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Architect Question 2

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Parascuba

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I post this in the original post. But I didn't know if you guys saw my post. So I figure to make a new post to make sure you guys saw it.

After read all your posts. I refined the design of plan 1, plan 2. But, Plan 3. Friend of mine's idea he pointing as I draw. He demands 2 sinks. I'm going to show you all of them.

Personally, I like floorplan 2. Because it has a closet. Laundry could be in a shed next to the water tank.
 

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SheepDog

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Change the electric heater to a mini-split heat pump. It will cost a bit more to install but it will save you money all year long.
You are trying to put too much into that small space. You need a minimum of 2.5 feet of space between furniture and obstructions.
When you put all that stuff in there you have no way to move around. The pocket doors really save a lot of space but require a wall. Walls take up space too. A 2x4 wall is 4.5 to 5 inches thick. The only place you need walls is around the bath.
 

Caribou

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Your buddy wants an extra sink. The cost of the sink isn't much cash wise but 3+Square feet will be noticeable . That extra sink can be a floor to ceiling storage or just extra room to turn around. Just being a devil's advocate.
 

Amish Heart

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Put an extra sink on the exterior with a cubby around it. Lots of RV's have sinks outside.
Looking at RV's for design is a great idea. We had a 27 footer travel trailer with a pullout. It was as small as I'd go. The ones with two doors were a bit bigger and better.
 

MoBookworm1957

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In plan 1 I would swap the pantry with laundry.
Place laundry near closest water pipes .
Just an idea.
 

Aerindel

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Plan 1 and 2 have too many walls taking up space. IMO.

Think plan 3, but stick the kitchen sink and counter tops on the same wall opposite your utility/bathroom, then put all the plumbing in that wall. Put the cupboards on the wall below it, making an L shaped kitchen area. Leaving the rest open to organize however you like

There is not enough space for the bathroom sink, and you don't need a dividing wall between bathroom and utility. That area would be horribly cramped as designed. But the idea of having just one wall run full width I think is on the right track.

Question...why 24x14?

If you are not stuck with that, the cost to make it 28x14 is pretty small but would really help give you a bit more space for what you are trying to do. That is just one more run of 4x8 plywood panels etc. The cost of making more space is generally pretty small compared to the cost of actually making everything work (plumbing, heating, electrical, doors, etc. The moving parts so to speak of the building)

A pantry doesn't have to have walls. You can just have shelves and make them that much bigger by not having walls around it.

If it was me, I would actually go with NO interior walls, and use movable screens, japanese style. I have a friend with a small octagonal log cabin and she made movable walls with recycled doors, hinged together and angle they are free standing and make pretty good screens.

I think you could actually make a bigger building, for the same cost, if you removed interior walls and rolled that cost into slightly more exterior wall.

You've mentioned a separate water tank building/shed. If a separate building is part of the plan and freezing temps are not a problem where you live I would move the entire bathroom out there. Which would provide WAY more privacy and free up a lot of room in the living room.

This is sort of what I've done. (outhouse)

Second question....is this how you plan to live long term or is this just something to live in while you expand/build another house?
 
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Peanut

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Just a thought… Have you considered shipping containers, Conex boxes. They come in various sizes, you can buy them insulated. The Elko NV area gets less than 10 inches of rain/precipitation a year. You won’t have the normal issues of wetter climates. Bury it under 6ft of earth and cooling won’t be an issue, heating in winter will cost very little. If later you decide desert living isn’t for you… You can put it on a truck.

Top 20 Shipping Container Home Designs and their Costs in 2021

The Complete Guide to Shipping Container Homes in 2021
 

Parascuba

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Plan 1 and 2 have too many walls taking up space. IMO.

Think plan 3, but stick the kitchen sink and counter tops on the same wall opposite your utility/bathroom, then put all the plumbing in that wall. Put the cupboards on the wall below it, making an L shaped kitchen area. Leaving the rest open to organize however you like

There is not enough space for the bathroom sink, and you don't need a dividing wall between bathroom and utility. That area would be horribly cramped as designed. But the idea of having just one wall run full width I think is on the right track.

Question...why 24x14?

If you are not stuck with that, the cost to make it 28x14 is pretty small but would really help give you a bit more space for what you are trying to do. That is just one more run of 4x8 plywood panels etc. The cost of making more space is generally pretty small compared to the cost of actually making everything work (plumbing, heating, electrical, doors, etc. The moving parts so to speak of the building)

A pantry doesn't have to have walls. You can just have shelves and make them that much bigger by not having walls around it.

If it was me, I would actually go with NO interior walls, and use movable screens, japanese style. I have a friend with a small octagonal log cabin and she made movable walls with recycled doors, hinged together and angle they are free standing and make pretty good screens.

