Iowa, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, or New Hampshire?

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lifetime_urbanite

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I'm trying to decide the best state to live in for the next 40 years. My wife and I want a small homestead in order to be more self-reliant if need be. The one caveat is that we have to live near a population base of around 100,000 people for employment, but we will also be bringing in six figures of income.

My biggest concerns are long-term safety / low crime, ability to grow food and raise some animals, access to water, etc. Since we will have to live within 30-35 minutes of a population base, I do understand that some concessions will have to be made.

Also, I'd really appreciate your input because I don't want to be working on the homestead non-stop. Ideally, I'd like to be working on it no more than 10-20 hours per week (and I'd ideally like it to produce 50% of our food: raising chickens for eggs and slaughter, a few goats and sheep, and a year-round greenhouse for fruits and vegetables for two people). Please let me know if this low time-commitment is totally unrealistic.

I was hoping to get some ideas from people on here to give me some direction to look in. We will be making the move and setting up shop -- somewhere -- in three years.
 
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I'm a native Iowan and I live in the type of area you're describing. In Iowa you'd be looking at the outskirts of these places:

Ames
Des Moines Metro area
Cedar Rapids
Dubuque
Quad Cities
Council Bluffs/Omaha
Waterloo/Cedar Falls
Sioux City

Understand this though - there isn't much "homesteading" here. You're going to be in pretty well developed areas, surrounded by farmland, and within the distance from urban centers that you want, acreages will be pretty expensive. If you're willing to get 50 miles out from a place like Des Moines it gets a lot cheaper.

Iowa has a lot going for it, we're business friendly and we're friendly to the country lifestyle. Wages here might be lower for your profession than where you come from but the cost of living is likely to be a lot lower too. Violent crime is really low here. There's a lot of great things going on. But quite frankly the weather can be a drag. Winters tend to be quite cold and sub 0° nights are fairly common. Spring and fall are nice but they're windy. And summer is brutally hot and humid most years. And we do have lots of skeeters, flies, and gnats.

We're obviously very agriculture friendly. You can grow just about anything you want in our soil and it will do well. Raising critters on acreages is pretty common here. You'll find lots of people with chickens, lots of people with a couple calves or a few goats. And horses are all over the place here.

We're a mixed bag politically too, if that matters. Sometimes blue, sometimes red, but things tend to stay fairly conservative here even when we're blue. Our last "D" governor actually had a higher NRA rating that the "R" governor that replaced him.

All in all, this is a good place. You should check it out, but I'm not 100% sure you'll find the kind of situation you're looking for here...
 
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I have no experience living in any of those states, but if you are looking for population centers of 100,000 that should narrow the list considerably. I would suggest the Numbeo Cost of living website. You can compare your potential relocation site with where you are now, or compare them with each other. For arguments sake we will take for granted the information is accurate. I have found that to be true with locations I know.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/
 
Thank you to both of you guys so much. We currently live in NYC and are paying $3,000 a month for rent in a place where we won't be targets of crime. Low quality grass-fed, grass-finished ground beef is $11 a pound; I just paid $140 for about 8 pounds of organic dried cherries and blueberries. We currently make $130,000 a year but have zero leftover -- the cash we earn might as well be tokens at this point, so we are definitely OK with a theoretical paycut, but, ironically, we will actually make more money in non-urban environments, because big cities are oversaturated when it comes to what my wife does.

We are in our 30s and have $350,000 of student loan debt. We've done everything we were "supposed" to do as young people who grew up in cities, and we have zero to show for anything. With the US fracturing and inflation/food prices beginning to heat up, we unfortunately have to get out of here. Which hurts, because we both grew up in cities, and it's where we feel most at home -- surrounded by millions of uninterested strangers in packed subways cars lol. Concrete jungle. Strange but true.

That said, the current situation is untenable. And we really don't like development-like suburbs too much. We are extreme people -- we want either to be in NYC or on something like 10 acres, but we won't be happy in between. And we can't stay here any longer, so...

