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Grid Down Preps
- Thread starter Caribou
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Unused, shielded solar panels would be more likely to survive an EMP.
That is my understanding as well, solar panels are not generally impacted by EMP/CME as long as they are disconnected. Of course, I never fully trust anything I stumble upon in the internet. To be safe, I have a good backup panel tucked away. I probably need another…
Will solar panels survive a nuclear EMP (and dear God, why do we have to think about this?)
The E1 pulse is a super fast voltage that ramps to 50000 volts. It destroys any junction of semiconductors unless the devices are made to run at those voltages. What is a photo voltaic panel? It is a tile with a bunch of large diameter diodes built to collect photons and exchange them with electrons. Each diode makes .3 to .5 volts. What will happen when it is inundated with 50000 volts?
The same thing will happen whether it is connected or on a shelf in it's factory packaging. The junction of each cell is going to be burned out. You don't need any wires connected because the air is the only conductor necessary.
In the long run it won't matter because nothing with electronics is going to function any way. Your appliances all have electronics in them so they won't work. Since you went all green and use LED lights they won't function. No radio, computer, clock, phone, or any other consumer grade electronics will function unless you protect it with a E1 shield. You can only protect it if it is not in use. I have only two things that are protected; one laptop with a duplicate OS to what I currently use and an external drive that I keep updated with my data files. I will use it only as I would a book and record of my information from buildings plans to reloading records. I don't use digital scales or measuring devices so I can continue to assemble ammo to keep my stock up or until I run out of components. None of my tools require digital controls so a steam engine will keep my shop running. I can use my stock of metals and wood to build with. I have more than enough hand tools for jobs big and small. I don't plan to have anymore electricity than it takes to keep the laptop battery charged for those times when I need it. There won't be any internet so I will only use the computer on the rare times when I need to look up information.
The same thing will happen whether it is connected or on a shelf in it's factory packaging. The junction of each cell is going to be burned out. You don't need any wires connected because the air is the only conductor necessary.
In the long run it won't matter because nothing with electronics is going to function any way. Your appliances all have electronics in them so they won't work. Since you went all green and use LED lights they won't function. No radio, computer, clock, phone, or any other consumer grade electronics will function unless you protect it with a E1 shield. You can only protect it if it is not in use. I have only two things that are protected; one laptop with a duplicate OS to what I currently use and an external drive that I keep updated with my data files. I will use it only as I would a book and record of my information from buildings plans to reloading records. I don't use digital scales or measuring devices so I can continue to assemble ammo to keep my stock up or until I run out of components. None of my tools require digital controls so a steam engine will keep my shop running. I can use my stock of metals and wood to build with. I have more than enough hand tools for jobs big and small. I don't plan to have anymore electricity than it takes to keep the laptop battery charged for those times when I need it. There won't be any internet so I will only use the computer on the rare times when I need to look up information.
I recently installed a EMP Shield on the grid panel and one on the solar controller and as soon as we can we'll get one for the 2005 Sienna and one for the 2007 Tundra. They are made to run on the voltage that they are designed for, they are from Stan Deyo's website and they are easy to install.
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Well I am starting to gather supplies to build my long term low power back-up system, I have wire and connectors, I have a few batteries, and an assortment of inverters.
I still need to get the brackets and solar panels, hopefully by the end of September I can have a few on hand. Then I just need to make a frame with sliders that I can quickly mount them to. I have a 20' shed that has the right angles but making it all so it can be a one man operation will be the key for me...... I remember my grand father made a crank lift to put an aluminum boat on top of his truck, so that might be one way to address the problem. I will have to visualize it all together before I start building it...
I still need to get the brackets and solar panels, hopefully by the end of September I can have a few on hand. Then I just need to make a frame with sliders that I can quickly mount them to. I have a 20' shed that has the right angles but making it all so it can be a one man operation will be the key for me...... I remember my grand father made a crank lift to put an aluminum boat on top of his truck, so that might be one way to address the problem. I will have to visualize it all together before I start building it...
