Economics,Hyperinflation and more

[elkhound]

How to survive inflation times. (and it is not with precious metals).
Having been thru a couple of different cycles, I can write an article if anyone is interested.

i double dog dare you !....lol..its always good to see others thoughts and experience and then...for me anyway...i glean from it what i think is good or applies to me and toss the bones out after chewing.

in 84 i took a job starting at $7/hr and unlimited OT till fall of 89...i knew i was blessed then,realize it even more as i am older.


i was young in 70's but old enough to know things were tough.growing up on family ranch i was shielded from realities of several things like a roof over your head and 'storehouse' of food...cattle and crops etc.it feels like the 70's to me right now for various reasons.

 

[UrbanHunter]

I remember a time when I could see the train wreck coming in my life. I was shifting from a job that paid $350 a week to one that paid $198 every two weeks. One was nights and the other was a day time job and I worked both for a little while (until the business at the first job closed). I paid off all my debt, bought a bicycle, and shelf stable food. My car was paid off but my apartment rent was $195 a month (this was a long time ago). I only drove the car once a week to do grocery shopping and laundry. Everyday, I rode the bike 2 miles to my day job. It took me almost 2 years to start to recover. Those types of changes really make one realize what is necessary and what is fluff.

I see people today having a hard time, talking on their cell phone and driving a newish car. I can't help but think to myself how ignorant these people are, they have no idea what bad can really look like.

 

[Sam]

 

[Supervisor42]

i double dog dare you !....lol..its always good to see others thoughts and experience and then...for me anyway...i glean from it what i think is good or applies to me and toss the bones out after chewing.

Well, you asked for it!
How to survive inflation times.
This should be titled "How to minimize the screwing coming your way" . It is based only on past experience.
Inflation is when the price of everything climbs and your money becomes worth less and less.
It has always been with us, but has been kept under control for the last decade or two. People forget.
Trying to buy and hoard stuff while it is cheap won't work because most inflation cycles last 4-5 years or more. And prices on most everything never go back down.
There are some things you can do to mitigate the damage. It's more like a list of things you 'fail to do' that will make it worse.

1. Be mindful of your income.
When the economy slows down and inflation takes hold, unemployment rises. Everyone is fearful of leaving the job that they have.
But if their wages don't keep pace with inflation, they work for less and less each year. @Solar Geek touched on this.
What people don't realize, is that when unemployment rises, it represents a rare golden opportunity for good companies to upgrade their workforce. They can finally toss the mediocre workers they got when they were scraping the bottom of the bucket and replace them with great workers, like you. If inflation hits and your wages don't keep pace, look around at other jobs. If you wait, the door closes.

2. Be aware of your savings/liquid assets.
If you have money in a savings account/CD making an awesome 3% interest, with 10% inflation you will 'lose' 7% each year.
It's easy to forget about this because you see the it still 'earning' money even though it is losing ground.
When inflation hits, you have to remember to shop around. Failing to do this can leave you years behind to catch up.
Everybody loves putting their money in 'completely safe' investments, but sometimes it is not the most wise thing to do.
The same goes for 401K accounts. If you have your money in 'stable' investments, inflation will eat it alive. You may not lose as much if you have some of it in more 'risky' investments. (see below)

3. Debt, better now than later.
This may sound strange to many people but it becomes very important if inflation takes hold.
I was around when 12.5% on a loan/mortgage was 'good money' for years as @Solar Geek mentioned.
This may appear as 20/20 hindsight (big pun) but a week ago the going rate for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was 2.66%.
And it hasn't gone up much.... yet.
If the country finally wakes up to the recession that it has been in, those rates will skyrocket faster than inflation.
Don't be caught looking back and saying 'coulda, shoulda'. If you thought about refinancing debt, don't wait until the door has closed.
It may be closed for years.

4. Don't get mad, get even!
Get even, means keeping place with inflation.
To compensate for 10-12% inflation, you may have to come over a little bit to 'The Dark Side'.
If you see companies/utilities that are constantly raising prices/costs, hate them, then buy stock in them.
My first motto was: "If you can't find a solution to a problem, become part of the problem".
That morphed into: "If you can't beat 'em, own 'em!".
Buying stock is no harder than when you signed up to Amazon for the first time and made your first purchase.
Those evil, greedy, companies that are shafting you, will send you part of their loot, known as dividends.
They are going to give it to somebody anyways, why not you?

