All lithium, all the time?

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50ShadesOfDirt

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Alkaline, NI-CD/NI-MH, etc ... purchasing in huge quantities, multiple chargers stacking up ... all problems. At our homestead, we have moved away from all of that older tech, and towards lithium. This seems to be the low-hanging fruit?

Many of our newer devices (ie, HT Radios) come now with lithium packs, our electric powertool-line is lithium, and our off-grid homestead in its entirety is LiFePO4.

For those older devices that still have AA/AAA/C/D slots, amazingly, lithium in that form factor now seems readily available. This will help us on the path to getting more life out of, but ultimately jettisoning the older tech devices, and replacing with newer tech (similar device, but tech refreshed to newer model with lithium packs).

There may still be some edge cases where you have to have another chemistry, but in ours (southern rockies at elevation, still plenty cold), we've already got "warm buildings" (we don't want any outbuilding at freezing or lower), and thus no charging problems with lithium. Also, few use cases where we aren't successful with lithium AA/AAA/C/D replacement batteries, or portable AC power schemes (powertool-line inverter & batttery packs).

Is this working out the same way for others, or is it at least on your radar?
 
We still use Alkaline batteries. We stocked up and have enough to last several years. There are places I use lithium like power tools, the weather station on the roof so I don't have to climb up to change batteries for a few years, and flashlights that are not used very much.
My biggest change was going to LED lights. Much less power consumption in battery devices and a lower cost for house lighting.
 
I love much about lithium, but they perform horribly in extreme cold weather. I am adding to my lithium based preps, but when you need to deal with extreme cold, you need other technologies.
 
My computers are the only things I own with lithium batteries. My flashlights and rocket launch controller use 6 volt lantern batteries. My car uses a 12 lead acid battery.
 
We still use Alkaline batteries. We stocked up and have enough to last several years. There are places I use lithium like power tools, the weather station on the roof so I don't have to climb up to change batteries for a few years, and flashlights that are not used very much.
My biggest change was going to LED lights. Much less power consumption in battery devices and a lower cost for house lighting.
I think the biggest change you will notice changing from alkaline to lithium is the lack of green fungus growing on the negative end of alkaline batteries.
I don't think there is anybody on the planet that hasn't removed a cover on a seldom-used device only to be horrified at the corroded battery contacts rendering the device useless.:mad:
This does not happen with lithium.
And if you are a math nerd, if lithium batteries cost 3 times as much as alkaline but last 5 times as long, which is the more expensive battery in the long run? YMMV.
Edit: or is this you?
Battery-Corrosion-940x705


the-battery-compartment-of-an-electronic-device-with-extreme-case-of-alkaline-battery-corrosion-lr6aa15a-T4CMCX.jpg
 
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In the last few years Duracell batteries have gone way down in quality, in all the years I've been using them, they never got leaky like they do now, Eveready batteries have been leakers for a number of years, I even called them up on that problem and they claimed they were still the best available, about the only Eveready battery I use anymore is a CR123, yeah it's lithium.
 
For those older devices that still have AA/AAA/C/D slots, amazingly, lithium in that form factor now seems readily available. This will help us on the path to getting more life out of, but ultimately jettisoning the older tech device
Note that a Li-Ion cell is 3.7 volts, as compared to Alkaline at 1.5 volts and NiMH and NiCD at 1.2 volts. While Alkaline/NiMH/NiCD are interchangeable for the most part, Li-Ion cannot be used in those devices unless they are designed to handle the higher voltage. Do not confuse the Li-Ion (rechargeable technology, 3.7 volts) with "primary lithium" cells (primary lithium cells are not rechargeable, but they can be 1.5 volts, thus compatible with Alkaline/NiMH/NiCD devices).

Each different battery technology has it's pluses and minuses, so I don't see any reason to throw out some technologies and use one technology exclusively.

Lithium batteries (both primary and rechargeable technologies) are more expensive. Li-Ion needs a special charger. Li-Ion needs protection circuity to avoid over charging or over discharging (which can cause fires). NiCD have the memory effect and pretty high self-discharge, but they have good cold weather performance - significantly better than NiMH or Li-Ion. NiMH have better energy density than NiCD, but not as good as Lithium. NiMH's self-discharge too, but the Eneloop brand has made that less of a problem (Eneloops generally trade off higher energy density for lower self-discharge).

I personally don't have a use case for NiCD's, so I don't use those. Other's may have the cold weather need however. Alkalines are my long term backups (they will last many years if not used). I also use alkalines in daily-use devices where they won't sit in a half-charged/half-used state prone to leakage. Things like my main computer's mouse are OK with alkalines. So is my main TV remote control (used daily), but not the other device remote controls (like my DVD player remote that gets used once every three years!) Alkalines are only for things that are not going to sit there unused for a long period of time and experience battery leakage. I use Li-Ion on all devices that will accept their higher voltage (in my case, that is mostly high end flashlights and computer stuff). NiMH goes in just about everything else because of it's higher capacity than Alkaline and low cost. I have only a few primary lithium uses - e.g., a rifle or shotgun mounted light that very rarely gets used, but I want to be there working when/if I do need it. For things like those gun lights, I stick with lights that use two CR123's for example.
 
In the last few years Duracell batteries have gone way down in quality...
For alkalines, I use the Costco ones. They are cheaper than the Duracells and Energizers, and as best I can tell, they work every bit as good. You gotta buy a package containing a ton of them though. But the Costco 50-pack probably costs the same as the Duracell 10-pack. I treat ALL alkalines as leakers. If I have an alkaline powered sporadically used device that is not critical (e.g., my stick-on label printer), those alkalines are kept on the outside of the device, attached to it with a rubber band or two.
 