The good thing is that when it comes to EMPs, the vast well of misinformation on the internet isn't likely to hurt anyone (other than making those that buy 'EMP shields' a little poorer) as its all in the wrong direction and it what actually happens will come as a relatively pleasant surprise. Unless of course, they where expecting to be the only ones with working cars and generators.
The bad part is, the people who don't understand EMP's, probably don't understand electrical systems well enough to keep them running even when they don't get fried.
The bad part is, the people who don't understand EMP's, probably don't understand electrical systems well enough to keep them running even when they don't get fried.
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Has anyone read "Lights Out" by Ted Koppel? It comes across as a good representation of the possible ramifications of an EMP, it's not a doomer fiction but a real-life analysis. At least to me it seemed plausible, but I'm not an electrician or a physicist.
I have gained a lot of experience after going through the last six EMP attacks.
Oh, wait, I guess no one in the world has ever experienced an EMP attack. And there is the very real possibility that no one ever will face such an attack.
Will the electric grid go down? Yes. The grid is down for some people in the USA every single day. And those people without power in the USA changes every single day. I am sure everyone reading this has lived through a time when they had no electric power.
Sure prep for being without electric power for short time periods but mainly prep for things that have happened in the past and will almost for sure will happen again in the future. You know things like economic recession, job loss, high inflation, etc.
Oh, wait, I guess no one in the world has ever experienced an EMP attack. And there is the very real possibility that no one ever will face such an attack.
Will the electric grid go down? Yes. The grid is down for some people in the USA every single day. And those people without power in the USA changes every single day. I am sure everyone reading this has lived through a time when they had no electric power.
Sure prep for being without electric power for short time periods but mainly prep for things that have happened in the past and will almost for sure will happen again in the future. You know things like economic recession, job loss, high inflation, etc.
The military/US have done experiments, so there is a baseline of knowledge our there, and no doubt some is still classified. During the tests in the pacific, the EMP also impacted Hawaii and there are news article from the time on how it impacted lights, telephones, etc as experienced by the residents. However, the technology during those days and what is prevalent today are vastly different. My knowledge is all dated from what I learned in the 1980s from attending a NBC officers course. And most of that was about chemical and biological weapons, how to plot nuclear fall out, and dose exposure rates. Only minimal on the effects of EMP.
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Anyone interested can read all about it:
The US test that made scientists realize how severe an EMP can be produced by a high altitude nuclear detonation was Starfish Prime. It is important to note that while Starfish Prime produced EMP effects/damage at about 900 miles (in Hawaii) and New Zealand (even further), the detonation type, yield and altitude of detonation were not optimal for the highest EMP output.
https://www.thoughtco.com/starfish-prime-nuclear-test-4151202
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime
The Soviets did similar testing but with the advantage of having seen and measured the Starfish Prime event. These tests were conducted over Kazakhstan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Project_K_nuclear_tests
What makes EMP attack by small nuclear players more likely is this:
The most basic bombs (where most developers of nuclear weapons start) are actually the best at producing EMP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
https://emptaskforce.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/REPORTempthreatNK21A.pdf
Except I think you need to place them in the correct spot for the most effect. That requires an advanced missile to travel some distance and deliver your EMP at an altitude of 250 miles or so.
I've been hearing that North Korea has a nuclear device in a satellite that they could set off over central USA that could shut down pretty much all grid power. Never underestimate the help given to anti American nations by China.
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Correct.
But most medium range missiles and ICBMs get to that altitude (apogee) and indeed much higher as part of their typical trajectory.
Among the NK missile arsenal, both the Pukkuksong and Hwasong family of missiles go higher than 250 miles.
Actually, the high altitude requirement is a two edged sword.
One of the more challenging technical hurdles in ICBM warhead development is hardening the casings to make them survive re-entry through the atmosphere to the conventional low altitude detonation point. EMP weapons don't need re-entry capable casings.
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NK is the perfect deniable proxy for China. NK relies so heavily upon China that they dare not do anything China doesn't approve of.
But when NK does stuff, China can just say "yeah...crazy NK.....we don't have any control over them..."
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NK doesn't have a satellite with that capability. Old story. Sorry can't find the link, but I've looked it up before. Their satellites are too small to carry a payload and most of their few satellites are non functional.
They only ever launched two, and the neither of them worked.
