Dogs - How would you handle?

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haboob

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Messages
159
So a neighbor around here (very rural N Arizona) had a run in with a nearby rancher. Her dog(s) kept getting out and bothering the ranchers livestock....even nipping and injuring them to the point of them needing veterinarian care.

The rancher warned her about it a couple times and the dogs kept 'getting out' .....finally the rancher shot and killed them - which is completely legal in Arizona.

Now the lady is all over Facebook about it....but she neglects to mention all the details. When I saw her original post I found myself siding with her, but then I heard the complete story and that changed my mind.

What would you have done? Was there a better way to handle this?
 
Can't argue with a Karen. They aren't known for understanding the laws or common sense.

Unfortunate incident but it didn't need to come to this. I've been on both sides of this in my life. At the end of the day... when a pet threatens the food on a man's table. It's got to go.
 
Same law applies in Montana. Unfortunately it doesn't cover chickens. As far as humane trapping of dogs.......I guess I haven't seen a big enough live trap for a dog.
I use a smaller live trap for critters that threaten my food or safety of me or my pets on my fenced property. The live trap is then a safe way that i don't miss when dispatching the critters before I bury them.
 
To me, as long as the owner has been given fair warning and sufficient time to get them contained and the dog hasn’t caused grievous harm, then the land owner has a right to defend their stock from a predator.

A few weeks ago I found out that one of my dogs was visiting the neighbor and harassing their chickens while I'm at work. Straight to being tied until I was able to build an escape-proof run. Apparently she only wanders when I'm not home. So when I can't supervise her, she's in the run.
 
Was there a better way to handle this?

Hard to say, some people would take action and control their dogs if they truly cared about them. I would have likely done the same thing.
 
So a neighbor around here (very rural N Arizona) had a run in with a nearby rancher. Her dog(s) kept getting out and bothering the ranchers livestock....even nipping and injuring them to the point of them needing veterinarian care.

The rancher warned her about it a couple times and the dogs kept 'getting out' .....finally the rancher shot and killed them - which is completely legal in Arizona.

Now the lady is all over Facebook about it....but she neglects to mention all the details. When I saw her original post I found myself siding with her, but then I heard the complete story and that changed my mind.

What would you have done? Was there a better way to handle this?
In rural areas, some people let their dogs run. Once the dogs get used to going in one direction, or to one place, it is hard to get them to change that. I know that the rural thing is to put the dogs down.

Options? Catch the dogs (can be a challenge and even dangerous) and then put them on a lead in your (neighbor's) yard making sure the dogs have adequate water.

What about using a bb gun on them?

Bad neighbors exist, and they think they are always in the right and no one else's needs matter. I'd have been sending Karen the vet bills for every injury. Nothing wakes some people up like a bill.

Not even closely related to injuring livestock, but something I witnessed and I've probably talked about here before. A friend was at the dog park with her Doberman who is typically all about chasing balls. One day, on the smaller side of the park, with a fence dividing the two sides, was a pit with docked ears and tail, and a studded collar. That alone says something about some people's mentality. Doberman and pit kept running up and down the fence line, being a bit fierce with each other. The fence between these two sides has horizontal wires that many dogs have been able to pass through. Pit decided to go through the fence line, while its owner said, "You can't get through there." I told her he could and just like that, he went through and attacked the Doberman. Pit's owner stood there and watched, made no move to stop her dog or intervene. Doberman's owner immediately got in the middle of it and worked to separate the pit from her dog. There had been a light skiff of snow, and now there was a large circle where the fight had ensued and the snow had been removed by the three bodies involved rolling around there. Doberman's owner finally got the pit off her dog. Pit's owner comes over, leashes up her dog and heads out, no words exchanged.

Doberman's owner asks what she should do. "Follow her. Take her photo. Take a photo of her dog, vehicle and license plate." Doberman's owner runs out and starts taking photos.

Pit's owner, "What are you doing?"
Doberman's owner "Taking photos, because you are paying for the injuries my dog got."
Pit's owner: "I'm not paying. My dog was injured as well."
Doberman's owner: "Your dog started it. It came through the fence and attacked my dog. My dog is injured and we are going to the vet. You are paying or I am going to the police and reporting that your dog attacked mine. There is a witness who can back me up."
Pit's owner now gets that she might lose her dog and agrees that she will pay, but doesn't want to.
Vet bill was over $400 and pit's owner paid. It could have been much, much worse. After Doberman healed, her owner pulled into the parking lot at the same dog park and who was sitting there in her car? Pit's owner, with pit in the car. Doberman's owner told her she had to leave and not to come back to the park again. I haven't seen her or her dog since. They are probably terrorizing another dog park.

