My back hurts

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phideaux

phideaux

Old fashioned
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Nov 24, 2017
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Another thread about back problems inspired this thread.

Probably 75% or more of people I know have back problems.

My first procedure was in 1980 , from injury during military service. Yep a long jump , short landing.
3 herniated disc , l2,l3,l4.
There was a new TRIAL injection they tried , suppose to solidify the disc , and prevent herniation.
Well it was a failure, with screaming pain for weeks.

1 year later I had surgery to repair l4. Some relief for a while.

3 years later , 1984 , had 2nd surgery to repair l4.

Wow I went to 1997, about 13 years in and out of pain, then 3rd surgery to repair l4 disc. Did good , lower pain for tolerable but very restrictive , (light lifting, and limited time on feet), until 2012.
Pain got so bad I had to contact a new neurosurgeon.

After all the CT scans ( can't do MRIs , too much meatal in my body, he determined that L4 disc,L5 disc, and we're pretty much gone and I have bone against bone between L4 L5,S1 .
He advised against any further surgeries , as it would take at least a year to recover and may not help very much. I appreciate his advice.
He put me on a strong antiinflammatory.
That really helped a lot . At least I could function , with low level pain.
Until about 5 years ago I developed blood clots , I had to go on blood thinners.
Guess what no more INSAIDs.

So now I function with pain , live on acetaminophen.

Will have back pain until I leave this world.

Poster child?

Jim
 
Somewhat same deal, minus the surgeries. I hurt mine initially in 1988. Damaged l4 and l5 disk. I've done physical therapy several times over the years when it gets really inflamed and I just can't mange it any more. My dr provides Skelaxin for muscle relaxers which help when it flares up. Anti inflammitories at times as well. I've had MRIs over the years, last one in 2019. I was told then (again) that surgery for me would be 50/50 at best if it would help or not. At this point I choose to wait and deal with it.
Other than the pain at times, my biggest problem is loss of flexibility. Some days its hard to put shoes and socks on. Trimming toe nails is a major challenge. Even last few years noticing a loss of strength when back muscles are heavily involved.
I agree it is no fun. And surprises me how many folks have back issues.
 
I've talked about my back injury when I fell down concrete stairs when I was 19 years old. I've also said that I feel it every day! I do.

I just want to give some input about pain medication, and I believe that is another thread we could have, over the counter pain medications. As a person who has also dealt with migraines as well as back pain, I've taken aspirin products that also contain caffeine and acetaminophen. That works for migraines, but not just the recommended dosage of two. If I wake up with a migraine, I will take 3 or 4. That is not good to take that many, but it is not good to not be able to move due to a migraine and I've worked with people who had debilitating migraines for days. I won't allow a migraine to do that to me, but they did when I first got them. Someone once suggested I just not take anything and let the headache pass. I tried that, and when I was vomiting, I suggested that she do that when she got her next headache, and I would deal with mine in the way that works for me.

The acetaminophen is the most concerning part of the migraine aspirin medication. It is really hard on the liver. I had a doctor tell me one time that it was something that was pushed at one time, and he thought it was the worst thing relative to pain treatment, given the damage it can do. What I have learned is that some people cannot take aspirin. I can and do. I have a bottle by my bed, one in a drawer by my spot on the couch, one in my overnight bag. I am never without the possibility of being able to take a couple.

Back to your back pain. It is obviously from an injury and without a surgical procedure, I don't know if this would be of any help to you. For me, visiting a chiropractor does offer me relief. It takes a few visits, and some chiropractors like to do regular treatments. I have a friend who pays a fee, and sees her chiropractor any day she wishes. She inherited a bunch of money, and therefore has the funds to do that. I do not have those kinds of funds, so I don't. There are also some exercises that can be done that offer relief, but I don't know that they would offer you any relief. There are a couple of physical therapists on Youtube, Bob and Brad, who have frequent videos, maybe daily, that offer suggestions about all kinds of body pain. Here is one of their videos. It may offer you any help, or not, but they do have some humorous comments.
 
