Constructive criticism from readers to authors

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As a published author, I appreciate hearing that there are still readers who dislike graphic sex scenes and the usual torrent of vulgarity and cursing that add nothing to the story. Unfortunately, those of us who try to write stories without hardcore sex and violence are often accused of being too vanilla.

IMO cursing and violence often fits with many PAW related story lines. Fact is if there are gritty/scary antagonists they won't sound like choir boys when they speak. Same for protagonists, I once saw a show about black box recordings from plane crashes and the most common last words from pilots right before they slammed into the ground was "Oh ****!". When raw emotions overflow most folks will use colorful language.

Graphic sex scenes are a whole different ballgame though. First off the vast majority of mainstream thriller/crime/horror novels do not include any graphic sex. Secondly they require a level of skill that most PAW fiction writers have NOT acquired. Fact is most people that write erotic fiction create separate pieces, they don't write an action/adventure story and then just throw those elements in because the genres are so different and quite frankly if readers wanted erotic material they wouldn't be reading an action/adventure/paw story!

Of course some authors can successfully throw graphic sex into existing story lines (Clive Barker is an example, his horror novels include a lot of various elements) because their entire story line involves very gritty dark eccentric characters so it fits, but most can't do it well so they don't even try.
 
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Sex is part of life, Most adults are familiar enough with it to supply their own intimate, graphic details after the author writes "they went to bed" or some thing of similar significance. "Street" language can be suggested and inferred most of the time, if the author is skilled and the reader is knowledgeable. A published work of fiction is a team game in several ways - including its readers.

I read a lot of fiction (not counting news stories) in which guns are involved. It does help my "mind's eye" to know the gun's basic design - revolver/pistol/bolt action/pump sort of stuff. Further detail, unless it plays a part in the story, is an intrusion and distraction.

[Where is this library?]
 
As a different perspective I have had reviewers of my books say that they are not realistic because of no swearing. And to be honest that is certainly true.

But we all hear enough of that in real life---we don't have have to put up with it in our reading too.


What type of books do you write? I may have to check some out.
 
I believe criticism from readers who do not themselves write is of limited global value. They are usually commenting on their personal preferences because they are unaware of the art involved in writing. I have published a few short stories in local magazines but I have not published any books yet. I am writing one but it is a long way from finished. I seem to have trouble in writing about interactions that are less than ideal because of who I am and my background. I have to work to remember that even the "best" people have "off days" and can mess up communications. That is where my story sits now, three separate interactions that need to be "less than ideal" in order to carry the plot through the encounters. I have rarely experienced less than ideal interactions and mis communications. It is difficult to write what you are not familiar with.
 
It is all according to what the author is trying to say I guess. And of course how they say it .
I have never read a book that was really vulgar that couldn't have been better without being filthy rather than romantically exotitc.
I thought of writing a book but nobody would believe it.
 
What type of books do you write? I may have to check some out.
I write apocalyptic fiction. One of my stories can be read in the Library here.

Book criticism IS of limited value because everyone likes something different.
My first stories were not edited and contained enough grammatical errors so they were actually hard to read (and I heard about it:)). Then I hired a professional editor and the first reviewer said she liked them better before I got an editor :dunno:. That is when I learned that you cannot please everyone.
 
My first stories were not edited and contained enough grammatical errors so they were actually hard to read (and I heard about it:)). Then I hired a professional editor and the first reviewer said she liked them better before I got an editor :dunno:. That is when I learned that you cannot please everyone.

Have you downloaded that grammarly program? Try that, it will fix your grammar while you create the flow/energy of the story (so it isn't changed much later by the editor).
 
I am writing one but it is a long way from finished. I seem to have trouble in writing about interactions that are less than ideal because of who I am and my background.

That is where my story sits now, three separate interactions that need to be "less than ideal" in order to carry the plot through the encounters. I have rarely experienced less than ideal interactions and mis communications. It is difficult to write what you are not familiar with.

I don't write often but if you are feeling "blocked" what I find works well is to stop writing linearly, and simply jump to a section of the story that you are inspired to put on paper. That gets the juices flowing and once you relax often the solution to the more difficult sections comes easily or is even obvious.
 
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IMO cursing and violence often fits with many PAW related story lines. Fact is if there are gritty/scary antagonists they won't sound like choir boys when they speak. Same for protagonists, I once saw a show about black box recordings from plane crashes and the most common last words from pilots right before they slammed into the ground was "Oh ****!". When raw emotions overflow most folks will use colorful language.

Graphic sex scenes are a whole different ballgame though. First off the vast majority of mainstream thriller/crime/horror novels do not include any graphic sex. Secondly they require a level of skill that most PAW fiction writers have NOT acquired. Fact is most people that write erotic fiction create separate pieces, they don't write an action/adventure story and then just throw those elements in because the genres are so different and quite frankly if readers wanted erotic material they wouldn't be reading an action/adventure/paw story!

Of course some authors can successfully throw graphic sex into existing story lines (Clive Barker is an example, his horror novels include a lot of various elements) because their entire story line involves very gritty dark eccentric characters so it fits, but most can't do it well so they don't even try.