Good to hear about Iowa. I spent a day in Iowa and was impressed by the quality of the people. I felt at home there. Agricultural areas are equally fine... honestly, I feel like it would be better in some ways. The only thing I'd be a little concerned with are all the industrial pesticides in the air, but hey, I'll take what I can get.
 
Thank you to both of you guys so much. We currently live in NYC and are paying $3,000 a month for rent in a place where we won't be targets of crime. Low quality grass-fed, grass-finished ground beef is $11 a pound; I just paid $140 for about 8 pounds of organic dried cherries and blueberries. We currently make $130,000 a year but have zero leftover -- the cash we earn might as well be tokens at this point, so we are definitely OK with a theoretical paycut, but, ironically, we will actually make more money in non-urban environments, because big cities are oversaturated when it comes to what my wife does.

We are in our 30s and have $350,000 of student loan debt. We've done everything we were "supposed" to do as young people who grew up in cities, and we have zero to show for anything. With the US fracturing and inflation/food prices beginning to heat up, we unfortunately have to get out of here. Which hurts, because we both grew up in cities, and it's where we feel most at home -- surrounded by millions of uninterested strangers in packed subways cars lol. Concrete jungle. Strange but true.

That said, the current situation is untenable. And we really don't like development-like suburbs too much. We are extreme people -- we want either to be in NYC or on something like 10 acres, but we won't be happy in between. And we can't stay here any longer, so...

Good to hear about Iowa. I spent a day in Iowa and was impressed by the quality of the people. I felt at home there. Agricultural areas are equally fine... honestly, I feel like it would be better in some ways. The only thing I'd be a little concerned with are all the industrial pesticides in the air, but hey, I'll take what I can get.
Don't worry about the pesticides in the air. That's not even an issue, despite what a lot of talking heads might say. Do worry about fertilizer getting into the surface water though. Iowa surface water is never safe to drink unless it is natural spring water, and I'd even be leery of that. There is just way too much fertilizer and our lakes tend to get algae blooms because of the excess nutrients that wash into them. And our rivers have high nitrate levels. Most acreages near urban areas will be served by a rural water service or you'll have a well 100 to 700 feet deep. Either way the water will likely be perfectly safe.
 
Don't worry about the pesticides in the air. That's not even an issue, despite what a lot of talking heads might say. Do worry about fertilizer getting into the surface water though. Iowa surface water is never safe to drink unless it is natural spring water, and I'd even be leery of that. There is just way too much fertilizer and our lakes tend to get algae blooms because of the excess nutrients that wash into them. And our rivers have high nitrate levels. Most acreages near urban areas will be served by a rural water service or you'll have a well 100 to 700 feet deep. Either way the water will likely be perfectly safe.

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of information I want to be aware of. I basically plan on spending the next 3 years planning all this out, learning lots of details here and there. I know I'm still going to be in for a million surprises, but ideally I'll at least slowly learn about the big issues to be aware of.
 
With the debt load you've already got, you might consider looking at small towns outside of the urban areas. Currently our prices are rising but you can still get a 1960s or 1970s house on a big lot for less than 250k where I live. Of course you may not be able to raise animals inside city limits but the food you can grow is only limited by the space you have. Hint: learn to grow sweet corn and potatoes. Both do exceedingly well here...
 
My daughter lives in the metro area, albeit on the Jersey side, so I am quite aware of the living expense up there. Given the states you have chosen I guessing you like the Winter. Just to throw our hat in the ring, you might consider Missouri. Our winters are considerably milder. We are a Red state if you stay out of the cities. Cost of living and taxes are reasonable. There is ample land available, and not terribly expensive. We have a decent growing season, and very much like Iowa very nice people. I will call it our Midwest values.

Good luck. I hope you find what you want.
 