Edit:
(Oh, and gold is a great hedge against inflation... after it is over. The problem is, when you need it the most, the guy on the corner holding the sign that says: "Hungry, Need Food" is unlikely to give you top-dollar for it).

 

[Neb]

Well, you asked for it!
How to survive inflation times.
This should be titled "How to minimize the screwing coming your way" . It is based only on past experience.
Inflation is when the price of everything climbs and your money becomes worth less and less.
It has always been with us, but has been kept under control for the last decade or two. People forget.
Trying to buy and hoard stuff while it is cheap won't work because most inflation cycles last 4-5 years or more. And prices on most everything never go back down.
There are some things you can do to mitigate the damage. It's more like a list of things you 'fail to do' that will make it worse.

1. Be mindful of your income.
When the economy slows down and inflation takes hold, unemployment rises. Everyone is fearful of leaving the job that they have.
But if their wages don't keep pace with inflation, they work for less and less each year. @Solar Geek touched on this.
What people don't realize, is that when unemployment rises, it represents a rare golden opportunity for good companies to upgrade their workforce. They can finally toss the mediocre workers they got when they were scraping the bottom of the bucket and replace them with great workers, like you. If inflation hits and your wages don't keep pace, look around at other jobs. If you wait, the door closes.

2. Be aware of your savings/liquid assets.
If you have money in a savings account/CD making an awesome 3% interest, with 10% inflation you will 'lose' 7% each year.
It's easy to forget about this because you see the it still 'earning' money even though it is losing ground.
When inflation hits, you have to remember to shop around. Failing to do this can leave you years behind to catch up.
Everybody loves putting their money in 'completely safe' investments, but sometimes it is not the most wise thing to do.
The same goes for 401K accounts. If you have your money in 'stable' investments, inflation will eat it alive. You may not lose as much if you have some of it in more 'risky' investments. (see below)

3. Debt, better now than later.
This may sound strange to many people but it becomes very important if inflation takes hold.
I was around when 12.5% on a loan/mortgage was 'good money' for years as @Solar Geek mentioned.
This may appear as 20/20 hindsight (big pun) but a week ago the going rate for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was 2.66%.
And it hasn't gone up much.... yet.
If the country finally wakes up to the recession that it has been in, those rates will skyrocket faster than inflation.
Don't be caught looking back and saying 'coulda, shoulda'. If you thought about refinancing debt, don't wait until the door has closed.
It may be closed for years.

4. Don't get mad, get even!
Get even, means keeping place with inflation.
To compensate for 10-12% inflation, you may have to come over a little bit to 'The Dark Side'.
If you see companies/utilities that are constantly raising prices/costs, hate them, then buy stock in them.
My first motto was: "If you can't find a solution to a problem, become part of the problem".
That morphed into: "If you can't beat 'em, own 'em!".
Buying stock is no harder than when you signed up to Amazon for the first time and made your first purchase.
Those evil, greedy, companies that are shafting you, will send you part of their loot, known as dividends.
They are going to give it to somebody anyways, why not you?

Edit:
(Oh, and gold is a great hedge against inflation... after it is over. The problem is, when you need it the most, the guy on the corner holding the sign that says: "Hungry, Need Food" is unlikely to give you top-dollar for it).

Nice write-up

Re: debt
I advocate getting out of debt and saving up so we can borrow money from ourselves.

Re: gold
Good for hyperinflation. It's one of thing one hopes they never need and just pass that bit of security to one's heirs.

Re: investments
Get a good advisor that can explain why they are making suggestions. If you don't understand the recommendations don't do it and find someone that can explain. Meet with them regularly.

Adding...
Take on a preppers attitude and purchase more than what you need when it is on sale. You can avoid price spikes and have something for bad times. Example: The Princess broke a flat of chicken noodle soup last night. I pointed out the date code on the flat was from 2016.

Ben

 

[UrbanHunter]

Nice write-up

Re: debt
I advocate getting out of debt and saving up so we can borrow money from ourselves.

Re: gold
Good for hyperinflation. It's one of thing one hopes they never need and just pass that bit of security to one's heirs.

Re: investments
Get a good advisor that can explain why they are making suggestions. If you don't understand the recommendations don't do it and find someone that can explain. Meet with them regularly.

Adding...
Take on a preppers attitude and purchase more than what you need when it is on sale. You can avoid price spikes and have something for bad times. Example: The Princess broke a flat of chicken noodle soup last night. I pointed out the date code on the flat was from 2016.

