Inexpensive and quick tornado shelter and root cellar
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years ago i saw someone who built a sort of shelter-root cellar i thought was neat.. it was designed like earth bag shelter but he used bags of cement.
he dug down a bit a few feet and put a layer of cement bags down. i think he put some rebar here and there for stability. then he poked holes in the cement bags-soaked them very well with water and let them dry. then added another layer and repeated. after it dried good and cured he covered with some dirt-sod. i th nk his shape was more oval than round.
he dug down a bit a few feet and put a layer of cement bags down. i think he put some rebar here and there for stability. then he poked holes in the cement bags-soaked them very well with water and let them dry. then added another layer and repeated. after it dried good and cured he covered with some dirt-sod. i th nk his shape was more oval than round.
I don’t have any experience with these but fiberglass shelters would be more cost-effective and less time to install. A small backhoe would be used to dig the hole and place the unit in a few hours. There are loops on the bottom that they slide poles through to help anchor the unit in the ground and keep it from becoming buoyant with really wet ground.
https://www.integritystormshelters.com/storm-shelters/fiberglass-storm-shelter-models
https://www.integritystormshelters.com/storm-shelters/fiberglass-storm-shelter-models
I suggest you first see if "Root Cellars" work where you reside. Yes.....a brain dead person can build one that works perfectly........if they are in a proper location. I know that in other locations that you would think they would work fine, the Government, has spent 30-50 years building many different experimental "root cellars", all ending in failure.
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My grandparents had a root cellar. It was built almost like a basement. The dirt that was removed from the ground was then put on top of the space. I believe that there were rafters at the top to hold the dirt up.
Honestly, I don't think there is an easy way to do this.
Some thing to consider is the water table in your area. Do people have basements? Do basements get water in them?
You mention metal boxes that people bury. I think you mean shipping containers. They do not have strength to hold up a dirt top. They will collapse. I could be wrong, but I think building a frame for concrete reinforced with rebar and metal wire reinforcement would be better. Cement blocks would be a way to do it yourself.
Honestly, I don't think there is an easy way to do this.
Some thing to consider is the water table in your area. Do people have basements? Do basements get water in them?
You mention metal boxes that people bury. I think you mean shipping containers. They do not have strength to hold up a dirt top. They will collapse. I could be wrong, but I think building a frame for concrete reinforced with rebar and metal wire reinforcement would be better. Cement blocks would be a way to do it yourself.
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very first thing to do is read this book...root cellaring by mike and nancy bubel
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Ben used metal garbage cans. I know I've seen a photo.
Neb, any comments?
Neb, any comments?
Earth bags would work, I have seen pictures and designs of root cellars using them. Someone in Nova Scotia made one out of old tires packed with dirt, but my understanding is that was a heap more effort and time than they were expecting it to be.
A few things to think on;
Look into your ground water levels and drainage etc. If unsuitable for digging down there are many above ground root cellar plans out there as well.
As a woman who also does all my own construction, and started with not enough knowledge and experience, keep in mind it is going to take longer than you want. Progress will be slower than you wish. Not matter which method of building you choose. But just stay stubborn and stick to the project, you'll get there. And you'll get faster as things progress.
A few things to think on;
Look into your ground water levels and drainage etc. If unsuitable for digging down there are many above ground root cellar plans out there as well.
As a woman who also does all my own construction, and started with not enough knowledge and experience, keep in mind it is going to take longer than you want. Progress will be slower than you wish. Not matter which method of building you choose. But just stay stubborn and stick to the project, you'll get there. And you'll get faster as things progress.
You go girls
You can build an underground structure with green treated wood. I built a well pit that way 16 years ago and as far as I know it's still just fine. Understand that you will need a good base of crushed rock under it for drainage, and a lot of crushed rock going up the sides of the hole,, outside of the wood box, or you'll get mud coming in under the edges when it rains.. and you'll need to figure out your method of entry. But you can build it fairly cheap.
I just checked a couple of universities in my state, they have free info on gardens, veggies and storage. Sites like the USDA has free garden and veggie info, actually any plant growing in the US. I use them often when researching wild medicinal plants. Several state and federal websites have emergency info, storm shelter plans etc.
Have you checked your local county extension office? Stop by and meet with them. They have a lot of info and they know what works in your area. They would also have a good idea of who uses or builds root cellars in your general area.
I agree with @Sourdough about building to your location. I've seen cellars in upstate NY and Wisconsin, WV, TN, GA and Bama. What would work well for me would be a bad choice for the mtns of TN or vice versa.
Have you checked your local county extension office? Stop by and meet with them. They have a lot of info and they know what works in your area. They would also have a good idea of who uses or builds root cellars in your general area.
I agree with @Sourdough about building to your location. I've seen cellars in upstate NY and Wisconsin, WV, TN, GA and Bama. What would work well for me would be a bad choice for the mtns of TN or vice versa.
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1 shipping container, around 2000$ or less.
Tar treatment of container around 100$
1 hole big enough to hold the container, whatever you can get it done for, make sure it drains well.