My daughter lives in the metro area, albeit on the Jersey side, so I am quite aware of the living expense up there. Given the states you have chosen I guessing you like the Winter. Just to throw our hat in the ring, you might consider Missouri. Our winters are considerably milder. We are a Red state if you stay out of the cities. Cost of living and taxes are reasonable. There is ample land available, and not terribly expensive. We have a decent growing season, and very much like Iowa very nice people. I will call it our Midwest values.

Good luck. I hope you find what you want.

We are actually not overly crazy about the winter -- our ideal state would be Arizona, but they are out of water...

Funny you mention Missouri because that was formerly at the top of our list along with Iowa. The only thing that caused it to fall off were the presence of those urban areas. Our worry is that they will come to dominate the state and state policies. Also, in a SHTF situation, that we might not be safe from marauders on our land. We wound up with those winter states on our list just by looking at the population and mountain/weather "opsec". Do you think that's reasonable, or possibly a little far-fetched? A lot of my concerns at this point are generated by my imagination.
 
With the debt load you've already got, you might consider looking at small towns outside of the urban areas. Currently our prices are rising but you can still get a 1960s or 1970s house on a big lot for less than 250k where I live. Of course you may not be able to raise animals inside city limits but the food you can grow is only limited by the space you have. Hint: learn to grow sweet corn and potatoes. Both do exceedingly well here...

That would be great. The only reason we need to be near population centers is because my wife has a job where every 100k people need one of her job. If there are only 25k people within 30 miles in every direction, she would only have enough work to cover a quarter time, but still need to cover full-time expenses.
 
Small world funny, but I was born and raised in your area, and moved to Arizona when I was in grammar school. I still have family that live there, and yes, water, and now border issues are a huge concern. My brother said they only had 3" of rain last year, when the normally get 12"-14".

IMHO the city on the East side of the state is probably the only one that would be a concern, and you would be quite surprised at how small it really is. Compound that with a statewide dislike for that area, and the likelihood of it dominating state politics is very remote. It is not like Illinois or California where one city can dominate state politics.

If you had property, say in the Ozark area, I really don't think any marauding hordes would find you. There are many areas that are far more rural, and not all that easy to get to. While you are correct to be concerned, the likelihood of it happening would be a little far fetched. Plenty of other areas that are far from the big cities. Springfield, Mo is very nice, and a place you might consider. Basically a big college town. Lots of land available in that area.
 
That would be great. The only reason we need to be near population centers is because my wife has a job where every 100k people need one of her job. If there are only 25k people within 30 miles in every direction, she would only have enough work to cover a quarter time, but still need to cover full-time expenses.
That could be a problem. It sounds like a research/academic or medical type job. Ames, Cedar Rapids/Iowa City, and Waterloo/Cedar Falls would all be good for that, as they are all college towns.

Something else to consider is this: The Midwest is just different than a place like New York. Putting it simply, we think nothing of driving 60 miles. That's just how it is here. If your wife has a specialized type of job, she might have to rack up a lot of miles out here. She might have to split time between different areas of the state. I'll put it this way - Brooklyn has around 2 1/2 million people, right? Iowa has about 3.2 million in the entire state. I would really look hard into the job prospects for your wife here and in all the other places you've mentioned. There just might not be much of a need...
 
Thank you to both of you guys so much. We currently live in NYC and are paying $3,000 a month for rent in a place where we won't be targets of crime. Low quality grass-fed, grass-finished ground beef is $11 a pound; I just paid $140 for about 8 pounds of organic dried cherries and blueberries. We currently make $130,000 a year but have zero leftover -- the cash we earn might as well be tokens at this point, so we are definitely OK with a theoretical paycut, but, ironically, we will actually make more money in non-urban environments, because big cities are oversaturated when it comes to what my wife does.

