Considering buying a small milling machine as a prep.

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Aerindel

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On some scarred slope of battered hill
Due to disaster related government corruption, I've had a bit of a monetary windfall. Well, still in progress but its gone from "I could buy a new handgun money" to "Damn....I could really go shopping money" how far it will go, I have no idea. I'm taking it day by day, but I'm taking advantage of a one time opportunity to 'earn' a lot more than I've ever made before for as long as it lasts.

But being me, all money spent adheres to our internal 'doctrine', which I won't go into in detail, but basically says that 'excess' money can be spent on things that may be fun, but most be also be useful as a prep, with the proportion of 'useful' vs 'fun' going up as the price tag increases, even if all the money coming in at the moment is 'excess to needs'.

Its fine to blow $100 on something that is pretty much just a toy....but a $1,000 purchase has to be something that benefits the homestead and increases the overall 'survival rating' of our place, if its 'fun' that is nice but primarily, money has to go to something useful at that scale and above. We don't eat out, we don't go on vacations, we don't buy expensive clothes, cars, etc.

In past times, simply saving money or paying of debt would be the logical choice, but we have been debt free for years, and money is losing value by the day so I feel some pressure to unload all this useless cash before it depreciates too much.

Some may have no sympathy for this situation, which I fully understand...believe me....this is a very odd problem to have in my life and is likely to never repeat.

Anyway....this is a long rambling way to say, I want/need to buy a few thousand dollars of some crap that I don't strictly need, but that is useful and hopefully somewhat fun.

With guns/ammo/building materials being grossly inflated and hard to get, I'm looking at tools.

Something I've always wanted, but never had, was a small milling machine for fabricating my own machine parts. However, I have never used one. Primarily my metal working tools are forges, welders, grinders, drill presses, etc and when I do need to make 'parts' its usually laboriously free-handing them on the belt grinder.

What I'm wondering...is a benchtop scale milling machine would be a good general purpose tool for the homestead metal shop....or more of a speciality tool that is only worth having if your running a fabrication business?

And as a followup....is learning to use a milling machine so hard that its only worth it if your using it heavily....or is it simple enough that you can just add it into your general skillset without imposing too much of a training burden. Can it just be another tool in your shop or does it have to be something you really focus on to be able to use.
 
It would be a very useful tool in the event things fall apart and parts for other things become obsolete.

PS, where do we sign up for this windfall? LOL
 
It would be a very useful tool in the event things fall apart and parts for other things become obsolete.

PS, where do we sign up for this windfall? LOL

Become an EMT, sign up to work in a fire camp for a local forest fire. 12 hour shifts, absolutely nothing to do but sleep and try not to go nuts from boredom, collect $35 an hour while watching it rain.
 
I am not a machinist. Let me state that up front. But have used a mill, lathe, etc some, and I'm pretty decent working with wood. Skills cross over to some extent. Dimensions are much tighter however. You know your ability to learn, and with some study, I would expect its something you could use. But it'll take a good deal of work to master.
. I'd love to have one
 
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I have both a small lathe and a small milling machine. I very seldom use the milling machine but use the lathe pretty regular. What I am saying is that you might find a lathe a more useful tool.

Both require a financial investment in additional tooling.
 
I have both a small lathe and a small milling machine. I very seldom use the milling machine but use the lathe pretty regular. What I am saying is that you might find a lathe a more useful tool.

Both require a financial investment in additional tooling.

I've been considering a lathe instead or in addition. What kind of things do you do with the lathe?
 
Become an EMT, sign up to work in a fire camp for a local forest fire. 12 hour shifts, absolutely nothing to do but sleep and try not to go nuts from boredom, collect $35 an hour while watching it rain.

LOL, I already did my time as a Firefighter/EMT.
 
With Milling Machines, and most metal machining tools, it is the the actual cutting tools that are expensive. They break easily. And you need "tool and die" skills and that special machinery and jigs for sharpening and repairing broken cutting tools. And yes, to do more then "crude" milling, you need training and experience. You soon find out you need related equipment for indexing, etc.

