Ham newb questions for a Ham wannabe

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Alaskajohn

Bugged out
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Oct 2, 2020
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Location
Alaska
I intended to start my Ham journey back about 2015 when I moved to my isolated mountain but quickly learned that there was no repeater anywhere in my region. I am about at 2,800 feet in a winding valley hundreds of miles long with 8,000 to 10,000 foot mountains around me. I just learned that a repeater is now in my region and in talking to the owner of the repeater, he is confident that with my budget, i should be able to reach his repeated. I also recently expanded my cellar giving me a dry and heated space that will be at 52-54 degrees year round. I have a space about the size of a card table where I can place any ham equipment. If I decide to move forward with the plan, I will need to study and pass the appropriate exam.

Budget: $1,500. In order to get this done I need to stick to my budget. That said, if a system was scalable I could spend new money each year to add to my system, but I am not looking to build a monster system.

Question: What system to get? VoIP systems, IRLP, Allstar and Echolink, as I understand it, are the options. Some folks I’ve been chatting with who want to help me get set up are suggesting VoIP is the way to go given my budget. Although I am familiar with VoIP as a replacement for traditional phone systems, I really don’t know a whole lot. What are the differences between VoIP systems, IRLP, Allstar and Echolink that are relevant given my budget and situation?

What suggestions or feedback from our resident experts have for this ham newb? I also want to be smart enough to ask the right questions to the folks trying to help me out up here. Yes, and I am starting from scratch with no equipment. It should be a pretty easy run from the cellar up the side of the cabin where my 2nd floor has a cathedral roof. I am thinking I can run an antenna up about 20 feet higher than the high point of the roof without blowing OPSEC.

Thoughts?

Note: I did post this on another board, so if you happen to be on both boards, I would rather you respond here as I am moving more to this board for a lot of good reasons. 👍
 
Let me address the systems you mentioned above and then make some recommendations.

VOIP is voice over internet protocol. It's using the internet for your telephone. The handset digitizes your voice, sends it over your high-speed connection to a remote destination (whoever you're calling) where you can be heard. This really has nothing to do with amateur radio.

IRLP is somewhat dated, but still in use. It stands for Internet Radio Linking Project. You use your radio to talk to a nearby repeater which digitizes your voice and sends it over to a remote repeater of your choice using the internet, where it's then broadcast and heard by others on their radios. So the internet is in between you and the folks you're communicating with.

More modern incarnations of IRLP are D-Star, DMR and System Fusion. You use your radio to talk to a local repeater or a "hot spot" you keep in your house that is connected to the internet.

Echolink is similar, except you can use your phone, tablet or computer to connect with software to a remote repeater anywhere in the world. Again, the internet is required.

I'm unfamiliar with Allstar. Maybe you meant D-Star?

All of these things have their place and I've used and enjoyed some of them, but if you're using the internet as a means to carry your signal, you're reliant on additional technology outside your control.

The basic components you must have are:
Transceiver
Power supply
Antenna(s)
Coax feed cable

Optionally, you may want an antenna tuner, a power/SWR meter, and/or an amplifier

With a $1500 budget, you can do very well. You can get something like a Yaesu FT-991 "shack-in-a-box". It operates on HF, VHF and UHF. Output power is 100W on HF and 50W on VHF/UHF which is quite good. This will cover you if/when you get your General license (and I encourage you to study for General since it involves only a bit more information than Technician). The benefits are it should serve you well no matter how you want to operate. The negative is if it breaks, you have no radio. The FT-991 with a power supply would cost approximately $1300.

There are other brands out there that also offer HF/VHF/UHF in one box.

A big advantage to getting your General is being able to use HF bands for SSB (voice). I've reached all over North America on only 20W and made contacts all over the world using digital modes like JS8. Having local repeaters is great for VHF/UHF, but being able to reach others point-to-point even if they're over the horizon is very satisfying!

Alternatively, you can get multiple radios. A decent VHF/UHF transceiver that puts out up to 50W-75W is smart. There are plenty of mobile rigs that will work fine as a base station. Expect to pay between $200 and $500 for a good mobile rig. You can also get a relatively inexpensive HF rig for well under $800 (new and used). And you can use a common power supply to power them both.

Regarding antennas, there's one simple rule to bear in mind: The higher you can raise it up, the better.

You can get a good VHF/UHF antenna for under $100. Tram and Comet are a couple well-respected brands. VHF/UHF antennas are usually deployed vertically.

