Electric fence wire fence stapled to trees as 'fenceposts'. Will it work?

[777funk]

We're consiering raising a few pigs in our woods. Will a tree be good enough of a conductor to drain my high voltage on the fence?

I'm thinking of using small snippets of poly or reinforced rubber tubing as 'insulators' over the fence staple but if the tree is enough of an insulator I may skip this. Curious if anyone has tried this before and if it worked?

 

[Biggkidd]

Yes trees weeds grass almost anything will draw away from the current if it isn't insulated with a NON conductive IE: ceramic plastic etc.

 

[hiwall]

Sure would be handy if it worked that way. It doesn't of course.

 

[Neb]

Sure would be handy if it worked that way. It doesn't of course.

Insulated stand offs?

Ben

 

[Biggkidd]

Something to keep in mind higher voltages jump easier and farther than 12 volt or 120 volt or 240 volt. If you notice a lot of household use wire will be rated up to 600 volts because voltages over that can and will shoot right trough the insulation. That's why fencing insulators hold the wire off of the post an inch or so... Most fence chargers are 5,000-20,000 volts

 

[Peanut]

I almost never use trees as fence posts. 20 or 30 years from now you may need to cut timber or take a couple trees for firewood etc. A piece of metal in a tree (long grown over) will ruin a saw chain before you realize you've hit metal. That's $30 down the drain.

My family came to this farm in the 1880's. Over the years I've ruined several saw chains because someone 40/60/80 years ago, nailed something to a tree. Even professional loggers won't touch a line of trees that looks like they were used as a fence.

There have been times and situations that I didn't have a choice but to use a tree. I always try to use a long metal spike to mark the tree so its obvious there is metal in the wood years after I've forgotten it.

Things change on a farm over the years. No matter your intentions now fence locations change from time to time.

 

[Neb]

I almost never use trees as fence posts. 20 or 30 years from now you may need to cut timber or take a couple trees for firewood etc. A piece of metal in a tree (long grown over) will ruin a saw chain before you realize you've hit metal. That's $30 down the drain.

My family came to this farm in the 1880's. Over the years I've ruined several saw chains because someone 40/60/80 years ago, nailed something to a tree. Even professional loggers won't touch a line of trees that looks like they were used as a fence.

There have been times and situations that I didn't have a choice but to use a tree. I always try to use a long metal spike to mark the tree so its obvious there is metal in the wood years after I've forgotten it.

Things change on a farm over the years. No matter your intentions now fence locations change from time to time.

I have seen sawyers and loggers use metal detectors before sawing.

Ben

 

[Spikedriver]

You can buy insulators that are made to be nailed to trees, posts, buildings, etc. They have a little metal bracket in them that the nail goes through. That would be better than any "Bubba" solution.

There's a couple things to keep in mind. #1, trees grow. Your fence may move vertically, and faster than you think. #2, trees drop branches, and when one comes down on an electric fence you lose your current. Generally it's better to cut trees down around electric fences rather than use them as part of the fence...

 

[777funk]

I figured it may be a problem since you can measure a resistance in green lumber.

I wonder how rain on insulators and the post they're attached to going to the ground (trail of moisture from the conductor to ground) effects line voltage.

 

[Spikedriver]

I figured it may be a problem since you can measure a resistance in green lumber.

I wonder how rain on insulators and the post they're attached to going to the ground (trail of moisture from the conductor to ground) effects line voltage.

On steel T posts, it doesn't seem to be that much. I've seen a horse take a pretty good zap from a fence during a heavy drizzle than was enough to thoroughly soak everything...Mainly, the problem with branches coming down is that they take the fence down with them and ground it out.

 

[Neb]

I figured it may be a problem since you can measure a resistance in green lumber.

I wonder how rain on insulators and the post they're attached to going to the ground (trail of moisture from the conductor to ground) effects line voltage.

The space alien shape of the insulators you see on power lines is used to prevent rain water from streaming down the sides.

Ben

 

[hiwall]

trees grow. Your fence may move vertically,

Ah, no the fence would not move vertically or at least very little. Only the top of trees get higher.

 

[Spikedriver]

Ah, no the fence would not move vertically or at least very little. Only the top of trees get higher.

I've seen it happen. Not that far, maybe 5" at most, but it does happen. I've seen the tree grow around the insulator too, in a fast growing tree like a soft maple. Not sure if a hardwood would do that or not...