I think my post was somewhat misleading when describing my views about cursing and the content of my novel. Yes, I agree there are times when the situation is appropriate to express extreme emotions. My novel does include a few scenes where mild curse words are used, but it's not a steady stream of gutter language used for shock value only. I try to make them appropriate for the situation. If I was in a plane going down, I'm quite sure my last words would have shocked my mother, but then again, she might have used them too.

I spent twenty three years wearing Air Force blue, and I can honestly say I never heard an angry airman who could begin to compare to what I've heard from the mouth of an angry teenage girl today. The culture has changed to where some folks can't even communicate without every third word being "like" or "f***". I'm a voracious reader of fiction and if the first page attempts to wear out the "F" key, I stop reading and trash the book.

I have no problem with erotica presented to the reader as erotica...different strokes for different folks...but when graphic sex is inserted without need or reason, I feel cheated. Sandra Brown is a prime example of what I mean. She creates interesting plots, brings characters to life, and successfully tugs at the reader's emotions. She's a talented story teller, however, every story she writes contains a chapter or two where she uses the same silly words and phrases to precisely and mechanically describe sexual intercourse. The scenes are not erotic, and for the most part they are literary pornography poorly told.

I recall an instance when a woman who worked on my crew in my civilian job, came up to me after a very tense and frustrating job situation was finally resolved. Her eyes were wide and she said that even though I had kept my temper under control and my voice moderated, that I was more angry than she had ever seen me. When I asked her why, she said she heard me say a strong curse word I had never used before and she understood that I was furious. Curse words used gratuitously are not curse words, they are simply bad manners on display.
 
I have no problem with erotica presented to the reader as erotica...different strokes for different folks...but when graphic sex is inserted without need or reason, I feel cheated. Sandra Brown is a prime example of what I mean. She creates interesting plots, brings characters to life, and successfully tugs at the reader's emotions. She's a talented story teller, however, every story she writes contains a chapter or two where she uses the same silly words and phrases to precisely and mechanically describe sexual intercourse. The scenes are not erotic, and for the most part they are literary pornography poorly told.

Yes, that last bit. In an action/adventure story I agree there is no point to including it at all unless it is somehow tied into the story line. In fact now that I think about it even in Clive Barker's stories the rare graphic sex scenes were important to the plot (i.e. something happens during the sex act to change the plot/dynamic between characters or the scene was freakishly horrifying in some way). He wrote Hellraiser, the story about the woman having sex with the conjured mutant thing in her attic while bringing victims to it.

But badly written sex scenes are just awful. Leading up to it and simply ending the chapter/scene works far better.
 
I believe criticism from readers who do not themselves write is of limited global value. They are usually commenting on their personal preferences because they are unaware of the art involved in writing. I have published a few short stories in local magazines but I have not published any books yet. I am writing one but it is a long way from finished. I seem to have trouble in writing about interactions that are less than ideal because of who I am and my background. I have to work to remember that even the "best" people have "off days" and can mess up communications. That is where my story sits now, three separate interactions that need to be "less than ideal" in order to carry the plot through the encounters. I have rarely experienced less than ideal interactions and mis communications. It is difficult to write what you are not familiar with.
well, with over 3000 published articles in a variety of medium, I would have to disagree with a fundamental part of your argument. It is true that non writers are expressing their personal preferences and that may not be helpful in your writing in some ways but a key writing concept is to know your audience. If they do not like what you write they won’t buy it. Now admittedly you cannot please everyone, but to dismiss comments simply because they are from non writers is imho short sighted at best. Back in the days before “blogging” my online column was running around 30,000 readers a day, that was a big audience in those days, plus the various newspapers and magazines I wrote for. At that I still have plenty to learn about writing. I know others can not write it for me. But I always have time to hear a critic. Like editors, you don’t have to agree with or implement everything that a critic or editor has to say but keep an open mind.
 
I write apocalyptic fiction. One of my stories can be read in the Library here.

Book criticism IS of limited value because everyone likes something different.
My first stories were not edited and contained enough grammatical errors so they were actually hard to read (and I heard about it:)). Then I hired a professional editor and the first reviewer said she liked them better before I got an editor :dunno:. That is when I learned that you cannot please everyone.
I'll have to read it. I'm part of a group started by 12 authors. It's great fun, and they have an audience ready to buy and read most anything they write. Angery American is one if the 12.
 
As a reader, I do not like prolific profanity or exploitive sex in my books. If required for the plot and on a limited bases sure but as space fillers or simply to sell books to the ignorant. Then I will pass. There was a Sci-Fi /Horror author that created a new series with a different and intriguing plot line. Unfortunately it devolved into the main character spending more time in bed, than fighting off the villains . I stopped buying the books. The same attitude applies to movies too. I am tired of all the gratuitous sex in the movies. I don't need to see naked bodies to know the went to bed together. Clothes left on the hallway floor can say the same thing. JM2C
 
I'll have to read it. I'm part of a group started by 12 authors. It's great fun, and they have an audience ready to buy and read most anything they write. Angery American is one if the 12.
Angie, are you part of the "Dirty Dozen Post Apoc Army"????? I read just about everything those 12 authors write!
 

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