I think you could actually make a bigger building, for the same cost, if you removed interior walls and rolled that cost into slightly more exterior wall.

You've mentioned a separate water tank building/shed. If a separate building is part of the plan and freezing temps are not a problem where you live I would move the entire bathroom out there. Which would provide WAY more privacy and free up a lot of room in the living room.

This is sort of what I've done. (outhouse)

Second question....is this how you plan to live long term or is this just something to live in while you expand/build another house?
Why 24 x 14? Small House = Low tax. And I have seen someone build a house with a size of 24 x 14 I love it so much. I wanted to have alike. But the problem she refuses to share the blueprint. But she only gave hand freestyle draw it was very very messy. I can't read. I have staring this blueprint she draws for hours. I never get it. So I had to come up with something a floorplan. I only know it's 24 x 14. I still storm-brain with a friend to come up a better layout. My friend, want to move with me. So I'm going to make him pay half whatever billing comes up. Like the internet, and some stuff whatever comes up. That's where the 3rd floorplan comes from.

How long? Probably rest my life. Small house for now because I have a limit incoming. I only make 14k a year. Once I get extra money from somehow make a profit out of large land. I would like to build a bigger house and turn the first house into a guest house for friends or family who visit over. Or turn it into an apartment.
 

Parascuba

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Just a thought… Have you considered shipping containers, Conex boxes? They come in various sizes, you can buy them insulated. The Elko NV area gets less than 10 inches of rain/precipitation a year. You won’t have the normal issues of wetter climates. Bury it under 6ft of earth and cooling won’t be an issue, heating in winter will cost very little. If later you decide desert living isn’t for you… You can put it on a truck.

Top 20 Shipping Container Home Designs and their Costs in 2021

The Complete Guide to Shipping Container Homes in 2021
I have thought of 3 of 40-foot shipping containers to design 4 bedrooms 4 bathroom 2 living areas. I could rent out 2 rooms or let a friend/brother join me.

House would be about 40 ft x 40ft. I never draw a floor plan of the container on the computer but I have drawn on paper while talking with friends about it.

Two shipping containers, on the west and east side. 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms in each shipping container. Each bedroom has its own private seating area. One Shipping Container at the middle with breezeway between 1st & 3rd. There's a breezeway with a roof for solar panels and storage of batteries. The middle has Laundry with a bathroom, Kitchen, Pantry. Dining room, Family rm, and Lounge rm.

But I found out it cost to bring shipping containers to Nevada is costly than living close to the ocean. I only make 14k a year.
 

Aerindel

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Shipping containers are trendy, but unless you have a cheap or free local source, they aren't actually that great in terms of cost by the time you insulate them etc.

I understand that you are trying to save money. I started out my place with just $4K that I had saved up. I ended up having to borrow $5k before It was finished enough to live in.

What I am getting at though is, with a small house, even a small increase in size can make a huge difference. Your floor plans keep looking like your space isn't big enough for what you want to put in. Not by a large amount, but it looks like you keep trying to stick about 10% more stuff than will fit. Thats why I'm saying, if your not specifically constrained, ie, if you have the physical room to make your floorplan a little bit bigger, it would be worth the extra $500 or so that it would cost to make it about four feet longer.

My house is 16' diameter circle with three levels....but even though I was really poor when I started it, I wish I have made it just a couple feet wider, 18' instead of 16, which would barely have cost me anything compared to the total cost but solved some problems that now I am stuck with every single day.

Unless of course there is a specific tax bracket or something you are trying to avoid by sticking to exactly 14x24.

For instance, this is my first floor bedroom, which I would be happy with....if it was just a little bit bigger.

 
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Parascuba

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Thought to share the update, I talk with real estate I told them I felt like I bought land in Elko Nevada is the biggest mistake I ever made... I'm looking for a place with road access and much warm as no snow at all.. He replies. He says Since I didn't touch land since I bought it, he willing to trade land 10 acres for 10 acres or bigger land anywhere in his market list. But, he won't refund. Just trade as long I never touch it. Payment will be adjusted to stay 5 years of payment.

