Freeze Drying

[Double R]

The freeze drier has finally arrived after many delays.
It’s unpacked and done it’s required “resting”.
Ran the required tests with faster than expected results. So far so good.
Test batch of bread is in now. They say it tests the unit and gets the “new car smell” out. Now to decide what the first official batch will be. So much waiting in the freezer ready to go.

So far this thing is far quieter than expected. We went with the premier pump. The “oil less pump” is deceptive. Far more expensive and “maintenance free” is only for the owner. It must be sent back (shipping paid at owners expense) for a service when needed. The premier pump only has to be changed every 20-30 batches depending on the look of the oil. So far they are right about it being fairly quiet. Maybe in a house situation it might be considered loud but nothing like I was expecting so far. This pump is supposed to be the quietest of the options.
Will post updates as we go.

 

[Camalot]

Good decision on a freeze dryer. I also have been looking into acquiring one. The technology has come a long way in just a few years. Good choice in your pump selection also.

 

[Double R]

The information on how the cycles work is a bit confusing but we will figure it out. This is still the bread “test” run.
From the dozens of videos I’ve watched this “updated” software is definitely more efficient.
We are still confused as to when it will be done and when to add time so we don’t have to get up in the middle of the night and package food. The times so far aren’t matching what the book says but maybe that’s because it’s just simple bread.
This run is just shy of 9 hours so far. Think there should be a “final dry time” cycle still at the least. Haven’t heard of any cycles under 20+ hours.
Will update again later.

 

[Bacpacker]

Very cool Double R. A freeze dryer is high on our need to get list good choice on the pump as well.
I don't recall the price of the pumps but that may be a need to have spare for down the road. Plenty of oil for changes too.

 

[Double R]

Very cool Double R. A freeze dryer is high on our need to get list good choice on the pump as well.
I don't recall the price of the pumps but that may be a need to have spare for down the road. Plenty of oil for changes too.

After all the delays we decided we’d make sure it worked well before we bought another pump etc. Also make sure we were happy with our pump choice. That is definitely the plan though. Have to research still if buying the pumps is best through them or other places. They do give you a 10% discount offer on your next purchase after the drier has shipped. May use that for a second pump and extra supplies.

 

[Neb]

After all the delays we decided we’d make sure it worked well before we bought another pump etc. Also make sure we were happy with our pump choice. That is definitely the plan though. Have to research still if buying the pumps is best through them or other places. They do give you a 10% discount offer on your next purchase after the drier has shipped. May use that for a second pump and extra supplies.

Thank you for the updates.

They help me prepare for the road ahead.

Ben

 

[Double R]

Thank you for the updates.

They help me prepare for the road ahead.

Ben

I’m not sure what everyone who’s been asking wants to know so please let me know if I’m not answering questions that I can answer.
I haven’t gotten a power tool yet but there are tons of online videos for that so I haven’t been to worried about that yet.

Currently on the bread run. Can definitely feel cold around the seal and some condensation. I would definitely consider the condensation when decided where to put one.

It has dripped a bit under the front of the machine. Doesn’t matter for us where we have it but may for others in houses.

 

[Double R]

Just checked the drier again.
It’s currently 94* outside in the shade but definitely cooler in the barn. Need to put a thermometer in there I guess. We already have a fan on the pump which also pushes air towards the drier itself. New message on the screen.

 

[Neb]

Just checked the drier again.
It’s currently 94* outside in the shade but definitely cooler in the barn. Need to put a thermometer in there I guess. We already have a fan on the pump which also pushes air towards the drier itself. New message on the screen.
View attachment 73191

Does the indicator reflect the vacuum pump temp?

Ben

 

[Double R]

Does the indicator reflect the vacuum pump temp?

Ben

It does not. The pump is only plugged into the unit to power the pump on demand. Nothing else.

 

[Double R]

Bread run complete. Zero moisture detected by the moisture meter.

 

[Neb]

View attachment 73215
Bread run complete. Zero moisture detected by the moisture meter.

Did it take 30 hours?

Be

 

[Double R]

Did it take 30 hours?

Be

Top right corner of the screen is the time it took. The bread batch was 20 hours 5 min 53 seconds.