Ben

Amen Ben,

During the first 6 months of the lock downs we ate anything older than 2019 (I Date Everything when it comes in the house) and restocked when things were available. Right now I am over 100% but I am pushing supplies up a little bit more so I can go without buying for a few months (without depleting my reserves). I am also increasing my home production capabilities to allow me to cut out the middle-men. We have also been working hard to separate our wants from our needs, a penney saved is a penney earned.

A side warning, property crimes increase during high inflationary periods, when people can't afford what they need they often start taking what they want.

 

[Neb]

Amen Ben,

During the first 6 months of the lock downs we ate anything older than 2019 (I Date Everything when it comes in the house) and restocked when things were available. Right now I am over 100% but I am pushing supplies up a little bit more so I can go without buying for a few months (without depleting my reserves). I am also increasing my home production capabilities to allow me to cut out the middle-men. We have also been working hard to separate our wants from our needs, a penney saved is a penney earned.

A side warning, property crimes increase during high inflationary periods, when people can't afford what they need they often start taking what they want.

Well said @UrbanHunter .

I have taken action on that accord.

My place is almost the most humble looking from the outside. It may be the last house to pillage or rob. The gardens are part of that in the theory that why people with sustenance have to their own food.

B8

 

[Supervisor42]

Nice write-up

Re: debt
I advocate getting out of debt and saving up so we can borrow money from ourselves.

We did that a couple of years ago.
..but the SOB charged us 18.9% interest.

 

[UrbanHunter]

We did that a couple of years ago.
..but the SOB charged us 18.9% interest.View attachment 55914

Never borrow from (or do business with) friends or family, especially the Schizophrenic ones,

Sorry @Supervisor42 I couldn't help myself, then again it takes one to know one...

 

[Neb]

We did that a couple of years ago.
..but the SOB charged us 18.9% interest.View attachment 55914

Take it out of your left pocket and put it your right.

Ben

 

[Supervisor42]

Take it out of your left pocket and put it your right.

Ben

Don't knock it until you've tried it.
I made a ton off of the 'prepayment penalty' when they paid it off early .

 

[Neb]

Don't knock it until you've tried it.
I made a ton off of the 'prepayment penalty' when they paid it off early .

Ben

 

[Supervisor42]

Re: investments
Get a good advisor that can explain why they are making suggestions. If you don't understand the recommendations don't do it and find someone that can explain. Meet with them regularly.

Sage advice. This is especially important to people building their 401Ks with absolutely NO HELP!
Making a mistake isn't that bad, unless you don't find about it until 20 years later.
I'm slightly on topic because the thread title does have the word economics in it.
I am still working on a simplified article explaining compounding and why everybody missed it in economics class.
Teaser: Guess what the difference is between an old fart, and a wealthy old fart? Compounding.
If this thread gets too slow, you better look out!

 

[LadyLocust]

Well, you asked for it!
How to survive inflation times.
This should be titled "How to minimize the screwing coming your way" . It is based only on past experience.
Inflation is when the price of everything climbs and your money becomes worth less and less.
It has always been with us, but has been kept under control for the last decade or two. People forget.
Trying to buy and hoard stuff while it is cheap won't work because most inflation cycles last 4-5 years or more. And prices on most everything never go back down.
There are some things you can do to mitigate the damage. It's more like a list of things you 'fail to do' that will make it worse.

1. Be mindful of your income.
When the economy slows down and inflation takes hold, unemployment rises. Everyone is fearful of leaving the job that they have.
But if their wages don't keep pace with inflation, they work for less and less each year. @Solar Geek touched on this.
What people don't realize, is that when unemployment rises, it represents a rare golden opportunity for good companies to upgrade their workforce. They can finally toss the mediocre workers they got when they were scraping the bottom of the bucket and replace them with great workers, like you. If inflation hits and your wages don't keep pace, look around at other jobs. If you wait, the door closes.