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I did the chiropractor once years ago , ended up with more pain and problems than when I started .
I demanded my money back after 6 months. I still owed money I didn't pay , he didn't ask for it.
Been the physical therapy also..no help.

Where surgery is needed, manipulation won't help.

Jim
 
The only thing I could do to stop the back pain from the L5 disc was to put an ice pack on it at night to numb the pain so I could fall asleep. Ice pack tucked into the waistband on the back of the shorts and pull up the sheet and blanket until the pain eased enough so i could sleep. I still have to use the ice occasionally but the pain finally eased up about 6 months ago. Now it is only an occasional problem.
You have my sympathy, back pain is nasty stuff.
 
L3-4 and L4-5 for me. A chiropractor can help with the rest of my back but I won't let them touch that area anymore. Physical therapy helped, some. I had my nerves burned but that made it worse. I had been asking my pain doc to get me off the pain meds. One day, after a procedure, I saw the look on his face and knew that I was out of options. I learned to ignore the pain for many years. It has gone beyond my capacity to do so.

They have me on hydrocodone, 10Mg every six hours. I take 5Mg every three hours or less, depending on my activity. At the 10Mg level I feel like my head is in a bag of cotton balls, I don't like it. At the lower, more frequent, level the peak isn't as high so I don't feel loopy. With the every three hours dosing, drug concentration doesn't get as low so I avoid the pain after about hour 5.

My recliner gives me the best results.
 
havasu said:
Have you tried acupuncture Jim? I did, no help, but others swear by it.
Click to expand...
I pulled a muscle in my back so bad I couldn't move my head. I went to an acupuncturist and he relived my pain instantly.
On muscle problems acupuncture is a great option. On disc problems there is probably not much one could do for you. I don't know a single person that ever got over a back injury. Once it's hurt backs tend to stay hurt.
I'm sorry to hear you all have back problems.
 
Weedygarden said:
I've talked about my back injury when I fell down concrete stairs when I was 19 years old. I've also said that I feel it every day! I do.

I just want to give some input about pain medication, and I believe that is another thread we could have, over the counter pain medications. As a person who has also dealt with migraines as well as back pain, I've taken aspirin products that also contain caffeine and acetaminophen. That works for migraines, but not just the recommended dosage of two. If I wake up with a migraine, I will take 3 or 4. That is not good to take that many, but it is not good to not be able to move due to a migraine and I've worked with people who had debilitating migraines for days. I won't allow a migraine to do that to me, but they did when I first got them. Someone once suggested I just not take anything and let the headache pass. I tried that, and when I was vomiting, I suggested that she do that when she got her next headache, and I would deal with mine in the way that works for me.

The acetaminophen is the most concerning part of the migraine aspirin medication. It is really hard on the liver. I had a doctor tell me one time that it was something that was pushed at one time, and he thought it was the worst thing relative to pain treatment, given the damage it can do. What I have learned is that some people cannot take aspirin. I can and do. I have a bottle by my bed, one in a drawer by my spot on the couch, one in my overnight bag. I am never without the possibility of being able to take a couple.

Back to your back pain. It is obviously from an injury and without a surgical procedure, I don't know if this would be of any help to you. For me, visiting a chiropractor does offer me relief. It takes a few visits, and some chiropractors like to do regular treatments. I have a friend who pays a fee, and sees her chiropractor any day she wishes. She inherited a bunch of money, and therefore has the funds to do that. I do not have those kinds of funds, so I don't. There are also some exercises that can be done that offer relief, but I don't know that they would offer you any relief. There are a couple of physical therapists on Youtube, Bob and Brad, who have frequent videos, maybe daily, that offer suggestions about all kinds of body pain. Here is one of their videos. It may offer you any help, or not, but they do have some humorous comments.
Click to expand...