 

[Double R]

Freeze dried bread from the test batch.

Next batch is now in. Doing a full load of cantaloupe from the garden I cut up and froze while we waited for the unit to come. Some say freeze dried cantaloupe is really good. Some say it isn’t. Looking forward to seeing how it does. Thinking worst case I can grind it up for smoothies.

Hubby said I hadn’t named the machine. So now it has a name. I was pretty proud of my creativity! He laughed, shook his head and walked away

 

[Bacpacker]

Never had FD cantaloupe. But I love dehydrated. If its close to that it'll be a treat

 

[Double R]

Never had FD cantaloupe. But I love dehydrated. If its close to that it'll be a treat

I tried to dehydrate some this season and it didn’t come out good at all. We actually ended up giving it to the goats. Not sure why it wasn’t good.

 

[Double R]

Tried to stay up to see when this was done. Couldn’t make it. This morning it was beeping saying it was done.

Thankful I got a moisture meter recommended by several youtubers. Felt dry but unlike the bread that tested at 0.0 this varied from 0.0 to 6.6. So not done.

Closed back up and pressed more dry time.

It adds 2 hours but I added more to coincide with my morning schedule. One thing so far I’m not impressed with is the directions. I feel they are lacking. Is it moist because it was done but I wasn’t there to check it? It goes into freeze mode once done to keep it while it waits. Does this introduce moisture back into it? How do you know when it will end so you can make sure to extend the dry time if you won’t be there when it’s done because you don’t know when it will actually be done? Lots of questions I’m sure we’ll figure out but after a lot of research over years and especially the last few months I don’t feel like I’ve learned anything useful for running the machine.
Also the oil level on the pump was WAY down after this batch. A huge amount has settled in the top. Went to add more oil and it came pouring out of the trap. Made quite a mess.

Did taste a piece before restarting and everyone online is right. It sure intensifies the flavors. It’s VERY flavorful. Not 100% sure it’s a winner. It does crunch nicely though.

 

[goshengirl]

Really appreciate the play-by-play you've got going here! Thank you for taking the time to take us with you through your learning experience!

 

[Neb]

Is

Tried to stay up to see when this was done. Couldn’t make it. This morning it was beeping saying it was done.View attachment 73269

View attachment 73271View attachment 73273
Thankful I got a moisture meter recommended by several youtubers. Felt dry but unlike the bread that tested at 0.0 this varied from 0.0 to 6.6. So not done. View attachment 73272
Closed back up and pressed more dry time.
View attachment 73274
It adds 2 hours but I added more to coincide with my morning schedule. One thing so far I’m not impressed with is the directions. I feel they are lacking. Is it moist because it was done but I wasn’t there to check it? It goes into freeze mode once done to keep it while it waits. Does this introduce moisture back into it? How do you know when it will end so you can make sure to extend the dry time if you won’t be there when it’s done because you don’t know when it will actually be done? Lots of questions I’m sure we’ll figure out but after a lot of research over years and especially the last few months I don’t feel like I’ve learned anything useful for running the machine.
Also the oil level on the pump was WAY down after this batch. A huge amount has settled in the top. Went to add more oil and it came pouring out of the trap. Made quite a mess.
View attachment 73275
Did taste a piece before restarting and everyone online is right. It sure intensifies the flavors. It’s VERY flavorful. Not 100% sure it’s a winner. It does crunch nicely though.

Is the drying time a setting you set or is automatic based on a sensor?

Since bread is a lot of air and cantaloupe is mostly water longer dry time seems to be expected.

Ice cream being almost all water may be a good worse case test.

The amount of stuff in each batch may also be a factor.

Just thinking out loud.

Thank you for the reports!

Ben

 

[Double R]

Is

Is the drying time a setting you set or is automatic based on a sensor?

Since bread is a lot of air and cantaloupe is mostly water longer dry time seems to be expected.

Ice cream being almost all water may be a good worse case test.

The amount of stuff in each batch may also be a factor.

Just thinking out loud.

Thank you for the reports!