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They have more than one great book, but I agree that is the best & everyone should read it that store winter vegetables, even without a root cellar. A old refrigerator or plastic 55gallon drum can keep root or winter squash from freezing. the temperature chart is golden by it self.
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I have a Conex & if you bury it it will cave in from the sides.
I have done the research on it & the only way it might work is if you pour a six inch slab & sit the Conex on it, with six to eight inch on each side of box/Conex for a footing for the wall.
Then add rebar & pour the wall of concrete ONE FOOT at a time, let it harden for 48 hours before pouring the next foot of the three sided wall. This will take nine days or more the pour the wall & cost more than it is worth. The problem is the container roof & walls are there to protect the cargo from weather, nothing else. Only the ends & corners & floors are what holds up the four full containers on top of your container on the shipping dock. By the way I worked loading & unloading Conex container for 36 months.
I have done the research on it & the only way it might work is if you pour a six inch slab & sit the Conex on it, with six to eight inch on each side of box/Conex for a footing for the wall.
Then add rebar & pour the wall of concrete ONE FOOT at a time, let it harden for 48 hours before pouring the next foot of the three sided wall. This will take nine days or more the pour the wall & cost more than it is worth. The problem is the container roof & walls are there to protect the cargo from weather, nothing else. Only the ends & corners & floors are what holds up the four full containers on top of your container on the shipping dock. By the way I worked loading & unloading Conex container for 36 months.
I was just thinking about this yesterday myself.
Remembered how I had seen an older bridge built over the creek using bags of cement and it was holding up perfectly.
Cement bags are going to be a lot stronger than earthbags.
But a lot more expensive build too...
The parcel should have clayey soils especially deeper down so I can get good amount of own clay, probably, to make earthbags more solid.
The route of cement bags versus concrete blocks - what's the advantage of the first method?
I thought cement bags would be a lot more expensive, as concrete blocks come with hollows/less material and one can selectively fill them sealing the rebar in. It's also easy to vertically rebar concrete blocks.
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I'm living organic lifestyle and already have enviornmental illness from past chemical exposure.
Shipping containers are heavily polluted with pesticides and don't event want to get started on tar stuff.
Anyway, shipping container will collapse/cave under the pressure from the earth in most cases.
Yes, I know how to store stuff in buried containers.
Right now don't have time to read a book, but need to get a tornado shelter soon, that will double as cellar.
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I mainly need a tornado shelter, cellar being secondary purpose so I definitely want it under the ground.
Water table should be low enough, soil report says > 2m in that section of the parcel, can be a lot deeper
I'm just concerned with structural stability of earthbag structure, as they're normally not meant for underground use/not tested.
I thought about it and think would rather use concrete blocks that can be vertically rebarred for my peace of mind, but yes construction time will be long in both earthbag and block/brick case.
And I need protection from tornados soon.
I thought of using a septic tank but heard concrete septic tanks are expensive and I might be just buying a ready-made something marketed as "storm shelter" for that price.
Cheaper poly/plastic septic tanks have own issues, seems like - like being pushed upwards or collapsing if large tank >1500 gal is allowed to sit empty. I'm also not sure if I can deal with breathing inside plastic tank, if there're fumes and smell. I already got health issue and have low tolerance for fumes from synthetics. You go to tornado shelter when there's tornado warning so might need to be there for a while.
I'd just buy underground storm shelter but cheaper ones are too small to double as a cellar.
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No I did not mean shipping containers at all.
I meant steel tornado shelters. But they're are too small to double as cellar (and remind of a coffin!)
Water table should not be high there according to soil report, says at least over 2 meters deep in that parcel section.
Clayey soil - but soil report says that expansive clays are not an issue there.
Yes, I considered fiberglass option. Some say they're fragile and not durable, but they're cheaper than metal or pre-cast concrete shelter and shouldn't block signals as much. I see, didn't know about those anchors - I heard of building a concrete slab under to prevent buoyancy, which seems like huge overkill to me.
One benefit of fiberglass shelter is that it should block any potential water.
But I think need more space for use as root cellar than affordable storm shelters offer.
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I guess just starting with bare earth walls might be one option, that's how it was done in the old times, may be use treated wood bracing, put the roof on and build the walls gradually from the inside... not sure if it's doable properly?
To sum the rest up
1) ready made tornado shelters
- cons: too small to be a root cellar, unless spending $$$$
- pros: installed very fast
Materials:
metal: expensive, blocks signals
concrete: expensive
fiberglass: buoyancy, less strength/durability
poly/plastic: buoyancy, less strong, potential chemical fumes inside
2) septic tanks
- cons: round shape wastes space needed for root cellar usage. Are not large enough and large ones get expensive.
- pros: cheaper than ready tornado shelter, still installed pretty fast. Can block water intrusion.
Materials are mostly the same as for tornado shelters
3) earthbags
- cons: not tested and officially not recommended for underground use, strength questionable. Difficulty with vertically rebarring them. Long build time.
- pros: very cheap, can use dirt and clay dug out of the hole. Can be in equilibrium with soil around
4) cement bags
- cons: long build time. Probably more expensive than concrete blocks (?)