HF antennas are a little less straightforward. You can get HF antennas that are somewhat resonant on several bands, but you will almost certainly need to have an antenna tuner to match it in order to keep your SWR low. Or, you can get an HF antenna that is manufactured to be resonant on one band only, but then you're limited to just that band. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I operate almost exclusively on 40m and I've reached all over the world. HF antennas are usually deployed horizontally and can be quite long. Having a 100+ foot long antenna is pretty common. (If you don't have the space to accommodate that, there are certainly alternative antenna designs, so don't worry about it.)

Many hams use multiple single-band antennas and many hams use a single HF antenna that works on multiple bands. The choice is yours.

Finally, I used and recommend HamStudy.org: Cutting edge amateur radio study tools. It's free, has all the questions that could appear on exams, it offers practice exams, and keeps track of your progress.
 
@bkt, Wonderful response and it helps me understand why the folks in Alaska have been suggestion internet based means of getting to this new repeater. The person I spoke to that owns several repeaters in Alaska (not the new one near me) says he uses a VoIP to digitalize his communication that are then sent to a repeater. Regardless, I agree that I do not want a internet dependent system as a main motivation for ham is to get information from the outside world if the internet goes down. Apparently they are still concerned that I won't be able to hit the new, nearby repeater.

On the repeater, without giving away too many details, that long a very steep valley winds around. The repeater is about 20 miles away but there is a 6,000 foot mountain between us as the valley makes a gentle U turn. I am at 2,800 feet on the steep slopes of a 7,000 foot mountain that rises at a very rapid rate. The valley I live on is narrow where I am at and the bottom of a 10,000 foot mountain that rises sharply is directly south. I was told that without a repeater my only chance was to have the highest ham rating and equipment far exceeding my budget. Also, the terms I gave in my OP were given to me by some repeater owners who want to help. So I can't confirm or clarify what they meant by Allstar.

Your comments certainly adds important data points to consider and helps explain some of the guidance others have given me. I still having
 
When you say "repeater". is a VHF or UHF or HF repeater? If it's a VHF (2 meter/ 146 MHZ) repeater, you MAY be able to hit it, it's hard to predict without trying it. Terrain is an issue with VHF, it's worse with UHF 440 mhz. I use a Kenwood TM-281 for 2 meters, fairly inexpensive and up to 65 watts out.

I also have an FT-991A for HF and VHF/UHF communications. A nice feature of the FT-991A is it has a built in tuner for HF.

Doesn't take much room for a shack, most of mine sits on a bookcase shelf:
IMG_0762.JPG
 
Ditto what @bkt said. If you have trouble with the repeater you could also try a YAGI antenna. They come in VHF or UHF or a combination of both in one antenna. As @dademoss said you might be surprised what you can do if it’s VHF.

All you need to start HF is your General license, that will give you access to all the HF bands. If you have tall trees around see about using a G5RV dipole HF antenna. They are relatively inexpensive.
 
Echolink is similar, except you can use your phone, tablet or computer to connect with software to a remote repeater anywhere in the world. Again, the internet is required.

I just put that on my phone, looks pretty cool.
 
When you say "repeater". is a VHF or UHF or HF repeater? If it's a VHF (2 meter/ 146 MHZ) repeater, you MAY be able to hit it, it's hard to predict without trying it. Terrain is an issue with VHF, it's worse with UHF 440 mhz. I use a Kenwood TM-281 for 2 meters, fairly inexpensive and up to 65 watts out.

I also have an FT-991A for HF and VHF/UHF communications. A nice feature of the FT-991A is it has a built in tuner for HF.

Doesn't take much room for a shack, most of mine sits on a bookcase shelf:
View attachment 56998

This is the information I see on the listing for the repeater:

FM IRLP
Mixed-Mode:Yes; analog capable.

So I am not exactly sure what this is in regards to your information.
 
@bkt, Wonderful response and it helps me understand why the folks in Alaska have been suggestion internet based means of getting to this new repeater. The person I spoke to that owns several repeaters in Alaska (not the new one near me) says he uses a VoIP to digitalize his communication that are then sent to a repeater. Regardless, I agree that I do not want a internet dependent system as a main motivation for ham is to get information from the outside world if the internet goes down. Apparently they are still concerned that I won't be able to hit the new, nearby repeater.

