New Barn - Project #5

[zannej]

I'll have to take some pics of the current state of my barn, but it was a massive wooden barn that was destroyed by a dead tree owned by the timber company. It fell over my fence and on the roof of my barn right in the middle. We consulted some tree removal people and they said they couldn't reach it with their equipment to remove it. Estimate to tear down and replace or to try to fix it was $50k. Insurance didn't even cover 1/4 of that & they canceled right after for bogus reasons.

The roof ridge caved and more of the barn is falling down. We'd hoped it would stay up. It's not really safe for anyone to go in and try to reinforce it & the cows are wary of it but it's their only main shelter from the weather. So, I want to get a new barn built. It won't be anywhere near the size of the old barn, but I want something decently sized for the cows so they can take shelter during the rain. I'm not expecting massive winter storms like this year, but I want to be prepared just in case.

I looked at some options on the lot at Hayco Buildings and tried to ask about modifications and upgrades but the owner said he didn't know offhand. He'd have to ask the companies who make the stuff. I've ruled out wood because they have to be prefabbed with flooring and transported-- and my roads get too narrow. I've decided I want an American Steel Carports structure. Ideally I wanted to build my own, but at the rate I'm going on my other projects, the cows would die of old age before I got something built. As a bonus, the official site for ASC has a design tool.

While on site, I saw a barn I liked (except it had a plywood floor and doorway was only 6' so my cow would hit her horns on it). So, I wanted something taller but not too tall-- since I need to be able to reach the pull-down door. I saw some of the structures had "storage" buildings with a sort of porch overhang. Most of those had a very small building with long covering since it was designed as a car port with small storage (which would actually be great). I wanted a larger building with a small porch. I also saw some of the buildings had a "lean to" part. Some of the advertisement images showed things being stored in the lean-to area and on my way to the place I saw one of their buildings in a yard that had rolls of hay stored under the lean to.

I came up with a very crappy not-to-scale sketch of the barn idea.

I forgot to have the lean-to set back in the drawing but I also started thinking it would look better if it went all the way to the front. The design tool's minimum width for a lean-to was 8'.
Anyway, after playing around I came up with something where the closed in building is 12'W x 16'L x 10'H. Door is 6'W x 7'H. Porch is 20'W x 4'L x 10'H. Lean to is 8'W x 20'L x 8'H (that was the height that made it line up with the end of the main part. Roof pitch 3/12. I chose 12 gauge steel. I played around with some of the options to seal off sides to block wind. This barn will be to the southeast of my house and the back side will face south. Floor will be dirt. So long as the ground level doesn't vary more than 3" it won't cost extra for leveling. I will still need to get anchors of some sort. I wish I could remember more about what we did when the car port was installed in the front.

I wanted the closed in part on the gable on the front to block some wind and rain a bit and to work as a spot to put a solar powered exterior light that attaches with sticky tape. Not sure if it will get enough sun there, so I will have to look at the shadows at different parts of the day.

I was thinking something like this:

I also want a solar powered gable fan at the back. I'm still shopping for a good one. I'm open to suggestions but am hoping it won't be too expensive. I think I want something with batteries to store power. I also wish I knew how to link in some LED shop lights. I will see if I can discuss this with the guy who sells the barns and has them delivered and installed.

I want to order a stall mat kit. They sell them in 12x12 but I can order 1 set of extra pieces to make it 12x16. I'm thinking I could use step 1 and step 2 paving stone sand underneath (but I'm trying to find out from the mfr it if can be used under stall mats).

 

[Peanut]

Here are some barn plans in pdf format. With a little imagination you can take any plan, expand width, height, length or decrease same. You can take parts of several designs that you like and combine them into one design. One of these plans is a simple pole barn.

In southern Louisiana you're not going to need a weather proof barn folks up north need. Prevailing winter winds come from the northwest, prevailing summer winds from the southwest. As long as those two corners block the weather it allows great flexibility with the rest of your design. Example, a pole barn with two enclosed stalls in those two corners would suffice for a few head of livestock. If money was tight I'd just wall up the west side and part of the north wall, adding a couple of stalls would be simple in that corner.

Anyway, these plans might give you some ideas...

 

[zannej]

I was going with the metal prefab ones because there's someone available who actually builds in my town and includes delivery and install in the prices. What he had listed was reasonable for the area.

I'm trying to find a good solar powered gable fan. I want something with backup batteries. Saw this but it looks like it has issues with the motor from some of the reviews. And some said the solar solar panel was insufficient. I want a solar panel that can run LED shop lights as well. I'll need to get some conduit for the wires.