Ben

I am seeing that they aren’t updating their directions as they update the software. At least on this one it’s not exactly the same as what the book says. However the answer is both technically. This page I found online. Probably answer your thoughts better than I can explain.
I expected more time for the melon. Expect even longer with watermelon as that’s most all water. What’s frustrating is there’s so much time variations and no way of knowing even an estimate. My current question is when the system thinks it’s done and goes into freeze mode is that allowing moisture to go back into the “product” if it sits for hours because I don’t know it’s done? It’s a bit confusing. It not the end of the world. I’ll check the moisture levels and add more time (then knowing when to check it again) if needed. A lot of people doing reviews online automatically add extra dry time knowing they will be at work or sleeping. Does this new software update which does seem much different than the older videos I’m watching online (pre this software update) set it into freezing mode which is different from previous settings? Unknown. Some online say if the trays are cold (machine is in freezer mode) that it’s not done. The book says this is normal for freezer mode once the drying process is complete. Not sure I’m making sense with my questions. Like you, thinking out loud as well.

 

[Double R]

Cantaloupe update:

These tray stackers are worth the price. Both for pre freezing the trays and bringing them in.

Not super impressed with the harvestright Mylars. The bottomed doesn’t stand up. Will be looking for mylars that open on the bottom to stand up I think. Ended up having one package slide off the counter and spill. Put some in a large canning jar and vacuum sealed with an oxygen absorber to sit on the counter for everyone to try. May try and rehydrate some later and try some as is in a smoothie.

 

[Double R]

Defrost observations:
In between batches you have to defrost the machine. There’s 2 options. Let the machine do it which takes a few hours and makes the inside of the machine hot. This option would be fine if I wasn’t trying to get another batch in asap. Online many have shown putting a fan (which I already have blowing on the pump and unit while it’s running) on the inside of the machine and allowing it to thaw that way. This is working well so far.
Here’s pictures of the inside of the chamber as soon as I pulled the trays.

I let the fan do it’s thing for a bit then came back out and was able to pull the majority of the ice out in a big chunk. Let the water drain and have now started another batch. Definitely the way to go if your trying to back to back batches quickly.
I did run into a draining issue we will need to address. I will post about it when we figure it out. Thinking perfectly level isn’t the way to go. Everything is flooded from the front not the drain in the back. Also may be the way we have the drain line run. Will update as we figure it out.

 

[Double R]

Beef bone broth:
Pre frozen on the trays.
I forgot to weight the trays before loading them yesterday. I’ll try and remember to do that. 1# 9.3 oz seems to be average tray weight on the second set I have waiting to be loaded.

Total weights include tray weights.
Tray 1- 3# 3.5oz
Tray 2- 3# 0.7oz
Tray 3- 3# 2.1oz
Tray 4- 3# 5.0oz
I could have loaded more on the trays I think. I don’t see anything in the books about the amount you can (weight wise) load the trays with. Just says not to load more than the top of the trays. Some online says there is weight maximums. Going to have to research this more I think. Filled these light till I figure it out.

 

[Neb]

Beef bone broth:
Pre frozen on the trays.
I forgot to weight the trays before loading them yesterday. I’ll try and remember to do that. 1# 9.3 oz seems to be average tray weight on the second set I have waiting to be loaded.
View attachment 73309View attachment 73310
Total weights include tray weights.
Tray 1- 3# 3.5oz
Tray 2- 3# 0.7oz
Tray 3- 3# 2.1oz
Tray 4- 3# 5.0oz
I could have loaded more on the trays I think. I don’t see anything in the books about the amount you can (weight wise) load the trays with. Just says not to load more than the top of the trays. Some online says there is weight maximums. Going to have to research this more I think. Filled these light till I figure it out.

I would believe amount of water is going to be the primary factor followed by the thickness of the slices. So to start go for uniform thin slices. You can fiddle with different thicknesses later.

Those instructions read like tou can adjust the first and final step but not the drying cycle. I will guess the pressure is being monitored and the vacuum pump is cycled to keep the pressure near 500 mTorr.

It will try keep the pressure and temp in the lower left of the water phase diagram where sublimation takes place. As the ice sublimates it turns into gas and the pressure goes up. The vacuum repeats to suck out the water vapor. When the vacuum slows down the cycling it indicates most of the water is gone.

So much for 5he drying part of the game...