Officially.
Unofficially, they could have godzilla frozen at the north pole ready to come down and kill us all.....but that's just what I hear. No sources.
If you want to play around with this you can drop various nuclear devices on your locations at any height and get the expected damage and, if it is a ground detonation, the expected fallout.
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
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Officially, satellites are tracked, so doubt it.
The detonation was about 1,000 miles away from Hawaii and it’s still caused havoc, albeit with early 60 electronics.
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There was damage to a microwave link.......but there was also damage to simple stuff like streetlights.
Here is a technical paper that talks about the technical explanation for why those 300 street lights got blown:
http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/SDAN/0031.pdf
This is example 5,473.....of why a prepper/survivalist, must be constantly reading/researching and not just watching youtube.
And why if you do technical preps, you must have a technical education.
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will an emp make the air or soil “dirty”?
No.
A ground burst will create fallout but an airburst won't. Both will create an EMP but the radius of a ground burst is much smaller. A burst at about 250 miles up, over the centre of America will affect most of the 48 contiguous States, parts of lower Canada, and a bit of Mexico.
A ground burst is any nuclear explosion that is low enough to pull ground material into the fire ball. An air burst is any detonation high enough that no ground material is pulled into the fire ball. Any detonation that occurs at or above 30 miles above ground level is a high altitude detonation.
All nuclear detonations cause EMP's however ground burst and low altitude bursts generate a soft EMP of opposite polarity to that of a high altitude detonation. The HEMP is the only nuclear burst that produces the E1 pulse. The E2 and E3 pulses are not severe enough to cause destructive pulses more than a 1 to 3 mile diameter from the center of the blast.
The HEMP E1 pulse is more effective if the bomb is less efficient - more leakage of neutrons - regardless of the bombs yield, The E3 pulse is more effective the more efficient the bomb is because the neutrons are used to produce more yield and the higher the yield the more deflection there is in the magnetic field. You have a trade off to make if you want to cripple a country's electrical grid or just disarm the electronics capability of the country. An atomic bomb the size of the Nagasaki bomb would generate a very strong E1 pulse if detonated at 240 miles but a poor E3 pulse because of its limited yield. A 1 to 5 megaton hydrogen bomb would have a similar E1 pulse when detonated at the same altitude but the E3 pulse would be much stronger and cover much more area because its greater yield would push the earth's magnetic field over a wider area. More displacement means a stronger E3 pulse.
All nuclear detonations cause EMP's however ground burst and low altitude bursts generate a soft EMP of opposite polarity to that of a high altitude detonation. The HEMP is the only nuclear burst that produces the E1 pulse. The E2 and E3 pulses are not severe enough to cause destructive pulses more than a 1 to 3 mile diameter from the center of the blast.
The HEMP E1 pulse is more effective if the bomb is less efficient - more leakage of neutrons - regardless of the bombs yield, The E3 pulse is more effective the more efficient the bomb is because the neutrons are used to produce more yield and the higher the yield the more deflection there is in the magnetic field. You have a trade off to make if you want to cripple a country's electrical grid or just disarm the electronics capability of the country. An atomic bomb the size of the Nagasaki bomb would generate a very strong E1 pulse if detonated at 240 miles but a poor E3 pulse because of its limited yield. A 1 to 5 megaton hydrogen bomb would have a similar E1 pulse when detonated at the same altitude but the E3 pulse would be much stronger and cover much more area because its greater yield would push the earth's magnetic field over a wider area. More displacement means a stronger E3 pulse.
SD, any idea how big a bomb we are likely to get hit with?
what about deflection in rough terrain? is there reasearch out there on this. in past i used telemetry devices and i tell ya waves do very strange 'bounce' in ridges and mtn terrain. i am not convinced rough portions will have be effected much from emp.plus guys doing emp testing on solar panels you can get now. they tried blowing them but couldnt. but its internet...soooooo
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tried reading it..might as well been german or some other foreign language to my pea brain...all i know is some street lights blew out in 1962...i think...lol
The gist of it was that some street lights blew out because of the specific voltage, setup and orientation of the wires (relative to the detonation) while most others did not, even in the same area.