On amazon, a quick search brings up 1.5v lithium-ion "D" size rechargeable batteries ... usb recharge port, so no external charger is even needed. EBL is one such vendor?

I don't know how the magic works, but am guessing that internal circuitry gets the output to 1.5v (for use in older devices), while still retaining lithium properties (flat discharge curve, 1000+ cycles). Maybe there are some disassembly videos to peer inside ...

It SEEMS like this could be a "D" cell lithium replacement strategy.
 
On amazon, a quick search brings up 1.5v lithium-ion "D" size rechargeable batteries ... usb recharge port, so no external charger is even needed. EBL is one such vendor?

I don't know how the magic works, but am guessing that internal circuitry gets the output to 1.5v (for use in older devices), while still retaining lithium properties (flat discharge curve, 1000+ cycles). Maybe there are some disassembly videos to peer inside ...

It SEEMS like this could be a "D" cell lithium replacement strategy.

Those rechargeable lithium D cells look to have a lithium cell, two DC to DC converters, charge controller and protection circuits inside each unit. They can be charged via micro USB (so you could charge them directly from a portable solar panel with a conversion cable).

That is a lot of stuff to cram in there......consequently they are quite expensive and rated around 9000mWhr - ie about half the power of a conventional D cell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery
 
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Those rechargeable lithium D cells look to have a lithium cell, DC to DC converter, charge controller and protection circuits inside each unit. They can be charged via micro USB (so you could charge them directly from a portable solar panel with a conversion cable).

That is a lot of stuff to cram in there......consequently they are quite expensive and rated around 9000mWhr - ie about half the power of a conventional D cell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery
I also have to question how long those would hold a charge.

I have a converter to use 20V lithium batteries in an old Dewalt 18V drill. The 20V batteries alone hold the charge great but if I leave a 20V battery in the adapter it is dead the next time I use it. I just guessed the converter was a loaf on the battery.

Ben
 
I also have to question how long those would hold a charge.

I have a converter to use 20V lithium batteries in an old Dewalt 18V drill. The 20V batteries alone hold the charge great but if I leave a 20V battery in the adapter it is dead the next time I use it. I just guessed the converter was a loaf on the battery.

Ben

Yep - that is known as parasitic load (resulting in self discharge).

I would also be a bit concerned with the complexity of those D cells - if one bit of the system in each quits - it is curtains for the unit.

I love LiFePO4 batteries for many things, but I am not sold on the idea of using them for everything out of principle.

I am not buying anymore sealed lead acid AGM batteries. They are a type that LiFePO4 replaces very effectively - much better performance and dramatically reduced weight.

I have a camper trailer that I have been upgrading. We replaced the two 120Ah SLA AGM batteries with two 250 Ah LiFePO4 batteries that weighed less, have four times the usable output, can run an inverter two to three times the size, will have three times the service life, accept a much increased charging current and provide a flat voltage curve.
 
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These "Li-Ion with voltage conversion" batteries are twice as expensive, and have lower capacity. Note that the NiMH batteries are rated in "milli-AMP-hours" whereas the lithium/hybrid ones are rated in milli-WATT-hours. To convert mW to mA you need to divide by the voltage, which is 1.5 volts. So these lithium/hybrid ones are 10,000 / 1.5 = 6667 milli-AMP-hours.

You're paying twice as much for a lower capacity battery. And as Neb pointed out, self-discharge may also be problem. Due to the circuity inside, I would also hazard a guess that they will be less reliable too. I'm not sure these lithium/hybrids have much going for them. They seem a bit gimmicky, kind of like a titanium toothpick.

If you absolutely must have lithium, and your device uses an even number of batteries, you might be able to get away with half the cells being standard 3.7v Li-Ion, and half being 0v dummy cells. Your voltage will still be on the high side, but possibly tolerable if the device you're trying to power is not terribly voltage sensitive. I wouldn't try this on an expensive electronic device however. But maybe on a cheap flashlight (e.g., an incandescent bulb Maglite - the only thing that would be harmed is possibly the light bulb itself, and those are replaceable).

EBL.png
 
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We throw away the alkalines like candy wrappers, and the various chargers for the other (non-lithium) chemistries are piling up. While I hear you on the cost side of these lithium replacements for AA/AAA/C/D/9v, I found that costs weren't that much less for NI-CD and NI-MH (a premium over alkaline).

It could be that the first few lithium vendors/batches out of the chute are premium-priced ... nowhere near as high as my powertool-line of lithium batteries (which I couldn't live without), but on up there.

I've ordered a few representatives from AA/AAA/D/9v (most common in our household), and will run them through their paces ... maybe I can figure out the payback time, once I compare actual costs to those of our SAMS Club alkaline purchases. I'll report back to this thread ...

Thanks for the input!
 
Batteries are in ... each set (AAA, AA, D, 9v) comes with a hydra single usb A to 4 usb B cables, so no special charger needed.

Plugged them all into one of our USB chargers laying around the house, and they are topping off. Red LED indicates charging, blue indicates done. Can't see that any special charger is needed ... basically, they are simple USB type b devices themselves.

Will go through 3 - 5 complete discharge/charge cycles (what the manual calls for), and report back.

Anyone have a good "test" regimen for these battery formats?
 
i really like eneloop and they work good for me. i mostly use AA, AAA with a few 9v. i like them having the umm, 'shells, for D and C that you put the smaller ones in. i dont have much that uses D or C but got the shells just in case.
 

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