I'm not happy with the complete kits. I saw the 50w solar panel one comes with two 7ah batteries but the 100w one comes with one 6ah battery. I wonder if I can find just the individual pieces for cheaper.

 

[zannej]

So, I was looking at it more and saw that Eco-Worthy makes more batteries. The 6AH battery with the 100w panel is 12v. Eco-Worthy makes a 12v 20AH battery although it looks like a different style. The 100w panel kit with battery is only 2.6AH battery. If I could figure out what sort of leads to use to connect the 20AH one the way the diagram shows, I could use it instead. It's more pricey but I'm hoping in the long run it would help. I'm also wondering if I could use that battery and some sort of inverter to run a couple of LED shop lights.
This is the 100w solar panel kit
This is the 20AH battery although I could go with the 10AH battery.
This is the gable vent with screen that I liked.

The kit that has alligator clips and a charge controller only has a 50w solar panel. Charge controller is pretty small for it but the smallest ones I could find were 20amp.
I saw this 20amp charge controller with USB
And this 20 amp charge controller sans USB

I'm debating which one would be better. I don't need fancy USB ports as far as I know.
Although, I did just find a kit with a 10w solar panel, alligator clips, and the charge controller

I'm thinking I could get the cheapest 100w kit with fan, plus the 20AH battery, and the small kit with the charge controller and alligator clips.

I made a collage of my ideas.

Any thoughts?

(Had to edit bc it kept borking my links).

If I get the 100w panel + fan + wire kit along with the 10w solar panel kit that comes with the charge controller, clips, & 10AH battery, it would be $255.87 plus tax.
If I get that panel + fan _ wire kit along with 20AH battery and 10w solar panel kit sans battery it would be close to $320. So, I think the first option would work better. The 100w panel kit that came with a battery only had a 6AH battery, so 10 is an upgrade.

 

[zannej]

I briefly heard back from the guy who sells and installs the barns. He told me to send him a sketch-- after I'd sent him a link to the not only the sketch but the detailed measurements and info. I sent him screenshots of details from the site. Not sure if he was afraid to click the link or if he didn't notice it or what.
I don't think he read the entire message.
We'll see if he gets back to me again. I sent him screenshots.

 

[zoomzoom]

I only skimmed through your post.
Why is the 3' door at the back? If your main access is from the garage door side of the building, I'd think it best to put the door towards the front.

 

[zannej]

zoomzoom, the reason I want that side door is so I can get in from the back area if I'm walking around from the back and also so I can evade the horned cow. If she gets between me and the big door I want to be able to get to the smaller door at the back. If it's at the front then she would be able to get between both doors. I also plan to set up a divider inside near that door so the cows can't go quite that far back and I can store feed and other supplies in that area.

I requested an e-mail from American Steel Carports with the details:

Structure Details
Style: Utility
Installation Surface: Dirt
Roof: Slate Blue
Trim: Pewter Gray
Gable End Wall: Slate Blue
Side Wall: Slate Blue
Base Price: 12‘x20'
Back Storage Depth: 16'
Roof Style: A-Frame Vertical
Roof Pitch: 3 / 12
Roof Overhang: 6"
Gauge: 12-Gauge Framing
Brace: Standard Brace
Leg Height: 10'
Left Side: Fully Enclosed
Left Side Siding: Horizontal
Front End: Gable End
Front End Siding: Horizontal
Storage Right Side: Fully Enclosed
Storage Right Side Siding: Horizontal
Storage Front End: Fully Enclosed
Storage Front End Siding: Horizontal
Storage Back End: Fully Enclosed
Storage Back End Siding: Horizontal
Trusses: Standard
Right Lean Base Price: 8‘x20'
Right Lean Type: Lean only
Right Lean Roof Pitch: 3 / 12
Right Lean Gauge: 12-Gauge Framing
Right Lean Brace: Standard Brace
Right Lean Leg Height: 8'
Right Lean Right Side: Fully Enclosed
Right Lean Right Side Siding: Horizontal
Right Lean Back End: Left Side With Gable End
Right Lean Back End Siding: Horizontal
Right Lean Connection Fee Side to Side (12-24 wide) 20'L
Doors & Ramps
Storage 6' x 7' Roll-Up Door
Walk-In Door (36 x 80)

Edit: In terms of heaters, could I use something like this 140w chicken heater or this one? Perhaps more than one used in tandem? I will set them where the cows can't touch them so they can't be kicked or hit with horns. I can close the door to the barn if it gets extremely cold and/or put up some sort of windbreak (like hanging a blanket or putting some wood or even those transparent corrugated panels up). We used those on the porch to our workshop and on the sides of the car port. They only broke in some spots because of hurricanes. I can use foam closure strips to make them fit tighter.