Ask me how I know.....???
 
LOL, I already did my time as a Firefighter/EMT.

This is my time sitting in a box making money.

I'd rather be firefighting and EMTing.....but it turns out I have a price....and that price is money.
 
A milling machine will let you make precision parts/components... The 2nd half of this issue is - Can you get the kinds of steel used to make precision parts? Also, many times precision parts are heat treated to make them usable. If you don't have a stock of quality steels and have the capability to properly heat treat these parts? What would be the point of getting a milling machine?(Just wanted to point out what it was designed to do.)

That said, a milling machine can be a handy thing to have around with other uses than machine parts but I'd prefer to get a lathe before a milling machine.
 
I currently own the tools to make the things I used to make by hand.
The lathe and mill are quicker than hand making the parts and are easier to finish. Keeping the metal stock on hand is easier than keeping a good stock of carbide and steel cutting bits. I keep brass, aluminum, mild and tool steel. I have a small oven for heat treating but I want to get a good size kiln in the future. I have a decent forge but I want to replace it with a clean forge - either natural gas, alcohol or best an electric forge.
 
I'd prefer to get a lathe before a milling machine

The learning curve for being a basic operator on a lathe is about 20% of the time and training required to be a basic milling machine operator.
 
Due to disaster related government corruption, I've had a bit of a monetary windfall. Well, still in progress but its gone from "I could buy a new handgun money" to "Damn....I could really go shopping money" how far it will go, I have no idea. I'm taking it day by day, but I'm taking advantage of a one time opportunity to 'earn' a lot more than I've ever made before for as long as it lasts.

But being me, all money spent adheres to our internal 'doctrine', which I won't go into in detail, but basically says that 'excess' money can be spent on things that may be fun, but most be also be useful as a prep, with the proportion of 'useful' vs 'fun' going up as the price tag increases, even if all the money coming in at the moment is 'excess to needs'.

Its fine to blow $100 on something that is pretty much just a toy....but a $1,000 purchase has to be something that benefits the homestead and increases the overall 'survival rating' of our place, if its 'fun' that is nice but primarily, money has to go to something useful at that scale and above. We don't eat out, we don't go on vacations, we don't buy expensive clothes, cars, etc.

In past times, simply saving money or paying of debt would be the logical choice, but we have been debt free for years, and money is losing value by the day so I feel some pressure to unload all this useless cash before it depreciates too much.

Some may have no sympathy for this situation, which I fully understand...believe me....this is a very odd problem to have in my life and is likely to never repeat.

Anyway....this is a long rambling way to say, I want/need to buy a few thousand dollars of some crap that I don't strictly need, but that is useful and hopefully somewhat fun.

With guns/ammo/building materials being grossly inflated and hard to get, I'm looking at tools.

Something I've always wanted, but never had, was a small milling machine for fabricating my own machine parts. However, I have never used one. Primarily my metal working tools are forges, welders, grinders, drill presses, etc and when I do need to make 'parts' its usually laboriously free-handing them on the belt grinder.

What I'm wondering...is a benchtop scale milling machine would be a good general purpose tool for the homestead metal shop....or more of a speciality tool that is only worth having if your running a fabrication business?

And as a followup....is learning to use a milling machine so hard that its only worth it if your using it heavily....or is it simple enough that you can just add it into your general skillset without imposing too much of a training burden. Can it just be another tool in your shop or does it have to be something you really focus on to be able to use.
Since already blacksmith and weld you are most likely already familiar with metals and hardness. If you plan to make your own tooling or guns hardening will be required. But that is a deep hole I will skip over for now.

What are the largest parts you see yourself machining?

The answer to that question will help you choose the right tool.

The Princess purchased a Smithy for me about 25 years ago.

