Inexpensive and quick tornado shelter and root cellar

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@Sourdough most cellar dont work? dude you been in alaska to long...lol..theres 1,000's of cellars working all over the globe.just because alaska has very unique features doesnt mean the broad statement you said is correct.

So.......Why would someone build "TWO" cellars......unless they performed different functions...??? In the 1940's and 50's I was raised in deep rural Pennsylvania, on dairy farms. We lived in houses built in the late 1800's. They had a basement/cellar under the house (Generally only under half of the house, not a full basement/cellar). But they also had a "root cellar" that was a totally different structure. WHY would they have two.......unless the "root cellar" served a different application.....???
 
So.......Why would someone build "TWO" cellars......unless they performed different functions...??? In the 1940's and 50's I was raised in deep rural Pennsylvania, on dairy farms. We lived in houses built in the late 1800's. They had a basement/cellar under the house (Generally only under half of the house, not a full basement/cellar). But they also had a "root cellar" that was a totally different structure. WHY would they have two.......unless the "root cellar" served a different application.....???

if you take time to read the book i posted about you would understand that all crops dont store together.i cant recall which ones as i have to go back to book for references. but basics is you need a minimum of 2 rooms because certain gases from stored goods cause other crops to ripen or rot faster. one is apples. another reason they had one in house and another away from house..often out by barn is in 1800's and into early parts of 1900 root crops were grown and stored as livestock feed. pumpkins and sugar beets and potatoes and more. i see that still being done in russia today in vids from there. i dont know if i can find it or not but theres a very old home of stone on youtube and it has a huge cellar under it...but the barn has an even larger one where the above mentioned items were stored for the livestock.

also often times people built what they could afford at the time and as funds came available as well as labor and needs grew they added on to their infrastructure.

one huge mistake folks make is canning jars in cellar where moisture is needed to keep root crops from shrinking. moisture is the last thing you want on metal lids.they will rust and eventually fail at some point if not used. also canning jars were not used or even around way back in the day they are more modern times. they used crocks. often crocks were items close by kitchen so the wife/mother could access these fast and easy. growing up my grandmother had a rot cellar outside but basement..it wasnt a dedicated cellar was crocks of items like pickles and sauerkraut. she went down stars filled a serving dish with pickles for our meal and then returned uneaten ones after meal was over. if sauerkraut was on menu she brought up a big bowl of it for the evening meal. etc. etc. etc.

this is why i say that book is so valuable as it tells exactly what can and can not be stored together. what certain items need as a humidity. my cellar is going to have a 12volt fan in vent system so i can such air in faster and easier as need be.you can get by with less but if you monitor just a bit and adjust air flow to each room you can get much longer shelf life out of goods. in poland they go so far as sucking all oxygen out of rooms where stored apples are at.the doors are marked as this can be dangerous to people. i think theres a market for plastic drum where is has locking lid and all air can be removed to keep apples for a very long time.

theres more to it..i am still learning and doing myself..the road is long as you well known.
 
if you take time to read the book i posted about you would understand that all crops dont store together.i cant recall which ones as i have to go back to book for references. but basics is you need a minimum of 2 rooms because certain gases from stored goods cause other crops to ripen or rot faster. one is apples. another reason they had one in house and another away from house..often out by barn is in 1800's and into early parts of 1900 root crops were grown and stored as livestock feed. pumpkins and sugar beets and potatoes and more. i see that still being done in russia today in vids from there. i dont know if i can find it or not but theres a very old home of stone on youtube and it has a huge cellar under it...but the barn has an even larger one where the above mentioned items were stored for the livestock.

also often times people built what they could afford at the time and as funds came available as well as labor and needs grew they added on to their infrastructure.

one huge mistake folks make is canning jars in cellar where moisture is needed to keep root crops from shrinking. moisture is the last thing you want on metal lids.they will rust and eventually fail at some point if not used. also canning jars were not used or even around way back in the day they are more modern times. they used crocks. often crocks were items close by kitchen so the wife/mother could access these fast and easy. growing up my grandmother had a rot cellar outside but basement..it wasnt a dedicated cellar was crocks of items like pickles and sauerkraut. she went down stars filled a serving dish with pickles for our meal and then returned uneaten ones after meal was over. if sauerkraut was on menu she brought up a big bowl of it for the evening meal. etc. etc. etc.

this is why i say that book is so valuable as it tells exactly what can and can not be stored together. what certain items need as a humidity. my cellar is going to have a 12volt fan in vent system so i can such air in faster and easier as need be.you can get by with less but if you monitor just a bit and adjust air flow to each room you can get much longer shelf life out of goods. in poland they go so far as sucking all oxygen out of rooms where stored apples are at.the doors are marked as this can be dangerous to people. i think theres a market for plastic drum where is has locking lid and all air can be removed to keep apples for a very long time.

theres more to it..i am still learning and doing myself..the road is long as you well known.