We are in our 30s and have $350,000 of student loan debt. We've done everything we were "supposed" to do as young people who grew up in cities, and we have zero to show for anything. With the US fracturing and inflation/food prices beginning to heat up, we unfortunately have to get out of here. Which hurts, because we both grew up in cities, and it's where we feel most at home -- surrounded by millions of uninterested strangers in packed subways cars lol. Concrete jungle. Strange but true.

That said, the current situation is untenable. And we really don't like development-like suburbs too much. We are extreme people -- we want either to be in NYC or on something like 10 acres, but we won't be happy in between. And we can't stay here any longer, so...

Good to hear about Iowa. I spent a day in Iowa and was impressed by the quality of the people. I felt at home there. Agricultural areas are equally fine... honestly, I feel like it would be better in some ways. The only thing I'd be a little concerned with are all the industrial pesticides in the air, but hey, I'll take what I can get.

Welcome to the forum and hope you find your questions answered ,But I think you may be in for a rude awakening in this new age society.If I were young and just starting out I'd go to midwest but then I'm sure PTB have plans for that area too.
Ir anyone can help you make realistic decisions its some of the people here.Since you love NYC maybe upstate NY would be nice?:dunno:
 
Welcome to the forum and hope you find your questions answered ,But I think you may be in for a rude awakening in this new age society.If I were young and just starting out I'd go to midwest but then I'm sure PTB have plans for that area too.
Ir anyone can help you make realistic decisions its some of the people here.Since you love NYC maybe upstate NY would be nice?:dunno:

Thanks, that's good advice. The reason we aren't interested in staying within the state is because of the laws and regulations, and also because even if we only lived 100 miles outside of NYC, we wouldn't come in any more often than if we lived a 2000 miles away -- you have to overcome so much inertia just to get in the city.

By the way, what's PTB? I understand what you mean completely :) but I'm wracking my brain to figure out what it stands for!
 
Thanks, that's good advice. The reason we aren't interested in staying within the state is because of the laws and regulations, and also because even if we only lived 100 miles outside of NYC, we wouldn't come in any more often than if we lived a 2000 miles away -- you have to overcome so much inertia just to get in the city.

By the way, what's PTB? I understand what you mean completely :) but I'm wracking my brain to figure out what it stands for!

PTB aka powers that be. Your welcome ,you two sound like a smart ouple so I'm sure your figure it out and find a nice place. Your young so you'll survive. Remember too you don't want to move to the same kind of place your running away from. Investigate.Always remember hind site is 2020.
 
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SW PA may be worth a visit.

An hour or south of Pittsburgh you can get 100 acres for about $1M.

Gun laws are good. Gas taxe are on the high side but asides from a dictator as governor (term limited to go next year) it a great place to live almost WVA.

Disclaimer
People out this way are still flying Trump flags in their front yard.

Re: debt
Check out Dave Ramsey. He offers help with getting out debt.

Ben

Ben
 
I feel bad for the young these prices now are terrible. We have young family members trying to buy land now too, and my daughter has been looking for about a year. Prices are bad. 49 undeveloped acea was half a million. and it was not that nice a piece of land.Thye didn't get it and still looking.They don't want to leave Georgia and family.
 
SW PA may be worth a visit.

An hour or south of Pittsburgh you can get 100 acres for about $1M.

Gun laws are good. Gas taxe are on the high side but asides from a dictator as governor (term limited to go next year) it a great place to live almost WVA.

Disclaimer
People out this way are still flying Trump flags in their front yard.

Re: debt
Check out Dave Ramsey. He offers help with getting out debt.

Ben

Ben
100 farming acres and a big house and a little house with a barn and outbuildings just sold across the road from us for $1.2 mil. Sounds like your prices are similar to ours, Neb.

Thanks!! I never considered Pennsylvania because I only know Philly LOL

Good to know the prices. What do people think in terms of acreage needed for 50-75% meat and fruit/vegetable self-sufficiency (for two people)? I'll never run a commercial farm, but I would like to produce my own high quality food.
 