I have been thinking if I should go for it or not because. This one I bought has to creek/river. But 100 yards away from the road. Am I allowed to drive on BML? I have those guts feels say they would never be allowed
 

SoJer

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Op - Nice ideas, but.. Based on past experience doing Kitchens / Baths / Remodeling a fair bit (..and, Not purporting to be any 'Frank Lloyd Wright', here, but.. :) ) ..This much I feel ok with 'strongly seconding':

...plan 3, but stick the kitchen sink and counter tops on the same wall opposite your utility/bathroom, then put all the plumbing in that wall. ...
^ THIS, Absolutely. There are a Lot of un-necessary 'drain / supply stretches' in the other plans, and you Always want to 'avoid bends / elbows', as much as Possible, where possible.. Here's a 'rough' of what I would do with that space, along Aerindel's fine-suggestion-lines:

(and Pre-Script: this was 'hacked together' in Preview (Mac-equivalent of 'Paint'..) so.. Please forgive all the 'quick & dirty' pasting-in / overlaps, etc.. Didn't really have the time to 'properly draft' something better, but.. Should get the 'idea across'.. :)



..As you can see, All the plumbing / drains would be in that One 'common channel-wall', there on the 'East side'.. This eliminates much 'mystery' (and quickens / simplifies access) - not If, but When - there is a leak, therein.. ;)

..But, if the supply-points and drains are peppered all around the cabin (as-in all the Plans in the OP) and, say, you wake one am to an inch of water on the entire floor - it's Much more work / possible wall-digging to suss 'where it's coming from'. But, with all of that in only One Wall - much easier / quicker to locate and 'stop the bleed'.. ;)

One 'wildcard' being the Water Heater, there. I put it in the 'SW corner' of the "Laundry Room" - as One possibility - but.. Also totally agree / second this:

...You've mentioned a separate water tank building/shed. If a separate building is part of the plan and freezing temps are not a problem where you live I would move the entire bathroom out there....
Yep. IF you can (as I've 'comped' up in the N-side, Outside (just pasted the heater 'inside' the clip/paste of the Fridge, to simulate the suggestion of a small, Exterior 'closet' for it..)

a) Easy to 'insulate', if necessary,
b) Better that it 'blow it's seals' Outside (vs In) If it ever does / needs to.. and
c) Best for Ventilation (I'm assuming it would be NatGas-fired - Far more efficient than Electric, but.. that's a different discussion..) Anyhoo - Outside would be best, Imho..

PS - IF you can work it out to be Outside - then the Clothes Dryer could go in that SW corner (where the WH is 'temp placed', now) Certainly, would be Much easier / better to vent the dryer thru an Outside wall, vs in the 'core', there. But, the Washer can still be where it's pictured now, in that 'Utility-wall', because again - Better with the common supply / drain-lines, therein, etc..

Couple other suggestions, as seen, herein:

1) Suggest to get / use a Futon / Couch-Bed or even a 'Murphy bed' (IIrc, that's what they're called..) - vs - a full size bed, in the Living / Sleeping Room there, since - obviously - the ability to 'get it Out of the way' for more floor / work space, there, is 'Priceless'..

2) re: What's 'going on in the NE corner, there, by the Entrance Door?' Well.. Imagine (in any of the 'Original' plans) you're there, in the 'Living / Sleeping Room', on yer Bed / Couch, whatever - and your Roommate, etc, abruptly opens that Entrance Door - and lets in a blast of howling wind / dust / snow / rain - Right Into your 'Most Sacred / Precious space' - your Bed. :eek: Yeah.. Not good, imo..

..Or, further - Imagine a 'middle of the night Break-in' - Blam - you're Instantly 'exposed' to that Threat - also, Not good. (Side note: IF you've Allowed anyone potentially malevolent to 'Get that close', in the first place, well.. The real 'failure' isn't the Floorplan - it's your Perimeter Security Plan - but again, that's another discussion. :)

..But, let's say you Do have a "decent perimeter security set up / alert system", and it's still somehow 'breached'... And Now, the attackers are At / getting Into your Door - In the orig Floorplans, you're 'wide open'. Thus, the 'airlock / buffer' Entryway, there, which - yes - Does 'add a wall', but.. As you can see, that can also be 'functional', ie: a place to anchor pantry cabinets in the Kitchen - and that 'little closet' you want (at least for coats / boots, etc) in that 'Entryway'.

At least that gives you an 'extra layer' / air-buffer, which you Can then, 'fortify, as you wish' - which at Least gives you some all-critical 'extra time' to arm-up / rack yer Shotgun, etc. In the orig. layouts, well... you've really got 'No time buffer', at all.

Well, that's just a few thoughts / ideas that came to mind. Now, everybody tear it apart, and let's make it Better. :)

.02
jd
 
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Parascuba

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I like the floor plan you draw. I'll redraw it to make sense. I could tell you just edit and moving the image around without actually use that program. :) Oh yeah, here 3 pictures. A friend of mine and I talk about making possible phases 1, 2, 3. First, build phase 1 then whenever there extra $ down the road then build phase 2 then phase 3.