YES.........But my point is that throughout this thread I have maintained there is a distinction. And others have maintained that they "Basement/Cellar" is the same as "Root Cellar". Why need two that are "TOTALLY DIFFERENT" in construction and design at the same residence, if they are the same.
 
YES.........But my point is that throughout this thread I have maintained there is a distinction. And others have maintained that they "Basement/Cellar" is the same as "Root Cellar". Why need two if they are the same.

it can be....basement are usually heated .i have seen sectioned of basements that have been modified to let cool air in and out but was insulated so cold didnt creep in rest of basement or upstairs into house or let floors be cold or pipes freeze....reread my post i explain why its best to have 2 rooms...but its a moot point as person asking wanted a simple cellar to function as a cellar for what i think are a few items and to just have a place to run to if tornado comes through..i mean come on man...just having any way of getting underground while a storm passes is all they want..or it seems to what i read...they aint asking for or building a full blown bunker like top shelf survival folks have or need or.

a cellar can function for any crop be it roots or wine..its how much you as owner adjust humidity and temps that distinct in between a root cellar or a wine cellar. you dont want wine bottles where high humidity is..come on man...you just wanting to be ornery and argue today or what?

another reason for outside cellar was they put barrels of fresh pressed cider in there to store as well as wines and much more. they were not going to wrestle barrels from orchard into house and down steps off a wagon.they pulled up to cellar and off loaded goods. a cellar is nothing but a storehouse and it can vary what goes in it and how its conditions are regulated !!
 
a cellar can function for any crop be it roots or wine..its how much you as owner adjust humidity and temps that distinct in between a root cellar or a wine cellar. you dont want wine bottles where high humidity is..come on man...you just wanting to be ornery and argue today or what?

I did a lot of research on this several decades ago. What they were concluding consistently, was "YES".......there are a some places/locations in America where you can dig a "root cellar" and it will work most of the year. But many places you are going to need heat or cooling or humidity control, or it simply does not work. Think Florida or southern Arizona or Michigan, they will all need more then "Passive Ventilation" to function properly.
 
I did a lot of research on this several decades ago. What they were concluding consistently, was "YES".......there are a some places/locations in America where you can dig a "root cellar" and it will work most of the year. But many places you are going to need heat or cooling or humidity control, or it simply does not work. Think Florida or southern Arizona or Michigan, they will all need more then "Passive Ventilation" to function properly.

bulldonkey...lol...then how the heck has all these cellars worked all this time. heck i seen an old original homestead cellar in arizona thats under national park service awhile back that being rebuilt.

you know simple giant cellars kept all the potatoes grown in idaho secure as nation bought and used them from big farmers right. cellars work in most places.

if you cant dig down you just build/mound up.

since when did you start relying on govt...lol....hold on i go show you a cellar in fairbanks !!
 
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University of Alaska Fairbanks Cooperative Extension Service agent Heidi Rader gives some tips for gardening in Alaska.

filmed in 2017

A WORKING ROOT CELLAR IN FAIRBANKS !!


 
edible acres in new york turned part of basement into a cellar. it works for them.. one of these vids he talks about the stored nuts and i was shocked just how long they were stored and still doing fine..yes they were eating them.





 
this simple basement mod to a cellar has been in operation since 2016. hands on real world putting hand to the plow experience of doing the things right here.



 
Show me a Cellar or a Root Cellar in Fairbanks, Alaska with "JARS" of can food, and bags of Potatoes, and onions................BUT ZERO HEAT Assistance. Hell a cellar in Fairbanks, with heat, is no different then a cellar in Ohio with heat.
 
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Show me a Cellar or a Root Cellar in Fairbanks, Alaska with "JARS" of can food, and bags of Potatoes, and onions................BUT ZERO HEAT Assistance. Hell a cellar in Fairbanks, with heat, is no different then a cellar in Ohio with heat.
Curious...
How deep is your frost line?

It is about 18" here in SW PA.

Ben
 
Dig about 10 - 12 feet down and the temperature stays the same all year.
 
Curious...
How deep is your frost line?

It is about 18" here in SW PA.