Another way to attach insulators to a tree is to wrap a length of wire around the tree and staple it. Then attach a corner insulator to the wire. Wrap the live wire around the corner insulated if necessary to keep the wire in the insulator.

 

[Neb]

I've seen it happen. Not that far, maybe 5" at most, but it does happen. I've seen the tree grow around the insulator too, in a fast growing tree like a soft maple. Not sure if a hardwood would do that or not...

Another way to attach insulators to a tree is to wrap a length of wire around the tree and staple it. Then attach a corner insulator to the wire. Wrap the live wire around the corner insulated if necessary to keep the wire in the insulator.

Then one has a buried cable in the log.

If we are looking for an ideal using wooden dowel pins to secure the insulators would be a solution.

Drill a hole for the dowel.

Ben

 

[Hardcalibres]

Another thing not mentioned yet......when a hot wire arcs continuously like when in contact with a tree, it burns the zinc galvanized corrosion protection off the wire. The wire then rusts quickly and eventually snaps.

A substantial proportion of wire failures in my fences have been where the hot wire was touching some sort of vegetation.

 

[Spikedriver]

Another thing not mentioned yet......when a hot wire arcs continuously like when in contact with a tree, it burns the zinc galvanized corrosion protection off the wire. The wire then rusts quickly and eventually snaps.

A substantial proportion of wire failures in my fences have been where the hot wire was touching some sort of vegetation.

I use aluminum wires for this reason. Of course it won't last forever, but it does hold up to moisture. Aluminum being more conductive, it conducts the zap a bit better too...

 

[joel]

 

[Tirediron]

If you are going to make a temporary fence screwing stand off insulators to a tree should work ok.

 

[777funk]

If you are going to make a temporary fence screwing stand off insulators to a tree should work ok.

That's exactly what we're doing. I have a 30x10 rough rectangle setup between cedars and hardwoods. I put it next to a brush pile to have a natural barrier for deer (so they won't run into the elec fence). I cut 3/4" pex into several 3" pieces set vertically against the tree, screwed 1/2" from the both ends into the tree using 2 1/2" drywall screws. In the center I ran holes horizontally for the wire to pass through. Feels pretty solid. Hopefully it'll keep the wire insulated well enough. I have a 30 mile ParMak charger that I acquired long ago that I'll be using for this small fence.

I'll be rotating sections of woods as they soil it, much like we do with our chicken tractor. I like the way Joel has the rotation set up. I didn't realize that wood gates would be needed since they remember an area they would be shocked at and won't walk through a new electric fence opening..

 

[Aerindel]

I'm thinking of using small snippets of poly or reinforced rubber tubing as 'insulators' over the fence staple but if the tree is enough of an insulator I may skip this. Curious if anyone has tried this before and if it worked?

They actually sell plastic tube insulators for this.

No, the tree is not enough of an insulator.

 

[viking]

I almost never use trees as fence posts. 20 or 30 years from now you may need to cut timber or take a couple trees for firewood etc. A piece of metal in a tree (long grown over) will ruin a saw chain before you realize you've hit metal. That's $30 down the drain.

My family came to this farm in the 1880's. Over the years I've ruined several saw chains because someone 40/60/80 years ago, nailed something to a tree. Even professional loggers won't touch a line of trees that looks like they were used as a fence.

There have been times and situations that I didn't have a choice but to use a tree. I always try to use a long metal spike to mark the tree so its obvious there is metal in the wood years after I've forgotten it.

Things change on a farm over the years. No matter your intentions now fence locations change from time to time.

I have a large Madrone stump that has a lot of good burnable dry wood in it, thing is, is that a long time ago there was a barbed wire fence the tree grew over, it's even hard to find the old wires with a metal detector so it sits unused until I can figure how to find the wires and not ruin a saw chain.

 

[Peanut]

I don't bother with such stumps, they're not worth the price of a saw chain or an axe. They make a good base for a brush pile. When the time is right I burn it.

If I have to drop a tree I just cut it about 6ft up, above the wire. The stump will rot eventually.

 

[Magus]

Just use rebar, double protection and far cheaper than posts.

 

[Tirediron]

I have a crap load of old trees with barbwire grown into them, not real handy when the get to where they should be dropped, but as mentioned, not taking that chance. in a bind I think I would screw a 2x4 or something to the tree, then attach the wire, and hopefully remember to remove it in a reasonable time.