Nothing against pit's, but in that dog park there have been a few incidents where they came in the gate and went into attack mode, once doing major injuries to a small white dog, another time killing one. There have been more incidents. Do other kinds of dogs fight and hurt dogs? Yes. Are all pit's killers and bad dogs? Nope. But once it is seen that a dog is not good around other animals, it is time to get a grip on dealing with them. I know people who have dogs who can never be in dog parks around other dogs, and they are not even partially pits.

This is all the same truth for dogs that run around in the country and wreak havoc on other people's livestock. Get a grip, get your dogs under control, or lose them.
 
If a dog attacks livestock, pets, or people around here they get shot.
In fact you can follow the dog home and kill it on it's porch.
I would never do that but it's legal here.
Also you never shoot to injure, you always shoot to kill because you can be held liable for any injuries.
It is illegal to allow your dogs to roam off leash. $250 fine.
One neighbor lost almost all of his goats to a dog attack. He killed both dogs and buried them. Problem solved except he lost a lot of money.
A rancher killed 2 dogs that were after his cattle. Turned out one of the dogs was the local police K9 that got out of a kennel.
 
I recently put up another 300 ft of field fence because our Great Pyrenees was visiting the cows nextdoor. Not causing harm but that just isn't ok. It sounds like he tried to work with the neighbor with no success. So yeah dirt nap is next.
 
Around here a dog gets one free big mistake. I don't know what the law is that is just the way things are done. When the folks dog bit his second kid I got a phone call. Too bad, I liked that dog.

Karen better grow up and become a responsible pet owner.
 
Yeah, I feel bad for those dogs, being a dog lover....but this is all on the lady who owned them. I posted on that thread that it wasn't all that hard to control your dogs. I got a bunch of whining about that...
 
If Teddy and I are out on a walk, I have to drag him behind me if we get attacked , can't shoot a dog attacking a dog, but come into my yard , or attack me and it's game on. I always carry dog spray/People spray, but have drawn my firearm more than once.

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Your dog crosses 2 fences to get to the chickens, it's already GAME ON.
 
i think the rancher was within his rights legally and morally. he warned her several times and she failed to control her dogs who were causing harm. i totally understand.

another option depending on the county tho, he could have captured them,(-real pia tho) filed charges agasint her for damages. then if she failed again to control her dogs and they attacked his herd, take the next step.

but this was all the dog owners fault.
 
I'd strongly suggest that we all, regardless which side of this situation we may find ourselves, document everything including the first incident, video etc.

Even then, depending on the livestock laws of your state, it may not help your cause. At least being documented no one can dispute the facts.

Some of you may remember 2021 and my situation with cattle here on the farm. I owned the land but not the cattle. There was nothing I could do about starving cows. There was nothing my county sheriff could do either. The laws of many states are designed to protect farmers from frivolous lawsuits. Especially small farmers who could be wiped out fighting bs lawsuits by peta and the like.
 
Hose the dog down with skunk spray and send 'em on home. Call the owner and mention that you saw their dog chasing your animals and are worried that your (larger) animals might hurt the dog if they get frightened. Casually ask, "Oh, and BTW, do you know how to get rid of skunks? 'cause I've got a bunch of 'em on my property and I'm at my wits end - I just can't get rid of 'em!"
 
Does any Law Enforcement agency oversee this type of thing? The rancher confronted the dog owner, and she did nothing to correct the problem. Can the rancher notify law enforcement and have them intervene to stop the problem? Peanut is right. Having all the facts documented including pictures of the injured animals, and a statement from the Vet who had to provide care, and the corresponding invoices for said care, should be sufficient evidence to support the rancher's case. If the rancher pursued all of the legal outlets, and nothing was done IMHO he is perfectly justified to shoot the dog.

A side issue, but I have beeen told by different Vets, that if a dog will attack another animal, it is highly likely to attack a human. This could have been a lot worse.
 
Does any Law Enforcement agency oversee this type of thing? The rancher confronted the dog owner, and she did nothing to correct the problem. Can the rancher notify law enforcement and have them intervene to stop the problem? Peanut is right. Having all the facts documented including pictures of the injured animals, and a statement from the Vet who had to provide care, and the corresponding invoices for said care, should be sufficient evidence to support the rancher's case. If the rancher pursued all of the legal outlets, and nothing was done IMHO he is perfectly justified to shoot the dog.

A side issue, but I have beeen told by different Vets, that if a dog will attack another animal, it is highly likely to attack a human. This could have been a lot worse.
I would imagine that there has to be a local animal control unit that can come and take in domestic animals that are on the loose.

Here, we would call animal control. I wasn't present, but one of the dogs I regularly watch was at a dog park when a dog attacked her. The owner of this dog had only been there 3 or 4 times previously, but spent most of his time bragging about how many cats his dog had killed and how it attacked any other dog who came close. Owner of the dog I watch called Animal Control and they showed up so quickly that people were shocked. A police officer showed up quickly as well. Here there are laws about immunizations, tags, dogs being neutered, etc. That man received a ticket for 1. having an aggressive dog, 2. No city registration tags, 3. Unneutered 3 year old male dog. Ticket cost the man $500. He tried to tell them they couldn't give him that ticket. They gave it to him. He has never been seen at that dog park since.
 