Since you are prefreezeing the first part of the process is reducing the temp from your freezer temp down to -50 were sublimation can take place. You may want to monitor how long it takes to get down to -50. That can give a clue as to how much heat energy the freezer can remove how fast. You divide the time to get too -50 per pound of water. That ratio can help you predict the first step needs to be. Multiply tour ratio times the pounds of water and the answer should tell how much time for the first step.

I will also guess that the time of the last step will let you adjust for thicker slices. Good you trying out the stock now since that should be consistent.

I have babbled on too long and too technical I am sure.

Ben

 

[Double R]

I was very surprised to hear the beeping of the machine when I went to get the mail. I figured the beef bone broth would have taken a long time. Total time- 21 hours 24 minutes 52 seconds.

Tray 1 Frozen- 3# 3.5oz = Freeze dried- 1# 14.8oz
Tray 2 Frozen- 3# 0.7oz = Freeze dried- 1# 13.9oz
Tray 3 Frozen- 3# 2.1oz = Freeze dried- 1# 14.1oz
Tray 4 Frozen- 3# 5.0oz = Freeze dried- 1# 15.2oz




Should I keep these posts up for a while or have y’all gotten enough? I’ll keep posting them as I’m doing different things for a bit if everyone wants.
Tip for dry goods in a food processor/blender, a piece of plastic wrap under the lid works wonders for keeping things you powder from getting into all the nooks and crannies of the lid.
My dogs get bone broth daily in their meals so this will be used fairly fast. Still added an oxygen observer to the two vacuum sealed jars. The 3rd (partial jar) will be opened daily so didn’t add one to that jar.
This will empty so much space in the freezer when I’ve caught up. Will also put some away for us to use but the majority is for the dogs.

 

[Neb]

I was very surprised to hear the beeping of the machine when I went to get the mail. I figured the beef bone broth would have taken a long time. Total time- 21 hours 24 minutes 52 seconds.

Tray 1 Frozen- 3# 3.5oz = Freeze dried- 1# 14.8oz
Tray 2 Frozen- 3# 0.7oz = Freeze dried- 1# 13.9oz
Tray 3 Frozen- 3# 2.1oz = Freeze dried- 1# 14.1oz
Tray 4 Frozen- 3# 5.0oz = Freeze dried- 1# 15.2oz

View attachment 73337
View attachment 73338View attachment 73339
View attachment 73340
Should I keep these posts up for a while or have y’all gotten enough? I’ll keep posting them as I’m doing different things for a bit if everyone wants.
Tip for dry goods in a food processor/blender, a piece of plastic wrap under the lid works wonders for keeping things you powder from getting into all the nooks and crannies of the lid.
My dogs get bone broth daily in their meals so this will be used fairly fast. Still added an oxygen observer to the two vacuum sealed jars. The 3rd (partial jar) will be opened daily so didn’t add one to that jar.
This will empty so much space in the freezer when I’ve caught up. Will also put some away for us to use but the majority is for the dogs.

I will read more.

Looks like about 6 lbs of water removed leaving about 1 lb of dehydrated broth.

Did you notice how long it got down to -50?

Ben

 

[goshengirl]

This is awesome, @Double R. I'd love it if you'd keep going with different items. As long as you don't mind. What I like most is seeing the before and the after, getting a sense of what types of foods you're doing and how it's done, and any tricks (like with the blender).

 

[Double R]

@Neb
I did not. It was still freezing when I went to bed. Done at my next check when I heard it beeping.
I got 5# 1.3oz

 

[Double R]

This is awesome, @Double R. I'd love it if you'd keep going with different items. As long as you don't mind. What I like most is seeing the before and the after, getting a sense of what types of foods you're doing and how it's done, and any tricks (like with the blender).

Will do. Next batch is in the freezer waiting. Have to adjust the freeze drier setup before starting another load. This load will be different though. I had pre frozen the items in molds to try and see if they will be easier for jar storage and smaller amount usage. Will post it later this evening once it’s in.

 

[Neb]

@Neb
I did not. It was still freezing when I went to bed. Done at my next check when I heard it beeping.
I got 5# 1.3oz

I was only asking to see if you can shorten the first phase for a
Pre-frozen
Mostly liquid

Batch.

Ben