Ben

Here where I am "IN THE WOODS" there is no frost or freezing of the ground, because there is 10" to 14" of moss that functions as insulation. Outside the forest it can vary from year to year......but 3" to 6" would be a good average. This year there may not even be 2"........because we got 24" of snow last week, and the week before we 22" of rain. So if this snow holds as a base, it will insulate the ground from freezing very deep. I spent much of my life in between Rochester and Buffalo, NY before I moved here 52 years ago. And the winters here on the upper Kenai Peninsula are much warmer then western New York.

However many places including around Fairbanks, there is "Permafrost" year around.
 
A lot of Alaska has permafrost all year but it doesn't go 10 feet down.
 
Wow , this subject is more controversial than Faucci flu ,
I would look at mike oehlers underground construction book, and the rest of you kids fight nice or there may unhappiness
 
What a crazy discussion over root cellars!!! I'm sure there are different ways around the country. But around here and areas I've been too are mostly similar, used for food storage and other stuff as well. Call em whatever you will. Like a lot of other stuff, stuff is called different things in different parts of the country.

Mike and Nancy Bubel's book is one I wish I had before we built our house. Our's would have turned out better.
 
So.......Why would someone build "TWO" cellars......unless they performed different functions...??? In the 1940's and 50's I was raised in deep rural Pennsylvania, on dairy farms. We lived in houses built in the late 1800's. They had a basement/cellar under the house (Generally only under half of the house, not a full basement/cellar). But they also had a "root cellar" that was a totally different structure. WHY would they have two.......unless the "root cellar" served a different application.....???
same reason you build a shed on your property and have a garage. . garage was not enough room
 
farm built in 1840 that has 2 cellars..one under house and the one in barn. if you watch both videos you see the home actually has a 'basement' and then you go down steps into its 'cellar'. if you read old agriculture books you can see why cellar was in barn based on livestock feed produced back in day like turnips,sugar beets and mangels. the bagged and pellitized feeds didnt show up till GE pushed for electric power to farms giving first automation feed and storage system the push in 1940's. they made films showing how just one of their electric motors could do so much work for you on your farm.

all before electric was ever a thing.




 


the above is how poor people in other parts of globe have learned a bit to store items for cheap by adding ventilation pipe . below is our potato crop going into what potato industry calls a potato barn. notice as it fills ventilation pipes are laid on floor to insure proper ventilation. both systems running basic principles. but the one below is how you feed a nation on a grand scale where all its population dont live an agrairian type/based lifestyle. the contrast in the two is drastic but basic are same.

 
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this is what it takes to feed a nation. notice farmer calls his giant storage a cellar.

 
warning thread drift..but its abut food storage.


Fresh-picked vegetables and fruits last longer if they can be kept cool. African farmers use 'charcoal coolers' to store their crops before packing. Could you make a fridge with pieces of wood, some netting, a length of pipe and some charcoal? Find out who does and how the technology works. Find out more about farming on the LEAF Virtual Farm Walk website, www.virtualfarmwalk.org

 
What's the difference between a swamp cooler and air conditioner?
One of the main differences between swamp coolers and air conditioners is in humidity. Swamp coolers blow air through a wet material. This adds a ton of moisture to the air. On the other hand, air conditioners dry air before releasing it back out.

Good show.
 
Show me a Cellar or a Root Cellar in Fairbanks, Alaska with "JARS" of can food, and bags of Potatoes, and onions................BUT ZERO HEAT Assistance. Hell a cellar in Fairbanks, with heat, is no different then a cellar in Ohio with heat.

This couple built one and I don't think they are to far from Fairbanks. They ended up having to abandon it but that was because of the water table/flooding. Not because their jars froze, and they did keep home canned food down there.
 
i put black perforated drain pipe with sediment sock on it and gravel above and below it of my cellar build.just like home builders do around home foundations.depending on water table where people live they may or may not need to but its best to do so and be sure to run it out past build where it can drain out and away from build. i probably didnt need to on my mtn side going into slope but if a person does something they need to do it best they can...sooooo....i also tied in drain in cellar so if i want to use a waterhose to wash inside of it out it drains into that piping.

my uncle has a huge root cellar built into hillside off from driveway.it was built in 1970 when he built new home and its cinder block and has a dirt floor.its never been wet inside on that dirt floor ever that i seen. its a tall cellar too and you can hang a beef if need be in it.
 
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Built in 1943 to hold produce grown at the camp, the Heart Mountain root cellar is the only surviving structure built entirely by Japanese American incarcerees. The cellar is closed to the public until restoration is completed, but our executive director, Dakota Russell, will take you inside this historic structure in the latest installment of our virtual site tours.

 

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