Weedy I tried the chiro early on, at first I got a little relief but wasn't long I could tell it was makin it worse. I do try to keep up with some of the PT exercises. I've also started watching Brad and Bob. They have some good takes on various stuff. I check out others as well.
Ibuprofen helps some, but only in higher doses 600 to 800mG. I try not do that very often. Doc has also given me hydro condone but I really try and save it for when I just can't stand it.
Ice is a friend for sure. The other thing that gives me more relief is a TENS unit. I run it as hard as it will go to fatigue the muscles. That does give some relief for a while.
But like other have mentioned, just learning to deal with it is about all you can do sometimes

I sure hate so many on here have back problems.
 
Ice packs , after heat , helps some , (the ice prolongs the good affects of the heat for at least 4 hours , per Doc) just don't get opportunity to do it as it should be done.

I have so many other health problems , 1/2 of a heart, lung blood clots , half colon removed, vertebrae in neck are all but gone, kidney fct bad, 2 metal knees, stents, buried schrapnel, to name a few.

Gotta be very careful with meds.
No INSAIDs at all.
Can't take hydrocodone or oxycodone. Only in emergency.

Another words I'm screwed up. 🙄☺️

I refuse to stop working and doing things I want to....just MUCH slower.😎😊

Jim
 
My nephew was taking 80mg of oxy a day for pain. He stopped that and went to medical MJ. He is almost pain free. I know it's not available everywhere but here it is.
When my MIL was in ICU there was a lady in the waiting room every day. My SIL asked her who was she visiting. It was her 35 year old daughter. She had gone to a chiropractor and he popped her neck and paralyzed from the neck down. She did not survive. That was enough to convince me to never go to a chiropractor.
I know it was a freak thing but I'm not willing to take a chance.
I have had an off and on pain between my shoulder blades for years. One doc told me it was my gall bladder. No idea if it is or not. It's not debilitating but it's not fun either.
 
phideaux said:
Ice packs , after heat , helps some , (the ice prolongs the good affects of the heat for at least 4 hours , per Doc) just don't get opportunity to do it as it should be done.

I have so many other health problems , 1/2 of a heart, lung blood clots , half colon removed, vertebrae in neck are all but gone, kidney fct bad, 2 metal knees, stents, buried schrapnel, to name a few.

Gotta be very careful with meds.
No INSAIDs at all.
Can't take hydrocodone or oxycodone. Only in emergency.

Another words I'm screwed up. 🙄☺

I refuse to stop working and doing things I want to....just MUCH slower.😎😊

Jim


Now I just feel like a whiner. Probly cause I am. 😳
Click to expand...
 
Weedygarden said:
I've talked about my back injury when I fell down concrete stairs when I was 19 years old. I've also said that I feel it every day! I do.

I just want to give some input about pain medication, and I believe that is another thread we could have, over the counter pain medications. As a person who has also dealt with migraines as well as back pain, I've taken aspirin products that also contain caffeine and acetaminophen. That works for migraines, but not just the recommended dosage of two. If I wake up with a migraine, I will take 3 or 4. That is not good to take that many, but it is not good to not be able to move due to a migraine and I've worked with people who had debilitating migraines for days. I won't allow a migraine to do that to me, but they did when I first got them. Someone once suggested I just not take anything and let the headache pass. I tried that, and when I was vomiting, I suggested that she do that when she got her next headache, and I would deal with mine in the way that works for me.

The acetaminophen is the most concerning part of the migraine aspirin medication. It is really hard on the liver. I had a doctor tell me one time that it was something that was pushed at one time, and he thought it was the worst thing relative to pain treatment, given the damage it can do. What I have learned is that some people cannot take aspirin. I can and do. I have a bottle by my bed, one in a drawer by my spot on the couch, one in my overnight bag. I am never without the possibility of being able to take a couple.