2. Be aware of your savings/liquid assets.
If you have money in a savings account/CD making an awesome 3% interest, with 10% inflation you will 'lose' 7% each year.
It's easy to forget about this because you see the it still 'earning' money even though it is losing ground.
When inflation hits, you have to remember to shop around. Failing to do this can leave you years behind to catch up.
Everybody loves putting their money in 'completely safe' investments, but sometimes it is not the most wise thing to do.
The same goes for 401K accounts. If you have your money in 'stable' investments, inflation will eat it alive. You may not lose as much if you have some of it in more 'risky' investments. (see below)

3. Debt, better now than later.
This may sound strange to many people but it becomes very important if inflation takes hold.
I was around when 12.5% on a loan/mortgage was 'good money' for years as @Solar Geek mentioned.
This may appear as 20/20 hindsight (big pun) but a week ago the going rate for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was 2.66%.
And it hasn't gone up much.... yet.
If the country finally wakes up to the recession that it has been in, those rates will skyrocket faster than inflation.
Don't be caught looking back and saying 'coulda, shoulda'. If you thought about refinancing debt, don't wait until the door has closed.
It may be closed for years.

4. Don't get mad, get even!
Get even, means keeping place with inflation.
To compensate for 10-12% inflation, you may have to come over a little bit to 'The Dark Side'.
If you see companies/utilities that are constantly raising prices/costs, hate them, then buy stock in them.
My first motto was: "If you can't find a solution to a problem, become part of the problem".
That morphed into: "If you can't beat 'em, own 'em!".
Buying stock is no harder than when you signed up to Amazon for the first time and made your first purchase.
Those evil, greedy, companies that are shafting you, will send you part of their loot, known as dividends.
They are going to give it to somebody anyways, why not you?

Edit:
(Oh, and gold is a great hedge against inflation... after it is over. The problem is, when you need it the most, the guy on the corner holding the sign that says: "Hungry, Need Food" is unlikely to give you top-dollar for it).

We have discussed this and are hoping to improve our staff. We have 1 fella starting the first of the year- couldn’t handle California any more.

 

[LadyLocust]

Sage advice. This is especially important to people building their 401Ks with absolutely NO HELP!
Making a mistake isn't that bad, unless you don't find about it until 20 years later.
I'm slightly on topic because the thread title does have the word economics in it.
I am still working on a simplified article explaining compounding and why everybody missed it in economics class.
Teaser: Guess what the difference is between an old fart, and a wealthy old fart? Compounding.
If this thread gets too slow, you better look out!

I grew up dirt poor. My parents are awful with money (I love them, good honest people just bad with money). I ended up doing quite a bit of financial research and working at an investment firm. It both befuddles and aggravates me knowing what should be taught in school.

 

[elkhound]

Sage advice. This is especially important to people building their 401Ks with absolutely NO HELP!
Making a mistake isn't that bad, unless you don't find about it until 20 years later.
I'm slightly on topic because the thread title does have the word economics in it.
I am still working on a simplified article explaining compounding and why everybody missed it in economics class.
Teaser: Guess what the difference is between an old fart, and a wealthy old fart? Compounding.
If this thread gets too slow, you better look out!

Regularity is the key to success !

 

[angie_nrs]

I thought this would be a good topic to explore again. With gas and propane prices on the rise, along with everything else, I thought about the 70's (and Carter), mentioned earlier in this thread. Now we have an even more incompetent President. Who would have thought that possible? And......here we go again with inflation!

I have seen products on the shelves rise in price within the last month or so. Sales and clearance deals have been sparce this past year. I looked in my online shopping cart and prices rose in just the last week alone! I have run into product availability issues myself and heard of others having the same issues. I have seen firsthand the lumber and plywood prices at our local stores. It's crazy.

I typically don't watch the evening news b/c it's garbage, but it got left on after hubs watched the local weather and I was busy in the kitchen. There was a segment that Lyin' Lester had on reporting to watch out for surging costs on household staples like toilet paper, feminine hygiene products and detergent. Apparently P&G and Kimberly Clark are raising prices by 10%. It's interesting how they are calling it price increases and not inflation. Again, they are blaming it on the pandemic (amongst other things). When one company rises prices, you know the rest will follow. I've already been seeing the rise in prices, so I didn't need Lyin' Lester to point it out, although he wouldn't be able to stoke fear and try to instigate hoarding without this 'report'. Somehow, I'm thinking we've not heard that last of it. Is he finally moving away from Covid and now is going to poke at the inflation bear to freak out the sheeple?

From what I can see, 10% seems to be the magic number. It looks like many stock dividends are rising by 10% too, if you do a search. That also seems to be about the price increase that I've been noticing on most products. I guess that's why I have an IRA.....to keep up with inflation.

An interesting tid bit......I've spoken with some business owners who are amazed at how much cash they are getting for their goods right now, as opposed to other forms of payment. Some of it looks to be old money too, like the pre blue colored $100 bills. I think people are waking up and spending some of that mattress money before it turns into TP.

