Cutting into the shed door header

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Cabin Fever

Cabin Fever

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Our 30' x 50' pole barn has a 10ft wide sliding door on one end. The header for this door is 9' 5" above the concrete floor and made of two 2x10s.

We are considering the purchase of a Class B motorhome that is 9' 8" in height (to the top of the roof-mounted A/C unit). I would like to store the RV in the pole barn.

I'm thinking I could cut a section out of the header that is approximately 3" high and 36" wide. If I did this, how should I bolster the header?

I was thinking of nailing a 2x6 to the posts on either side of the door opening and placing a third 2x10 (with a 3"x36" cut out) on the new 2x6 uprights. Nailing the new header board to the existing header boards. The lumber I would add is shown in red in the side view below.

Would that work? Is it overkill? Other ideas?

Shed-Door.png
 
If it were me I might opt to get a 5 foot by 10 inch piece of 3/16 or 1/4 steel plate. Cut the plate to match the opening and lay it on the inside using long carriage bolts from the outside in and nut em down.

I usually check scrap yards or we have an Alro Steel store here where you can get pieces cut to size.

Just a thought.
 
Curmudgeon said:
If it were me I might opt to get a 5 foot by 10 inch piece of 3/16 or 1/4 steel plate. Cut the plate to match the opening and lay it on the inside using long carriage bolts from the outside in and nut em down.

I usually check scrap yards or we have an Alro Steel store here where you can get pieces cut to size.

Just a thought.
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I was thinking of that as an option, too. I am wondering if all the bolt holes thru the current header might not weaken it? Also wondering if the steel plate would have to be supported by studs on both ends?
 
Can you post a pic of the header from the inside?
 
Cabin Fever said:
I've never seen a rat in Northern Minnesota. Lots of mice, tho. I keep a 5-gallon pail mouse trap in our pole barn all year.
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Well thats good just thought I'd warn you.I first read about the damage the varmits can do on a RV.
 
The most critical area of your header is the depth in the middle. Cutting the bottom of that beam will weaken it way too much. The best fix is to place another beam or build up the beam over the cut section and at least 1-1/2 the depth of the cut and at least as long as twice the length of the cut out section. Glue and screw the build up to the beam and itself securing the built up section solidly to the cut out beam.
If this is a load bearing wall you may need more strength that could call for a steel "I" beam on top to support the wood beam you are cutting.
 
SLADE said:
If it's on the gable end with no load it does not need anything.
Maybe a strip of plywood to beef up the header.
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It is on the gable end. I would imagine there would be some weight-bearing function from the weight of the snow near the end of the shed and on the eaves that extend past the door.
 
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SheepDog said:
The most critical area of your header is the depth in the middle. Cutting the bottom of that beam will weaken it way too much. The best fix is to place another beam or build up the beam over the cut section and at least 1-1/2 the depth of the cut and at least as long as twice the length of the cut out section. Glue and screw the build up to the beam and itself securing the built up section solidly to the cut out beam.
If this is a load bearing wall you may need more strength that could call for a steel "I" beam on top to support the wood beam you are cutting.
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Unless I am misreading your response, what you are suggesting is what I was thinking of doing in my OP. The header is a double 2x10 and was going to place (glue and screw) another 2x10 beam next to the existing two beams, to make a total of three beams. The new header beam would also be supported on the ends with a 2x6 buildup glued and screwed to the posts that exist on either side of the door opening. All three header beams would have the 3" x 36" section cut out of them.
 
OK, the header is on the gable end then it is not a load bearing wall - the load is carried by the walls that support the roof.
When you take a 3 inch chunk that is ?36" long from a 10.25 inch high beam (30%) you have cut the strength by nearly 60%. Adding another piece cut the same way behind it doesn't replace the strength of the beam because you still only have a 7 inch high beam. If you reduce the height of a beam the load capacity is reduced dramatically. a 2x4 can span 5 feet, a 2x6 can go 8 feet and a 2x8 can span 12 feet. (all on 16 inch centers) A double plank can handle slightly more weight but not a longer span by very much. so your cut beam is the same as a 2x8 because the notch is in the middle which takes the highest beam stress. If you notch a 2x8 with a simple 2"x 3" cut in the middle it can span a distance between 5 and 8 feet because it is actually is lower (thinner) than a 2x6 but higher than a 2x4.