Back to your back pain. It is obviously from an injury and without a surgical procedure, I don't know if this would be of any help to you. For me, visiting a chiropractor does offer me relief. It takes a few visits, and some chiropractors like to do regular treatments. I have a friend who pays a fee, and sees her chiropractor any day she wishes. She inherited a bunch of money, and therefore has the funds to do that. I do not have those kinds of funds, so I don't. There are also some exercises that can be done that offer relief, but I don't know that they would offer you any relief. There are a couple of physical therapists on Youtube, Bob and Brad, who have frequent videos, maybe daily, that offer suggestions about all kinds of body pain. Here is one of their videos. It may offer you any help, or not, but they do have some humorous comments.
Click to expand...



i love those guys weedy and they have helped me. great channel.

ive got chronic back pain too. i found a chiro i like who uses that hand held tool called something like Activator or something--it taps things back in to place instead of having a guy [put a knee on youk and twist, lol. this newer method works much better for me.

i use topicals tpo like arnica salve that is very good and lidocain. i also use a 50-50 mixture of magnesium oil and water i keep in a roll on container and apply to my lower back liberally before bedtime. it helps reduce the pain and promotes deep sleep--works pretty good roll it on my lower back
i also use a cannabis oil recipe created by a army vet all beat up and dealling with rhumatoid arthritis, he called it No Nonsense and got off all his pain meds using it. it can be taken internally or external salve, works pretty good.

back pain or any kind of chronic pain is hard to live with. praying for all you guys struggling with it. its kinda one day at a time, isnt it?


@kd4ulw
do you know the strength of your CBD oil?
 
kd4ulw said:
Jim, have you ever tried CBD oil?..
Click to expand...

Beat me to it. :) Was gonna quip: 'Got Cannabis'? ;)

@ Jim, NOT suggesting 'get stoned'.. There's SO much more to Mary Jane - the Plant - as Medicine, than, the 'high' aspect.. Which is true of nearly Any "approved Drug", ie: Drink a whole bottle of Robitussin, see what "happens", etc.. It's all about the 'Dosing', and Tailoring the 'strain' to what you're going thru.

..And, it does Not need to be "smoked", there's Lots of options, otherwise - 'Nebulizers' / vaping / 'edibles', etc - and then the Whole world of Non-THC 'CBD', like kd pointed to - Lots of help-options, there..

Not sure what yer 'State Laws' are, there (for "medical MJ", specifically..) but from a 'Biological / Chemistry standpoint', MJ does help in ways that even the Strongest 'opiates' cannot, so..

..Just a thought for some Research. :cool: (and don't forget to buy more Doritos when yer out.. :p kidding! :)

jd
 
Jim n Rick... when modern medicine can't go further, it's time to look else where.

Website for Jim McDonald, a great young herbalist. He lives and runs a good herb school in Michigan. I first learned of using mullein for herniated discs from this man...

Back pain, a comphrensive aproach, write up on herbs used most often, how/why/when to used them...
https://herbcraft.org/backpain.html
The many uses of the medicine plant mullein.
mullein... by herbalist jim mcdonald


michigan herbalist jim mcdonald ~www.herbcraft.org~ herb classes, weed walks and other herbal opportunities... - site portal

Herbcraft - Seeds & Stems... (or, rather: "herbal articles and blatherings") - list of medicinal herbs with good write ups on most..
 
phideaux said:
No I haven't , for reason you said .
I know people that had no good results also.

Jim
Click to expand...
My cousin blew his back out in his 30s and a combination of acupuncture and cupping really helped him for several years. He said the cupping would pull the inflammation fluid right out of his lower back, to the point where the acupuncturist would have to wipe him off with a towel.

I've got my own back troubles, but I can manage it so long as I'm very religious about proper body mechanics, using lumbar support, and I sleep in a supportive recliner a lot. If I sleep on my stomach or my back in bed I'll hurt for two days...
 
Spikedriver said:
My cousin blew his back out in his 30s and a combination of acupuncture and cupping really helped him for several years. He said the cupping would pull the inflammation fluid right out of his lower back, to the point where the acupuncturist would have to wipe him off with a towel.