On the repeater, without giving away too many details, that long a very steep valley winds around. The repeater is about 20 miles away but there is a 6,000 foot mountain between us as the valley makes a gentle U turn. I am at 2,800 feet on the steep slopes of a 7,000 foot mountain that rises at a very rapid rate. The valley I live on is narrow where I am at and the bottom of a 10,000 foot mountain that rises sharply is directly south. I was told that without a repeater my only chance was to have the highest ham rating and equipment far exceeding my budget. Also, the terms I gave in my OP were given to me by some repeater owners who want to help. So I can't confirm or clarify what they meant by Allstar.

Your comments certainly adds important data points to consider and helps explain some of the guidance others have given me. I still having
20 miles is very easily reached by either VHF or UHF in a line-of-sight situation on only 5 watts. But if you happen to have a fargin' huge rock in the neighborhood of 6000 feet that sits between you and your repeater's antenna, you are probably not going to make many contacts.

But all is not lost. If you have a General license (not that I'm very strongly encouraging you to get one, or anything), you have access to bands that don't give a frog's shiny green arse about Very Big Rocks. You're done with line-of-sight and you're now bouncing your signal off the troposphere. Depending on how your antenna is oriented (sloped or flat), you may reach out several thousand miles (sloped) or only a couple hundred miles (flat).

Case in point: I have a friend who lives about 80 miles away who, unfortunately, lives in a basin. He can't get a 2m/70cm antenna high enough so that we can chat or even that he can reliably hit a common repeater. But I can hit him with HF signals easily and reliably because my signal is in the downward direction. HF can (maybe can, not always can!) help fix problems with bowls, basins and valleys.

Food for thought.
 
Does it list a frequency? Like 146.980 MHz or 444.500 MHz?

For OPSEC I won’t list the actual frequency, but it falls somewhere in this range that lists the frequency of repeaters in Alaska: 145.0000 Mhz to 147.5700 MHz. While they may exist in Alaska, I am not seeing any repeaters above 147.5700.
 
For OPSEC I won’t list the actual frequency, but it falls somewhere in this range that lists the frequency of repeaters in Alaska: 145.0000 Mhz to 147.5700 MHz. While they may exist in Alaska, I am not seeing any repeaters above 147.5700.
Alright, that’s known as the 2 Meter band / VHF. You might have some luck getting into that repeater with some mobile radio power and a better (higher gain) antenna if low power doesn’t work.

Something like this, doesn’t need to be this brand but they normally come in 3 element or 5 element models with better performance with an increase in the number of elements.
1758E2C2-1169-4E0E-8637-F97ADF290FA2.jpeg
 
Alright, that’s known as the 2 Meter band / VHF. You might have some luck getting into that repeater with some mobile radio power and a better (higher gain) antenna if low power doesn’t work.

Something like this, doesn’t need to be this brand but they normally come in 3 element or 5 element models with better performance with an increase in the number of elements.
View attachment 57060


Super helpful! I now think I have a solid baseline of information to have a good and somewhat intelligent chat with the folks in Alaska who want to help.

I appreciate everyones input!
 
The first thing I would ask is, "What are you wanting to do with this radio setup?" You've mentioned "OPSEC", not wanting to give away too many details, and said you didn't want to tell us the frequency of the repeater. That makes zero sense for ham operations.

Assuming you can hit this repeater, you do know that you will only be able to talk to other people on that same repeater, unless it is connected to the internet? (or linked to other repeaters in the area using microwave or other connection technology) You also said that you do not want an internet dependent system. So we're back to you only being able to talk to people who are monitoring this repeater (and its linked repeaters, if there are any). Your description of the terrain around you makes me think you might kind of be in the middle of nowhere. So, is there a group of people that use this same repeater/linked_repeaters that you are wanting to talk to? That is your target audience (with no internet reliance) when using the 2 meter band you are talking about. And forget about OPSEC - ham radio is open, anyone can listen, you cannot hide your transmissions, encrypt them, or try to hide their content in any way.

And ham radio is not like a cellphone. You can't reliably contact someone any time you want. If you both can connect to the same repeater, you can prearrange a time to meet. But if your plan is to contact a specific person in, say, Montana, and have a private conversation with them - ham radio does not give you that. You may well be able to contact this other person, but you can't consider it reliable. When you are refracting radio waves up in the ionosphere, bouncing them back down to Earth and reflecting them off the ground back up to the ionosphere again - that is hardly a reliable thing. It's not like dialing them on the phone.

I apologize if you already know all this, I'm not trying to talk down to you or anything. But some of the things you said in your posts sometimes sound like you may have plans that ham radio will never be able to support.
 

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