On a personal note; I placed a 5.5x11.5 beam that is 10 feet long. It doesn't carry any vertical load but the lateral loads placed on the wall in an earthquake it becomes part of the shear wall that keep the building standing under the sideways movement of the earthquake because it is tied into that walls from the sill plate to the gable end with 3/4 inch sheathing.
 
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Cabin Fever said:
It is on the gable end. I would imagine there would be some weight-bearing function.
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So you're guessing? Take a photo of the gable end from the inside of the barn including the header. Then you can know exactly what is or isn't being supported.

If it's supporting nothing but the door just raise the door frame and header with blocks at the bottom. You could raise it a foot if you want.
 
Cabin Fever said:
It is on the gable end. I would imagine there would be some weight-bearing function from the weight of the snow near the end of the shed and on the eaves that extend past the door.
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Your rafters are suppose to carry that weight.
Any of the above ideas will work.
Bear in mind you now have 2 2x8s not 2x10s.
After you make the cut.
 
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I'd raise the entire header up. I'd hate to have a notched header that if I was off a bit driving in I'd unintentionally take the A/C unit off the roof.

A 4x4 and a bottle jack on each end. Temporary wood screwed to the sides so the Header can't go sidewise. Cutoff saw to shorten the studs above the header. Jack the header up to the new height. Reattach. Smile until you relaize the door is now too short?
 
SLADE said:
Your rafters are suppose to carry that weight.
Any of the above ideas will work.
Bear in mind you now have 2 2x8s not 2x10s.
After you make the cut.
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Actually, in my original plan, I would have the equivalent of three 2x8s (ie, three 2x10s with a notch cut out).
 
Cabin Fever said:
If I raised the header up, I would have to build a new longer door, which I am trying to avoid.
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You're quick. You replied as I edited Post #15 to add a second paragraph.

Which would be cheaper and more convenient? Raising the header AND replacing the barn door or replacing the roof A/C and body work?
 
Pictures would help a lot.

What is the floor of the pole barn?

Could you lower the floor?

Ben
 
I would like to see how the roof is attached to the beam, if there are there vertical supports for the roof in the center you may need to replace or redesign that connection.

What is the vertical clearance of the other cross members in the barn, are you going to have this problem every few feet?

You say it is 30' X 50' barn, so is this door between 1 of 3 10' sections in the barn? If so how the truss is designed will have a big impact on the loading of the beam that you are planning to modify. Here is a quick drawing of 1 possibility, but there are a number of truss designs the work with a 30' span so you need to be very careful about what you are getting yourself into.

1616460043807.png
 
UrbanHunter said:
I would like to see how the roof is attached to the beam, if there are there vertical supports for the roof in the center you may need to replace or redesign that connection.

What is the vertical clearance of the other cross members in the barn, are you going to have this problem every few feet?

You say it is 30' X 50' barn, so is this door between 1 of 3 10' sections in the barn? If so how the truss is designed will have a big impact on the loading of the beam that you are planning to modify. Here is a quick drawing of 1 possibility, but there are a number of truss designs the work with a 30' span so you need to be very careful about what you are getting yourself into.

View attachment 61691
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Good point. I will try to get a photo today. But all the other trusses in the garage are clear span of 30-feet without intermediary support posts.
 
UrbanHunter said:
Looking at your picture, raising the beam over the door would not be too big a problem, but it looks like all the other trusses are going to have clearance issues if you actually drive into to barn.
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Agreed, looks like you have more problems than just the header. Time to measure from the floor to each truss.
 
UrbanHunter said:
Looking at your picture, raising the beam over the door would not be too big a problem, but it looks like all the other trusses are going to have clearance issues if you actually drive into to barn.
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The trusses are spaced at 4 or 5 feet and the A/C unit is near the rear of the RV. So, the A/C would only have to clear the door header> I would not drive the unit in far enough sose where the first truss would become an issue.

Winnebago-Travato-Feature2.jpg
 
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