20210828_144334_HDR.jpg


It is a lathe milling machine and drill press combo.

image1-copy.png



It has paid for itself. I have plans to upgrade it sometime.

https://smithy.com/collections/gran...4qDeZkCkDr7_DYqHWe0gZjQaWYOM1juMaArkyEALw_wcB
There no end to the accesories and tooling required depending on how speializing a particular job you want to handle.

Fixturing and measuring gear is required to hold the work checking your progress.

20210828_144602_HDR.jpg


Taps dies and reamers help with threading and precise holes.

20210828_144646_HDR.jpg


Cutters of various shapes boring heads boring bars fly cutters are used depending on what are making. Expert machinist will grind cutters by hand for odd ball jobs. I had a retired machinist visit to make a N-scale pulley for a skip hoist for a steel mill model. He ground a cutter to do the under cut to face the pulley.

20210828_144722_HDR.jpg


V-blocks collets and other widgets help fiture odd shaped parts.

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Most of the tooling can be useful after I upgrade.

Suggestions:

Consider purchasing used eventually but if you are a novice it could be hard to evaluate if a machine is beat up.

Check you shop space and clearances. I was going to bid on a Bridgeport until I realized it was too tall for my shop.

Check your power. Bigger machines need 3-phase power. Others require 220V.

How are you going to get it into your shop? You may be able to get lift gate delivery but once the palette is off the truck it still has to be moved to it home in the shop. I used an engine hoist for mine.

Re: learning

Percision machining has been around for more than 100 years. Get a Machinery's Handbook and get familiar with it.

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It will offer info on how deep a cut how fast to feed on what type of material... I needed to figure what clearance I needed needed between the crank shaft and the main bearings... 0.003"

My machine came with a manual on all of the basic operations.

Watch some Youtube videos to see what you are getting into.

This Old Tony makes a boring head and warns about the danger of time travel in this video.



Abomb79 is a master machinist with all of the toys.

https://youtube.com/c/Abom79
Doubleboost is mechanic that has a practical approach that it "good enough". Warning! He speaks English.

https://youtube.com/c/doubleboost
When you get started I suggest you purchase twice as much stock as you will need and plan to do it twice. I broke off a 4-40 tap in the next to last hole on my first project.

The advice from a machinist to me was...

"Just start making some chips!"

Ben
 
You seem to have enough fixtures and tooling to do most of the jobs or to make tooling that you don't have.
I have a tool post grinder and a magnetic chuck plate for some of my tasks but the largest pieces I work on are 15 inches in diameter and pieces that are close to 4 feet long. Most of my work is a lot smaller. Always get a bigger machine than you can imagine needing, you are going to run into a job that requires it. :)
My lathe is 16 x 80 (fitted with a large 4 hp 220 1 phase motor).
The mill has 39" long travel and 16" cross travel. 3 hp 220v 1 phase motor.
I had to replace the motor on the lathe because it was the week point of the machine.
When (if) I replace them I will go to 3 phase motors - they have more torque. Won't be necessary for most of my jobs but It's better to have one machine and get used to it than it is to have two machines.
 
I don't know what to say about milling and/or machining. I know little about it. I would seriously consider upgrading the necessary equipment you've already got, or adding spares. Having extras of things like electric motors, well pumps, etc. can come in very handy. Also, upgrading to a higher capacity or better quality is often money well spent, in my opinion.

I think this way because my pops often couldn't afford higher end equipment for the farm. Crawling down into the well pit once every yearto replace a cheap, underpowered well pump gets real old real fast. Same with things like cheap lawn mowers or other important but expensive stuff. If SHTF, you'll probably appreciate good quality. I would equate it to having a Toyota vs having a Yugo. Which one would you rather depend on?
 
You seem to have enough fixtures and tooling to do most of the jobs or to make tooling that you don't have.
I have a tool post grinder and a magnetic chuck plate for some of my tasks but the largest pieces I work on are 15 inches in diameter and pieces that are close to 4 feet long. Most of my work is a lot smaller. Always get a bigger machine than you can imagine needing, you are going to run into a job that requires it. :)
My lathe is 16 x 80 (fitted with a large 4 hp 220 1 phase motor).
The mill has 39" long travel and 16" cross travel. 3 hp 220v 1 phase motor.
I had to replace the motor on the lathe because it was the week point of the machine.
When (if) I replace them I will go to 3 phase motors - they have more torque. Won't be necessary for most of my jobs but It's better to have one machine and get used to it than it is to have two machines.
I do have a tool post grinder but I have to figure out why it is not running.

