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- Nov 26, 2017
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All the lumber I can find is pure crap anymore. 10 years ago, clear pine was everywhere. Have to make kid's stuff from pine, could not sell it if it was from anything else, too expensive.
The don't burn but they do warp in a fire. A wood house will stand longer than steel studs in a fire. Have you considered concrete?From my perspective steel studs are the way to go. Expensive you bet, but no rot, warping, and the critters don't like to chew on them. As a competitive contractor, they are a no - go. For a home buyer who plans to stay, maybe for several generation, they are the best option, IMHO. That is what I plan to use in the THH project. One added benefit, they don't burn.
The don't burn but they do warp in a fire. A wood house will stand longer than steel studs in a fire. Have you considered concrete?
From my perspective steel studs are the way to go. Expensive you bet, but no rot, warping, and the critters don't like to chew on them. As a competitive contractor, they are a no - go. For a home buyer who plans to stay, maybe for several generation, they are the best option, IMHO. That is what I plan to use in the THH project. One added benefit, they don't burn.
I find steel stud construction vulgar and ugly! I can take a steel stud and wad it up with my bare hands, you wont do that with a good ole piece of pine. It's kind of like a friend of mine that is building concrete log homes with 1/2 inch steel roofing. He says they will last a 1000 years they cost 10 x as much and who really wants a 1000 year home a 100 is just fine with most folks I know.
Concrete construction is too brittle. It will crack exposing the steel reinforcement in an earthquake and it will explode if it is rapidly heated due to the water and air sealed inside.
Steel studs have no resilience and depend on the sheathing for load support in an earthquake or fire. At 350F steel studs will lose 50% of their strength.
Wood studs are resilient and have great compressive strength and will bend and deform in an earthquake and return to their normal position after the quake. In a fire the wood studs are protected by the sheathing from the heat. Wood has to get to 451F before it burns and a 3/4" sheathing will prevent that for an hour. The thing is that as wood gets hot it is stronger until the cross section is reduced to 60% of its original size. That burning takes a long time. I used concrete board (Hardy board) over the sheathing on my shop and garage which adds another hour before the sheathing starts to burn. Now it takes 2 hours to get to the studs. On the inside I used sheathing with drywall over the sheathing to provide the same protection on the inside. Insect damage is a concern but there are spray on coatings that provide protection from them without subtracting from the fire resistance. (boric acid sprays work well for insects and add fire resistance to the wood)
In my life earthquakes have been the main threat with fire next. I have seen foundations crack in an M6 to M7 quake but the wood structure is fine. Having the wood fastened to the foundation is to help strengthen the beam strength of the foundation and to keep the wood structure from moving off the foundation. I used tie-down bolts on 32" centers instead of the required 6 foot or recommended 4 foot centers to add to the overall strength. The added cost is minimal but the added strength is over 50%. I also used adhesive between the wall and foundation. I did that to keep insects and water out and to help tie the wall to the foundation.
I like metal. I work with it a lot and know its strengths and weaknesses. I would never use metal studs in a home. I might consider using the metal floor joists as studs in an 8 inch wall but I would make sure that the sheathing was thick enough to prevent heat from getting to the wall interior and it would be fastened with twice the number of fasteners recommended. Steel is alright in an office building where it doesn't handle high loads and you need to go through the walls to escape but in a home it makes no sense at all.
This reply is not a challenge to your post but a quest for more knowledge. (1) Concrete is too brittle. The location for the THH project has no recorded earthquakes of any significance. So cracking is not a major worry. (2) Concrete will explode if rapidly heated. I agree on this point. Burning embers from a forest fire are the major issues. The risk of fire damage is mitigated by keeping major combustibles a minimum of 100 feet from the structure and the installation of a roof top sprinkler system. (3) Boric acid spray to protect against insects. I have no experience with this treatment or the effective life span of this product /procedure but I would be concerned is it not a 100 year product. Plus the additional cost of treating every piece of lumber, precut and after cutting. Once the wood in encapsulated in the walls, any missed spots is an open invitation to hungry insects. Desert insects play havoc on any construction grade lumber and there are no plans to call Terminex. I really like the idea of tie-downs on 32" centers, no earthquakes but the added 50% strength is a solid bet and price point effective. Steel I-Beam construction for roof / load bearing walls will be a must and doubling up of attachment screws should also be a given. The upfront cost of the main house structure cost is going to be high but the durability is the driving factor. Also solid concrete walls are difficult to shoot through, just one added feature along with temperature variance control. Design criteria --- (A) Extreme durability. (B) Minimal maintenance. (C) Defend-ability. (D) Reliability of systems. (E) System efficiency. (F) Family comfort. (G) Completely self sufficient -- off grid -- food production.
Sheepdog, I certainly appreciate your input, it gives me food for though and an opportunity to challenge my concepts. Thank you for your valued reply, it helps a lot.
I grew up with my immediate family owning concrete plants. Ive mixed 1000s of yards of concrete and I promise you I can mix some mud that will do the job. Not all concrete is equal.
Have you considered ICF, if I remember correctly, forms. Foam on both sides acts as a form and later insulation. The concrete will act as a ballistic barrier. They come for 4", 6", and my favorite, 8" concrete walls. Yes, you will eventually get through it but you must hit the exact same spot several times or have something really big. The spalling will eventually start but that should be caught by the interior foam and interior finish. An outside facade of cinder block or brick will create a fire barrier and added ballistic protection.
I grew up with my immediate family owning concrete plants. Ive mixed 1000s of yards of concrete and I promise you I can mix some mud that will do the job. Not all concrete is equal.
Odd thing here. 8 ft 2x4s are cheaper than studs right now. Don't think I have ever seen that.
We put liners in our cisterns. The wood cisterns are a constant battle. Concrete can settle and crack or have air that didn't get vibrated out. Aluminum will eventually get pinholes in it and I don't want to drink out of an aluminum tank anyway. We use Hypalon liners and have them custom made. They last for many years. Another option is to build the cistern the same size as an above ground swimming pool and buy one of those liners.Great minds think alike. I have considered the ICF and it is on my list of possibles. I need to figure out if it can be water proofed (think cistern) or find a way to go from regular concrete to the ICF for the above ground walls. I do like the 8 inch too and I also agree the foam should dramatically stop or at least slow down the spalling affect from heavy rifle fire. The other wonderful advantage of the ICF is the added insulation factor. Minimal heat or cooling loss. A great suggestion Caribou.
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