I've got my own back troubles, but I can manage it so long as I'm very religious about proper body mechanics, using lumbar support, and I sleep in a supportive recliner a lot. If I sleep on my stomach or my back in bed I'll hurt for two days...
Click to expand...
I also have started a weightlifting regimen including deadlifts and front squats or Goblet squats. I'm trying to strengthen my back without overdoing it and hurting it worse...
 
I had serious back pain for years, plus carpal tunnel. I know my issues weren't as serious as others on this thread but I was still in major pain. The doctors that I went to all wanted to operate. I was hesitant in letting anyone cut open my back. Someone suggested going to see a massage therapist. I didn't see how a "simple" massage could help, but I went anyway to a little Filipino girl in town. I was wrong! That little beatle just about had me in tears, no happy ending with her! After working on me for a few months I no longer have carpal tunnel and most of my back pain is gone, and that was over 20 years ago. I dont know if a good massage therapist would help you guys or not, but it made a believer out of me.
 
Bacpacker said:
Ill give this a watch tonight.
Question, would mullien grown from seed be anywhere near as good as natural plants in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Easiest plant to grow... just about anywhere. I know of a lady who saved a few of the long seed stalks. Picked a spot where she wanted to grow... Gave the stalks to her grandkids for a sword fight... and walked away.

It grows in the gravel of my driveway sometimes. It's a wild plant, it grows where it wants. You can put a fence around it and call it a flower bed... but it's still wild.

Mullein driveway a.JPG
 
Mountain trapper said:
I had serious back pain for years, plus carpal tunnel. I know my issues weren't as serious as others on this thread but I was still in major pain. The doctors that I went to all wanted to operate. I was hesitant in letting anyone cut open my back. Someone suggested going to see a massage therapist. I didn't see how a "simple" massage could help, but I went anyway to a little Filipino girl in town. I was wrong! That little beatle just about had me in tears, no happy ending with her! After working on me for a few months I no longer have carpal tunnel and most of my back pain is gone, and that was over 20 years ago. I dont know if a good massage therapist would help you guys or not, but it made a believer out of me.
Click to expand...
I went to an old Chinese lady once. She looked to be 70 but she had hands like iron. I was in so much pain during the massage. She worked my shoulders over so hard that I wouldn't let her touch my back. I didn't return.
 
Mountain trapper said:
I had serious back pain for years, plus carpal tunnel. I know my issues weren't as serious as others on this thread but I was still in major pain. The doctors that I went to all wanted to operate. I was hesitant in letting anyone cut open my back. Someone suggested going to see a massage therapist. I didn't see how a "simple" massage could help, but I went anyway to a little Filipino girl in town. I was wrong! That little beatle just about had me in tears, no happy ending with her! After working on me for a few months I no longer have carpal tunnel and most of my back pain is gone, and that was over 20 years ago. I dont know if a good massage therapist would help you guys or not, but it made a believer out of me.
Click to expand...
Massage helped a great deal. Although you are not supposed to there were a few times where I parked the truck in the parking lot, had a tall drink of the hard stuff, let it soak in about 15 minutes before I walked in and got onto the table. I made sure I was not staggering or slurring but I by the time she started my muscles were relaxed and it helped get the knots out. It still hurt but the results were better than without the muscle relaxer.

One last thing about the ice. If you get a decent sized ice pack, and wrap it in a litey damp towel or a dry T-shirt, it will stay cold enough to relax the muscles and continue to soak the cold into the muscles to numb them. The only downfall is as the sore muscles start to relax the surrounding muscles start to ache because they are tight too. That starts about 10 to 15 minutes in but goes away at about 20 to 25 minutes. At about 30 minutes I fall asleep and when I wake up a few hours later I push the ice pack to the floor and go back to sleep pain free. The more often you relax those muscles, and the muscles around them, the more they will learn to be relaxed. Now, I agree disc rubbing on disc is painful but getting the muscles to relax is very helpful.
 
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