- pros: stronger than earthbags
5) concrete blocks
- cons: long build time. More expensive than earthbags.
- pros: traditional use for basements, easy to reinforce, moderate price of material
6) shipping containers (not an option for me)
- cons: will cave on their own often, contamination with pesticides
- pros: moderate pricing per sq foot, quick install
7) culverts, metal and concrete
- cons: very expensive I think, while require additional work. And cheap used culverts can be contaminated. Site needs to be accessible for crane. Delivery may attract attention and questioning.
- pros: great strength, faster install than building walls
8) treated wood
- cons: will rot eventually (though can be extra treated to protect and plastic used behind it). One thing I'm not sure about chemical safety of being inside poorly ventilated treated wood room for a while
- pros: cheaper and faster to install than some other options
9) I heard of this idea: burying quonset hut metal shed and covering it with sandbags and waterproof membrane
- cons: I think will be extremely expensive based on some pricing I seen on small quonset huts
10) burying old bus:
- cons: will collapse?
- pros: quick install
To sum the rest up
1) ready made tornado shelters
- cons: too small to be a root cellar, unless spending $$$$
- pros: installed very fast
Materials:
metal: expensive, blocks signals
concrete: expensive
fiberglass: buoyancy, less strength/durability
poly/plastic: buoyancy, less strong, potential chemical fumes inside
2) septic tanks
- cons: round shape wastes space needed for root cellar usage. Are not large enough and large ones get expensive.
- pros: cheaper than ready tornado shelter, still installed pretty fast. Can block water intrusion.
Materials are mostly the same as for tornado shelters
3) earthbags
- cons: not tested and officially not recommended for underground use, strength questionable. Difficulty with vertically rebarring them. Long build time.
- pros: very cheap, can use dirt and clay dug out of the hole. Can be in equilibrium with soil around
4) cement bags
- cons: long build time. Probably more expensive than concrete blocks (?)
- pros: stronger than earthbags
5) concrete blocks
- cons: long build time. More expensive than earthbags.
- pros: traditional use for basements, easy to reinforce, moderate price of material
6) shipping containers (not an option for me)
- cons: will cave on their own often, contamination with pesticides
- pros: moderate pricing per sq foot, quick install
7) culverts, metal and concrete
- cons: very expensive I think, while require additional work. And cheap used culverts can be contaminated. Site needs to be accessible for crane. Delivery may attract attention and questioning.
- pros: great strength, faster install than building walls
8) treated wood
- cons: will rot eventually (though can be extra treated to protect and plastic used behind it). One thing I'm not sure about chemical safety of being inside poorly ventilated treated wood room for a while
- pros: cheaper and faster to install than some other options
9) I heard of this idea: burying quonset hut metal shed and covering it with sandbags and waterproof membrane
- cons: I think will be extremely expensive based on some pricing I seen on small quonset huts
10) burying old bus:
- cons: will collapse?
- pros: quick install
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Digging out your hole in the ground will be necessary, no matter what else you do. How deep you decide to go will be up to your back, your drive, your desire. Once you have the hole, you can decide from there. I do think if you start with dirt, you can change it up as time and money allow.
I think I should hire someone with equipment to do excavation. Not sure though they can dig straight walls holes or such should be hand dug.
A "Root Cellar" is not MAGIC. "Most" root cellars do NOT work. In fact few actually work. You will need to run direct burial electric power to the root cellar. It is going to need sump pump, a dehumidifier, and a humidifier, an electric heat source, a cooling source, and a fresh air exchange ventilation system. At that point you may as well add electric lighting.
Note: If the "grid" goes down, you will have a deluxe mold/mildew factory.
Note: Mice, Voles, Snakes, Weasels, Rats like Root Cellars.
We bought a home/bunker in the 60's that actually had a functioning "Root Cellar". But here is the key......it was built by a wealthy (Buffalo, NY) steel tycoon, in the 1930's for surviving WW-II, it was near Attica, NY. That root cellar was huge, had many different elevations. It was hidden off a passage from the basement. It was actually three different rooms, at different elevations.
Note: If the "grid" goes down, you will have a deluxe mold/mildew factory.
Note: Mice, Voles, Snakes, Weasels, Rats like Root Cellars.
We bought a home/bunker in the 60's that actually had a functioning "Root Cellar". But here is the key......it was built by a wealthy (Buffalo, NY) steel tycoon, in the 1930's for surviving WW-II, it was near Attica, NY. That root cellar was huge, had many different elevations. It was hidden off a passage from the basement. It was actually three different rooms, at different elevations.
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I don't think I need all the electrical and pumps setup, LOL. I will be fine without this. People did for centuries... Passive ventilation of course should be done
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The challenge with that would be the potential of water running into the hole in the ground when it rains and snows.
Yes, with raw earth option, but I meant it as very temporary for one year, I just need to have tornado protection.
I'm talking about zone 4, water table below 2m. Terrrain is rolling so can use hill to advantage. Can also do partially buried.
If it's flooding monolitic fiberglass/plastic/waterproofed concrete seem to be good options. Using raw earth version at first can also allow to observe the water behavior.
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