A magnetic chuck looks nice but don't have one of those.

I have to erect another shed to clear enough space make room for the machines you have.

But it one it determined smaller machine can do big jobs.

Abom79 had to repair the bearing journals on a long shaft. He mounted a steady rest on a milling machine to hold the back end while mchining the journals on his lathe.

Ben
 
My vote goes to lathe also, the multi machines are neat, but it depends on what you think you will need to make, a lathe can be fitted with some clamping equipment to do most basic milling work. mr pete has a pretty nice you tube with some really good ideas, he has written some basic machining books under the Tubal Cain pseudonym.
 
My grandad was a machinest. He had said with a lathe all other machines could be made. The other machines could not make a lathe. Not sure if he meant that literally or if it was his way of saying the lathe was the king of machines. He had two, a huge one. Maybe 10 foot between centers and a small one 36 inch between centers

We still have our grandfathers equipment
He used a shaper, horizontal mill and verticle mill a lot. He had lots of other equipment too.

For me in my little shop, i think a smithy might be in the works. Im not going to make gears for a d9 cat.

I have a old south bend and use it a bit but it is whipped
A experienced man could make it sing, me not so much
 
I've been considering a lathe instead or in addition. What kind of things do you do with the lathe?
Stuff. It is something different every time just about. For the last few years it has just been busy work to keep me from getting bored. I have made many miniature cannons, cartridge adapters, percussion nipples, peep sight apertures, bushings for many different things to keep them in operation. Lately I have turned the backs off of cartridges to have just a thin disc to inset in knife handles for decorations. When I make wood handles for some tools, I turn the wood down on one end so I can slip on a steel collar to keep the wood from splitting. The list is basically endless. And I would make more stuff if I was smarter.
 
what about other items you want and need. what about materials to build a sawmill to have longterm.? also keep this in mind prices of lumber are falling. it might take a bit longer in all areas but it is coming down. i know some areas are almost back to pre jump prices...2x6x8 $5.55 and osb $17.99 this week. i know its a gamble but look and think and just dont spend willy nealy . be a shame to buy stuff you only use sparingly and then 6 months later lumber is cheap for you to do additions you have wanted and planned.

theres nothing wrong with having a much larger nest egg. i believe our society has a spending problem not only of going into debt but spending money when they have no real savings. i dont want to hear inflation this and that. theres times when you just need bulk cash to deal with things and only way to do that is to have it saved and leaving it alone for real emergencies. not directed at @Aerindel ..just painting with a very broad brush about our society. especially when it shows average american has less than $500 in checking or savings. i just shake my head at that.

dave ramsey says household need a $2000 emergencies fund...fooey on that...they need way more than that..heck a engine transmission in vehicle..either one is that alone in price.living out west in fire country i would have enough cash to at least put some type roof over my head if i got burned out.emergencies of late are costlier and bigger on all scales as of late.

i know i am odd man out often in my thinking...whatever ya do i hope it serves your homestead and family well.
 
When I served my apprenticeship the company (at that time and for many decades) made the largest metal cutting machines in the world. China has that title now. Many of the lathes had a ladder built into the carriage, and a seat, the operator rode on the carriage. For decades we built the lathes for turning gun barrels on the largest battle ships. The lathes had to be more then twice as long as the gun barrel. We built a lathe for one job, it needed to chuck a nine foot diameter ram. We used it for other work after completing that job.