I'm in rural Kansas, Amish country, lifetime urbanite. Just comparing our prices to Nebs in Penn. Sounds similar.
I'd say it depends on what kind of meat you're raising. If it's just fowl, like chickens and turkeys, maybe add in rabbit, then the acreage is minimal. Self sufficieny with those animals would also mean acreage to grow and harvest the grains they eat. If you're talking cows, then you need more land. Sheep need grass or you're going to have to buy their food. Fruit takes more landspace than vegetables, because fruit would most likely be tree based. Vegetables are pretty easy in a greenhouse, but even in our area, heat is required in the greenhouse in the colder months. A lady across the way from us uses a portable propane heater in her super large greenhouse that is hooked up to their propane tank. Deep South Homestead (Danny and Wanda King) have done an amazing job with the land they have. I don't know how much land they have, but it's not 50 acres, I believe it's less. Look for them on youtube.
 
That 100K urban area you need to be near does not make New Hampshire an attraction. It forces you (I think) into the Manchester area, which is Massachusetts North. In Vermont the only area would be Burlington/Chittenden County, which is New Jersey North (aka Progressive (socialist) country). In Maine you would need Portland, and land west of there may be a possibility, I dunno.

Looks to me like Iowa could work for you. I worked at the John Deere plant (Cedar Rapids) some back in the 80s; dunno how much things have changed since.
 
Be sure there is a good supply of water.Can't do anything in a drought ,in N.Geogia awhile back coes and other livestock was dying in the fields because of no water. One drought can wipe out a good farm or ranch. I think clean water is our most precious resource.
 
We had neighbors that moved to the base of the panhandle of Idaho, they bought 80 acres and basically started life all over again as there were no buildings on the property, they are living at a 1,000 feet higher elevation than the 1,400+ feet here so they get a little more snow. The thing is if you want to live closer to a larger city, you'll have to compete with Californians, the plus is that Idaho is very conservative.
 
I'm in rural Kansas, Amish country, lifetime urbanite. Just comparing our prices to Nebs in Penn. Sounds similar.
I'd say it depends on what kind of meat you're raising. If it's just fowl, like chickens and turkeys, maybe add in rabbit, then the acreage is minimal. Self sufficieny with those animals would also mean acreage to grow and harvest the grains they eat. If you're talking cows, then you need more land. Sheep need grass or you're going to have to buy their food. Fruit takes more landspace than vegetables, because fruit would most likely be tree based. Vegetables are pretty easy in a greenhouse, but even in our area, heat is required in the greenhouse in the colder months. A lady across the way from us uses a portable propane heater in her super large greenhouse that is hooked up to their propane tank. Deep South Homestead (Danny and Wanda King) have done an amazing job with the land they have. I don't know how much land they have, but it's not 50 acres, I believe it's less. Look for them on youtube.

If we had it to do over again I'd put all the money and work into a solarium or lean to. That way you c anuse the heat of the sun and in winter in the house.No going out dealing with temperature controls or alternative heating. Plants are right there at your leisure in case of illness. Amazing what you can grow in a small area if its done right.
You can use shade clothe after first 6 or 8 hours of sun,and fan thru window or door.
 
We had neighbors that moved to the base of the panhandle of Idaho, they bought 80 acres and basically started life all over again as there were no buildings on the property, they are living at a 1,000 feet higher elevation than the 1,400+ feet here so they get a little more snow. The thing is if you want to live closer to a larger city, you'll have to compete with Californians, the plus is that Idaho is very conservative.

Yes, and it's starting to dawn on me that as long as the state itself isn't saturated, then being near a smaller population center won't be much different from being near a larger population center: the catchment area for population will simply increase in size.
 
How about Missouri? That’s where my hubby and I want to retire. But part of that reason is it’s halfway between where my kids snd his kids live. But that may change. It’s beautiful in the Ozarks. We currently live in Oklahoma and I’m very happy here. I’ve lived in Illinois most of my life.
All the states you named get too cold for my likes.
 

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