Probably Master Bedroom & Sunroom should trade their place. I can't edit after draw because I'm using a free program. It doesn't allow to save the file. Anyway, As Aerindel & SoJer say water should be on one side of the wall. This one has all water on one side. Umm at least mostly it is
 

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Aerindel

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I very into phased building. I think it's key for a self built, low budget homestead.

One thing you have to keep in mind though, is your roof. You have to account for how your phase roofs will interact with each other.

This is the North west wall building of my compound. Its a combination storage, wood shed, above ground root cellar and heated shop. Built in three phases. 12x52 You can see how I did the roofline so that it was easy to add on each section as I went, starting with the downhill section, and working my way up . Whatever way you go, just figure out how your rooflines will connect to each other with each addition.

 

SoJer

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^ Lookin Mighty-Solid, Mon Frére... :cool: I'm extrapolating, here, but.. 'Pink insul-foamboard', chicken-wire wrap, and Stucco-skin, ultimately? I certainly can't imagine "siding" :)

@ Scuba - those are interesting designs, also (and, I see one of them has the 'porch' / entrance-buffer idea on the Outside - yep, For Sure, If you can do that (vs my 'internal idea') that's Much better than taking up valuable living space inside, but.. I was going off your statement that you were kind of 'locked into' the 24' x 14' paradigm, so.. Good to see you "can" expand a little, since.. once it's Built, well.. That's all the space you gonna get. :)

..Anyhoo, it sounds like, with your Land-situation, you've got 'bigger fish to fry, First', yes? Certainly, if your 'Plot' might change, you should really probably wait till that's 'settled', since, well.. Obviously, as Aerindel's build shows, 'terrain' can Highly-dictate what you can / will need to build.. If nothing else, 'drainage considerations', etc.. Don't wanna end up with a 'septic swamp', eeeew.. ;)

.03
jd
 

Aerindel

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Tar paper, expanded sheet metal backing, and stucco. I don't need the extra insulation of foam board. I'm going to divid it up with 2x6s on the surface to give it a medieval timber framed look, sort of like this:


But that is a problem for future Aerindel. The shop, like all my buildings is built from the inside out so the siding, cladding, etc is always the last thing I get to.
 

Parascuba

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Nice job. What is a square with X in it? Utility Sink? make sure...

So, it's a 30 x 14 house?
 

Parascuba

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My friend makes a bet that he says I can't make something SMALLEST house. And I prove him wrong. I could :) and I won $50 :)

Personal Cabin.png
 

Parascuba

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This is Second Smaller House "No you can't come up with another house more comfortable and smaller stay under 250 sq ft." And I prove him wrong :)

smaller house 1.png
 

SoJer

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My friend makes a bet that he says I can't make ...SMALLEST house....

View attachment 59577
Congrats! Now just add a frame, wheels / axles, and an engine + transmission - and you've got a nice RV! :) jk..

Only comment would be that - If - you were actually contemplating 'living in something this Small' (rather than just designing it to 'prove a point', which sounds like it's the case..) re: the "Woodstove".. Uh, yeah, I think in a living-space this size, that would be a 'recipe for Death'. :)

..Imho, you'd be far better off with just a small 'sealed oil heater', ie: 1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater with Thermostat-HO-0279 - The Home Depot

..and, If you wanted something for 'when there's No Power', etc, well.. Maybe (?) a small Kero-heater, ie: Sengoku OR-77 $110.78 Kerosene Omni Radiant, Kerosene, 10000 BtuH | Zoro.com ..but even That, I think would be 'risky' in that small a space, so...

Just some 'food for thought', since that's actually small enough that needing to think about CO vs O2 intake starts to be Important.. :cool:

.02
jd
 
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Parascuba

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Congrats! Now just add a frame, wheels / axles, and an engine + transmission - and you've got a nice RV! :) jk..

Only comment would be that - If - you were actually contemplating 'living in something this Small' (rather than just designing it to 'prove a point', which sounds like it's the case..) re: the "Woodstove".. Uh, yeah, I think in a living-space this size, that would be a 'recipe for Death'. :)

..Imho, you'd be far better off with just a small 'sealed oil heater', ie: 1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater with Thermostat-HO-0279 - The Home Depot

..and, If you wanted something for 'when there's No Power', etc, well.. Maybe (?) a small Kero-heater, ie: Sengoku OR-77 $110.78 Kerosene Omni Radiant, Kerosene, 10000 BtuH | Zoro.com ..but even That, I think would be 'risky' in that small a space, so...

Just some 'food for thought', since that's actually small enough that needing to think about CO vs O2 intake starts to be Important.. :cool:

.02
jd
I like the second smaller house than first thought.
 

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