Funny thing, I'm having a minor issue with a wandering dog which belongs to the new "neighbors" across the street... their lot is only fenced on three sides, and my fencing ends at the carport, so there's access to my yard. The dog has wandered over here and I've seen him/her in my yard, but I'm not really worried about a dog that is unaggressive, and so far this dog has not tried to attack any of my cats. Tiger actually faced down this dog, but Tiger is a big bad cat and he'll scratch that dog's eyes out if the dog comes anywhere near him. The dog didn't bark either, which leads me to believe that it's not aggressive: my only concern is the young cats, who might flee and trigger some sort of pursuit. Also, those new neighbors may put up a fence in front of their lot, which would solve the problem, so I'm just gonna give it some time and monitor the situation. I don't want any bad blood between neighbors, so I won't stand on my property rights... yet. The dog---I forgot to check whether it's male or female---seems pretty mellow, just curious about its new surroundings, and frankly, I couldn't care less about the occasional "marking" of my property (haven't seen it happen yet). So we'll see how it goes, it's not a bad-looking dog and it seems quite friendly... no need to blast it. :cool:
 
We keep a tie out under a tree for the neighbor's dog that killed most of our guineas. I call it the tree of shame. After that dog killed 35 to 40 of them, I brought a lead to the neighbor's house, put it on a tree and tied the dog to it. The other neighbor's dog doesn't go after animals, and when I see him on the road, I just bring him back home, put him in the yard and close the gate.
 
Starting when the pup (gsd) was about 3 months old I started letting him in the chicken pen when I was tending them. I was ready for a chase, which of course started. But I stopped it right away. I repeated this often.

Took a few months but he figured it out. Of course he was learning to be around much larger livestock. My donkey let the pup know real quick who was boss in the pasture. But he was learning to herd and most importantly which farm animals belonged where. To understand fences too.

When the pup was about a year and a half I thought he'd lapsed but didn't punish him because something didn't fit that scenario. Dad saw the pup with a dead hen coming from the pen, almost to the house. He doesn't bring rabbits or squirrels, eats them where he can.

I had trained him well so what the pup was doing? He found the first hen out of the pen, caught her. Clearly he was bringing her to me. Why didn't he eat her there? I though maybe he accidentally killed her. Maybe he knew she didn't belong outside the pen and was bringing her to me. I decided to postpone judgement.

A couple days later I heard something on the porch, the pup had brought another hen to the house. She was alive but injured (died next day). He was getting the hang of catching a chicken without hurting them. He wasn't trying to kill the hen but bring her to me just like the first one. He'd learned if animals are where they are supposed to be.

A lot of dog problems could be solved early if the owner understood the dog. I've seen dog owners who would have beaten my dog, called it a chicken killer. Nothing could be further from the truth. He's a german shepherd!!! Doing exactly what he was bred to do, herd.

He barks at large livestock when they get out, always lets me know. He just didn't know what to do with an escaped chicken... 😁

If you're going to have critters, best to understand them.

(took a couple days to figure out how the chickens were getting out)
 
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The owners lucky shes not being prosecuted for cost of livestock. You, as a normal practical human being took the time to get both sides of the story. Anyone else with sense will do the same. Keyboard warriors who side on FB with this eejit -Irish term for fool- aren't worth the trouble. As Lonewolf says, this side of the Atlantic you have a right to shoot the dog. What if it attacked a child?

Having an issue still with a neighbours dog. We fired a shot at it last week and it took off, but is back. The only reason I haven't rang the warden because there's an old retriever from that wanders from a mile away to sleep at another neighbours house, (his people are away all day and he likes company) and I don't want him getting picked up- or you can guarantee it would be the day one of mine escapes :rolleyes:
 
Well, this is weird... some guys drove up across the street last night, there was a discussion of sorts, and the folks in the RV packed up and left, taking their dog with 'em. Will they be back? Who knows? There's still a car parked over there, no idea why... maybe the wandering dog problem has already been solved. Dunno what's going on with the lot, it's not a very nice lot to live on, just bare dirt with utility hookups and a concrete pad where some sorta home used to be. I kinda like it with the lot empty, but I guess the owner is trying to rent it out or sell it. We'll see what happens... I'm just glad I'm on a nicely treed lot, those trees make such a big difference in the yard, providing shade and a windbreak, habitat for wild birds, etc. With all the craziness in this Brave New Fraudulent Third World, I think folks are really struggling to make ends meet, so some come & go because they can't make the rent or whatever... another reason to be thankful for a roof over my head. I didn't mind the wandering dog so much, but the cats are less apprehensive now about going outdoors. :confused:
 

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