At this point it would probably be easier to name things that have not gone up in price than to mention things that have. I'm still continuing to stock up on things now, hoping to get the most out of my cash before it takes a big 10% dive. I hope this isn't just the beginning and that we're not in for a lot more inflation following this initial hike. However, with all the 'stimulus' money going out and the talk of starting Medicare at the age of 50, I just don't think this is the end of it.

 

[Supervisor42]

. I'm still continuing to stock up on things now, hoping to get the most out of my cash before it takes a big 10% dive. I hope this isn't just the beginning and that we're not in for a lot more inflation following this initial hike. However, with all the 'stimulus' money going out and the talk of starting Medicare at the age of 50, I just don't think this is the end of it.

You are correct on both counts. Inflation is a self-feeding phenomenom.
If the price of 'A' goes up, it causes 'B' to go up. If A & B go up, it causes 'C' to go up.
If 'C' goes up, it causes 'A' & 'B' to go up even more, and the cycle repeats until you run out of letters.
For those of us that lived thru the past, we knew when the govt began printing money and handing it out, that the value of our dollars will shrink... for years.
Everybody else was too busy saying: "Look! I got a check!!!"to notice.
Hopefully some were reading these posts back in December and were pro-active, and got their stuff together.
If inflation gets fired off, it will take years to get back under control.
(and it hasn't even got bad yet)
Are you ready for the weekly hunt to try to find gas for less than $4 per gallon?
I remember driving around chanting: "C'mon $3.20! I know you're out there!"

 

[hiwall]

We happened to get the bill today for our yearly house insurance, yes it had gone up almost exactly 10%.

 

[SLADE]

Inflation has been coming on like boiling a frog. None of this is new.

My folks could fill the back of a station wagon with food for about 20 bucks.
I could buy a used VW with no rust for less than a hundred bucks.
A piece of land 4 acres with a nice cabin was about 4000 bucks.
This list goes on and on.

We were able to own what we purchased and we felt poor.

Many today feel rich because they have a good credit score.
Your car payment today is a mortgage. Your house, Your tractor and any other toy, tool or utensil that you do not really own is inflation.

 

[Pearl]

I thought this would be a good topic to explore again. With gas and propane prices on the rise, along with everything else, I thought about the 70's (and Carter), mentioned earlier in this thread. Now we have an even more incompetent President. Who would have thought that possible? And......here we go again with inflation!

I have seen products on the shelves rise in price within the last month or so. Sales and clearance deals have been sparce this past year. I looked in my online shopping cart and prices rose in just the last week alone! I have run into product availability issues myself and heard of others having the same issues. I have seen firsthand the lumber and plywood prices at our local stores. It's crazy.

I typically don't watch the evening news b/c it's garbage, but it got left on after hubs watched the local weather and I was busy in the kitchen. There was a segment that Lyin' Lester had on reporting to watch out for surging costs on household staples like toilet paper, feminine hygiene products and detergent. Apparently P&G and Kimberly Clark are raising prices by 10%. It's interesting how they are calling it price increases and not inflation. Again, they are blaming it on the pandemic (amongst other things). When one company rises prices, you know the rest will follow. I've already been seeing the rise in prices, so I didn't need Lyin' Lester to point it out, although he wouldn't be able to stoke fear and try to instigate hoarding without this 'report'. Somehow, I'm thinking we've not heard that last of it. Is he finally moving away from Covid and now is going to poke at the inflation bear to freak out the sheeple?

From what I can see, 10% seems to be the magic number. It looks like many stock dividends are rising by 10% too, if you do a search. That also seems to be about the price increase that I've been noticing on most products. I guess that's why I have an IRA.....to keep up with inflation.

An interesting tid bit......I've spoken with some business owners who are amazed at how much cash they are getting for their goods right now, as opposed to other forms of payment. Some of it looks to be old money too, like the pre blue colored $100 bills. I think people are waking up and spending some of that mattress money before it turns into TP.

At this point it would probably be easier to name things that have not gone up in price than to mention things that have. I'm still continuing to stock up on things now, hoping to get the most out of my cash before it takes a big 10% dive. I hope this isn't just the beginning and that we're not in for a lot more inflation following this initial hike. However, with all the 'stimulus' money going out and the talk of starting Medicare at the age of 50, I just don't think this is the end of it.

Beautifully said! How quickly this country is sinking!