We built these machines that you drove a locomotive or railcar onto the machine, and it would turn and burnish the wheels. We would sometimes have to build a building just to assemble a segment of a machine. We built large gear drives of minesweepers all components could not attract a magnet. We did a lot of work for the U.S. Navy. We built all of the big stuff for the early nuclear power plants.
 
dave ramsey says household need a $2000 emergencies fund...fooey on that...they need way more than that..heck a engine transmission in vehicle..either one is that alone in price.living out west in fire country i would have enough cash to at least put some type roof over my head if i got burned out.emergencies of late are costlier and bigger on all scales as of late.

i know i am odd man out often in my thinking...whatever ya do i hope it serves your homestead and family well.

My way of thinking is that I would have a better return spending that emergency money NOW to prevent emergencies then afterward, to recover from them.
 
When I served my apprenticeship the company (at that time and for many decades) made the largest metal cutting machines in the world. China has that title now. Many of the lathes had a ladder built into the carriage, and a seat, the operator rode on the carriage. For decades we built the lathes for turning gun barrels on the largest battle ships. The lathes had to be more then twice as long as the gun barrel. We built a lathe for one job, it needed to chuck a nine foot diameter ram. We used it for other work after completing that job.

We built these machines that you drove a locomotive or railcar onto the machine, and it would turn and burnish the wheels. We would sometimes have to build a building just to assemble a segment of a machine. We built large gear drives of minesweepers all components could not attract a magnet. We did a lot of work for the U.S. Navy. We built all of the big stuff for the early nuclear power plants.
If you have not realized you @Aerindel have opened pandodora box. Anything and everything (save a helical gear), can be be done with a lathe milling machine and an indexing head..
Maybe not helical gears .

Mayberry you can try your yourself with the cheap HF little machines.If you like the process and want greater accuracy upgrade.

Start small and your tooling should adapt.

Ask us if you have questions.

Trying to help

Ben
 
That may be just about perfect. Although right now overkill for me...

I keep forgetting to post this.. We've got one of these (close to this Exact model, but older..) at work, and for small, quickie-jobs, it's been the shizz.. Deluxe Ultimate Machine Shop – Sherline Products ..I'll try and get the Exact-exact Model we have / post and update, but it's fairly close to that set-up.. 'Accurate enough', and certainly capable across several categories of 'stuff-makin'.. Fwiw.. :cool:

..Also - Dude - IF you ever get a set-up like either this, or the (Amazing :cool: 'Smithy', there, let's 'chat'.. I've still got a TON of tools / jigs / bits, from my Old shop (circa 2010-2015..) and I've just not had the Time to keep-up with 'eBay sales' / CL-babysitting, etc.. I'll be More than happy to 'donate some stuff' to ya, since I - personally - no longer have a full Shop / Machines <cry>

..just All hand-tools / few decent 'supplementals' (Brake / Press, etc) and I'd rather see them go to a 'Good Home' / Use, then try and spend the next 5 yrs trying to 'milk a few pennys' out, holding onto them all.. Just a few 'spares of my spares' stuff..

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:)
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...etc, etc, etc..

..Again, there's Quite a bit More than this, but.. These were just a Few snaps I took, whence last in the 'maelstrom' that Is my Garage, Lol.. Believe me - my Wife will Profusely Thank You ;)

Lemme know if / as-of interest.. :cool:
jd
 
I have a small combo metal lathe/mill from Harbor Freight that is twenty years old. It is not for sale at HF now, but it is like the Grizzly combo, but a different shade of green. I bought it from a knife maker, who found it of little use to him. I have a combo sander, four ton hand die press & sixty male/female dies, a wood lathe. I also got two used mini table top drills, so I can do repeat operations with out changing bits. I have not found a six station drill as of yet.
 
I've been considering a lathe instead or in addition. What kind of things do you do with the lathe?
Yesterday I made a treadle or foot-powered grinder. I used hard 3/8" rebar for the rods going down to the pedals. I used my lathe to turn down one end of each rod so I could thread thread them. I used the lathe to turn down the other end of each rod so I could easier heat them up and bend them into the needed "L" shape to attach to the grind wheel. Once you have tools it is easy to find uses for them.
 
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