 

[zannej]

The response I got from the potentially installer was this:

I don't know what Afv is. The measurements are all wrong. I'm not sure I understand what he's referencing in some of the pricing things. I never asked for concrete anchors. And he forgot the walk-in-door.

I'm going to check with my local hardware store to see if the guy there is able to do business with them and if he doesn't, there are two other closer installers I can ask. This guy's inability to communicate clearly is a problem-- especially if he can't get details/measurements right.

I almost responded with a paraphrase from a Samuel L. Jackson character: "English motherf***er, can you read it?" (Taken from English, motherf****er, Do you speak it?").
I'm going to see if the company sends me a response of any sort and I'll let them know I will go with a different installer because I want to work with someone who doesn't suck at communicating & actually seems interested in selling stuff.

 

[zannej]

I went outside to take a look at the area where I want to put the barn. The old burn pile is not as diminished as I'd thought. It still has chunks of metal and big concrete blocks. I suppose it could be moved with a tractor, but I could also bump the barn a bit north of the area. I got one of those measuring things with wheels that you roll on the ground to measure out 20ft. Sadly, I think there may be more than 3" difference in height so it will require some sort of leveling. I hope the installers will level it for additional cost, (if it's not too expensive). I have cinderblocks and paving stones and can easily get more from the hardware store if needed. If I can get help from a friend I can try to figure out how to level it myself. Might invest in a laser level if I can figure out how to use one.

I will also need a dowsing rod to search for underground waterlines as I can't remember where all the waterlines went. We used to have an old lean-to where we stored the tractor (long before the carport was put up) and it had water and electric. Good news is the breaker box is still there and hooked up. It even has two breakers (or are they circuits?) inside. Bad news is, I'm not sure if it's sealed against water, not sure if they work, and there was a wasp inside building a nest. So, I'll need to figure out how to keep the wasps out and make sure it's dry. No arcing or signs of burning so it might be keeping water out, but I can always caulk around it & find where wasps got in & seal it up. Problem is, I'm not sure how to kill the wasps. I don't want to spray a flammable liquid into the box.

I need to try to get a photo of the general area but I can't see my phone's screen when out in the sun. It goes black (I think it's my screen protector) when bright light shines on the screen.

I did get a pic of the breaker box on the pole though. It's less than 50' from where I want the barn.

 

[zannej]

I talked to the owner of the hardware store. He doesn't deal with American Steel Carports. He thinks they are lying about having 12gauge products. Said it would be too thick. He offers up to 24gauge but said 26gauge would be good. Back when his dad was still alive and running the hardware store, he sold us 2 car ports & installed them. One is perfectly fine. Other got hit by two falling trees so it has some damage. Even with the 1st tree, it still held up pretty well.

I drew a crappy sketch and scribbled measurements but he couldn't read it very well. So I showed him a picture of the Build-A-Barn rendering from different angles. He took a picture of my phone screen with his & then asked me for details to make sure he had leg height, roof slope, dimensions, etc. I want to try to print out some of the images for him & his "metal guy" just in case. He asked about concrete, etc. He really listened and communicated which made me feel so much better. He'll try to get back to me tomorrow.

He showed me one of the car ports with utility buildings already on the lot but the enclosed portion was too small to fit my cows. I told him my fat cow wouldn't fit & would likely put a horn into the wall.

He doesn't do electrical & extra stuff & I know that leveling costs extra. I was told I would need mobile home anchors for the structure.

I don't know how long it will be before this can get put up, but hopefully it will be before the worst of summer so the cows will have shelter.

This is the old barn (looks better from outside as the inside is collapsed in the middle and left side)

This is the general area where I want the barn installed (taken from the side gate over 100ft north)

Satellite image of part of the yard. You may be able to tell that the north side is collapsed. It has collapsed even more since this shot. You may also be able to see the damaged portion of the car port. (There are two of them with a gap in between-- north end of 1 was smashed by 2 falling trees)

With labels:

The spot labeled trash was the old burn pile (in retrospect-- not a good idea so close to the well) There's metal and big chunks of concrete & such in there that would take a tractor to move.

 

[Meerkat]

This day and time with age and future considerations I'dget closer to the residence,but thats just me knowing howglad we are we moved the hens pens several years ago.The soalr fan will be nice too. I'd go with the 100W Mono.But I'm not that knowledgable about solar.

 

[zannej]

Meerkat, this spot will be much closer to the house than the old barn. It will be maybe 60ft from the back door.

Since there is a breaker box out there, I will probably use it to power a gable fan.

Still haven't heard back from the guy on pricing & need to contact him during the weekdays.