 

[UrbanHunter]

You are correct on both counts. Inflation is a self-feeding phenomenom.
If the price of 'A' goes up, it causes 'B' to go up. If A & B go up, it causes 'C' to go up.
If 'C' goes up, it causes 'A' & 'B' to go up even more, and the cycle repeats until you run out of letters.
For those of us that lived thru the past, we knew when the govt began printing money and handing it out, that the value of our dollars will shrink... for years.
Everybody else was too busy saying: "Look! I got a check!!!"to notice.
Hopefully some were reading these posts back in December and were pro-active, and got their stuff together.
If inflation gets fired off, it will take years to get back under control.
(and it hasn't even got bad yet)
Are you ready for the weekly hunt to try to find gas for less than $4 per gallon?
I remember driving around chanting: "C'mon $3.20! I know you're out there!"View attachment 63974

Watching the policies being put in place I would wager that by Christmas 2022 we will be praying for $5 a gallon gas... And with the push for a zero carbon (No Coal or Natural Gas) grid I can only imagine what the electric rates are going to look like after the incentives are removed, the politicians are usually smart enought to let that happen after they leave office, say 2025.... Then again we are talking about a world run by the likes of Biden, AOC, PIGGYOC.

 

[Pearl]

Watching the policies being put in place I would wager that by Christmas 2022 we will be praying for $5 a gallon gas... And with the push for a zero carbon (No Coal or Natural Gas) grid I can only imagine what the electric rates are going to look like after the incentives are removed, the politicians are usually smart enought to let that happen after they leave office, say 2025.... Then again we are talking about a world run by the likes of Biden, AOC, PIGGYOC.

There just is not anyone thinking things through! Think of all the toxic batteries for electric cars, and where do they think electricity comes from, out of thin air?! Thinking of the short term only.

 

[hiwall]

Watching the policies being put in place I would wager that by Christmas 2022 we will be praying for $5 a gallon gas

Boy, I sure hope you are correct that gas at the end of 2022 is only $5 per gallon.

 

[elkhound]

i was getting low on bolts for my 3pt tiller. i order 2 bags bolts and 1 bag of nylon nuts to have same amount of bolts/nuts on hand. with shipping charge...$94

 

[Supervisor42]

We happened to get the bill today for our yearly house insurance, yes it had gone up almost exactly 10%.

Maybe I can cheer you up.
Be glad you aren't getting homeowner's insurance down here in 'hurricane alley'.
Guess who pays for those roofs that have all the shingles stripped off?
That be us

.
One year - $3,500.
(3br, 2ba ordinary house) Don't know how much it went up this year, but a lot.

 

[elkhound]

i just looked at old bag,the receipt was in there from 10 years ago...25bolts $17 and change. same bolt this time 25bolt pack $29.

 

[elkhound]

 

[Pearl]

Crazy isn't?! A few years back when a hurricane came through the Gulf of Mexico, the local news reported there would be gasoline shortage. There wasn't, but everyone (who listens media) rushed to the gas pumps. I think somet things happen because the government wants them to happen!

 

[viking]

In early 2001 my wife and I went to an off shore conference on economics and Constitutional issues, believe me, it was a huge eye opener and when we came home we changed everything we were doing wrong economically, we got out of a $50,000 credit card debt as well as any other debt we had at that time, we already paid off our property and vehicles, contrary to what a lot of people believe, payments really don't help reduce IRS taxes, after we made all the changes we realized that each dollar we had spent more like it was a 10 dollar bill. We watch Greg Hunter's USA Watch Dog videos and he hammers on getting your vehicles paid for and getting good tires and fixing things so that you won't have to deal with those things when everything goes bad economically. The really sad thing to realize is that the percentage of people who really know what's going on and are doing something about it is very small, I'd say generally below 15% of the population. During the mortgage mess of 2008 we heard statements from people who knew what they were talking about, saying that the true debt and derivatives was around $125 quadrillion, that's fifteen zeros behind the $125, most people have no concept of that kind of money, and by the way, that mess was never straightened out and I just heard yesterday on the evening news that the average cost of a home is now over $300,000 across the US. The minimum wage raise is not going to get anyone into a home unless it's one of those mini homes and that is questionable. Even travel trailer prices have gone out of sight, let alone how much a pickup that is capable of towing it would cost, you're not living in your grandparents world anymore, so don't complain if you are 40 some years of age and live with your parents, be grateful you have a roof over your head and food on the table.