with louvers as you mentioned. I vaguely remember a small gap between the exhaust pipe as it passed through the wall.

Ben
 
Neb said:
Thank you @Supervisor42 .

Going with an external micro-structure looks like the way to go. Bonus it gives me more room in the basement.

Q for you

10' exhaust height.

I understand ...

The solution to pollution is dilution

For an emergency generator, is that a requirement?

Ben
Click to expand...
Not a requirement. Just what I have seen. Keeps CO out of the picture.
It will also eliminate the need for an additional muffler. You would be surprised how much noise you can blast up there and people barely hear (like a 4-53 Detroit diesel running full bore). No smell, no sound.
As for "requirements" every book that comes with a genset will tell you to only run it 10 feet away from a house :rolleyes:.
You, and everybody else, have found out, that this is not practical.:confused:
 
Do NOT forget about heat & heat build up when an engine runs in a small space. Vibration and noise are going to be the larger issues. Plumbing air / exhaust is easy.
 
Biggkidd said:
Do NOT forget about heat & heat build up when an engine runs in a small space. Vibration and noise are going to be the larger issues. Plumbing air / exhaust is easy.
Click to expand...
Yes, they all are air-cooled. (I forgot about that little nugget).
They blast out hot air when running and need air for more than just the air intake.
 
A proper exhaust exit is fairly hard to do but a vertical pipe that will hold some heat will cause a draft, and help to direct the fumes up, the better sealed the more heat that will transfer, for instance if you were to use a1 1/2 id'' exhaust tube, centered in a 2 1/2'' id exhaust tube, the inner tube would retain heat and thus cause draft to basicly suck the exhaust out, the outer tube would not get nearly as hot, and it would only need a air gaped guard tube where it passed near flammables, or to protect people or pets.
 
Ben, did you see the post about USN prairie masker system? Sound dampening for war ships? If noise and heat is a concern… maybe a water mist system from your spring? Noise source thru air thru water, prairie masker, you have the parts of it anyway. 😁

If it's summer a little cooling would help.
 
Tirediron said:
A proper exhaust exit is fairly hard to do but a vertical pipe that will hold some heat will cause a draft, and help to direct the fumes up, the better sealed the more heat that will transfer, for instance if you were to use a1 1/2 id'' exhaust tube, centered in a 2 1/2'' id exhaust tube, the inner tube would retain heat and thus cause draft to basicly suck the exhaust out, the outer tube would not get nearly as hot, and it would only need a air gaped guard tube where it passed near flammables, or to protect people or pets.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes! It may seem like overkill (CO pun) but every indoor power-set I remember had a pipe-in-a-pipe setup. I talked about the above-roof exhaust setups already and why.
Enclosed engines...
I barely remember this one, but it stuck. On the roof was the same thing you would see above anybody's wood heater. <yawn>
Me: "Is it running?" Him: "Yep"
I opened the door to the 'engine-room' and was greeted by the roar of a 318 Chrysler V8 running a huge pump and it was above half throttle :oops:.
The exhaust pipe was inside a 6" pipe like a wood heater going up the wall.
There was a bump on my arm, and the guy was holding earmuffs out.:eyeballs:
Ben's setup won't need to be near as serious, but a single naked pipe run thru the wall won't do.
 
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Like all engines air cooled engines pull air through for cooling. There's no reason you couldn't create a tight box around it pulling air though the blower fan on the flywheel. Let the heated air go out through the outer pipe of the double wall exhaust. Shouldn't even require any additional cooling as long as it's airtight other than the one entry point through the fan. The air filter could be inside the fresh air intake for cooling. This will also serve to cut way down on the noise factor.
 
I must have been drinking too much soda this morning. I had this crazy vision of a walk out deck from @Neb's attic, when you need power start the generator and pull it out on the deck (or built it on a set of rails or beam trolley like the the barns have to fill the hay loft.), 2 stories up in the air what self respecting thief is going to climb up there.

Sorry, I'm going to climb back under my rock... ;)
 
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