How realistic would it be to install a new/rebuilt engine and transmission, that is not computerised, in a currently computerised vehicle?
New Engine
- Thread starter Caribou
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I believe the year of the car dictates the emisions.
You can do stuff that reduces emisions but not make it worse.
Ben
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It's been many years but I recall people taking engines out of boats and putting them in their cars to "un-complicate" things.
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I think if the vehicle is newer than 1996 you may run into troubles, check to see if there is an age for historical vehicles that eliminates the need for emissions testing. I know that the regulations vary by state and even county.
If the question was it is technically possible, yes anything is possible. You may be better off doing an engine replacement using a rebuilt or junk yard engine with something that matches your vehicle model and year....
2 years ago I did an engine rebuild but I kept it emissions compliant because it was not old enough to be exempted from the testing (it was just 20 years old).
If the question was it is technically possible, yes anything is possible. You may be better off doing an engine replacement using a rebuilt or junk yard engine with something that matches your vehicle model and year....
2 years ago I did an engine rebuild but I kept it emissions compliant because it was not old enough to be exempted from the testing (it was just 20 years old).
Alaska does not test for emissions. My '03 Cherokee is having problems with the computer, which they no longer make. Dad's old F-250 is starting to have computer problems. I'd like to get away from those problems, forever.
I have done it before. In Alabama they had no vehicle inspection stuff.
The key part is, if the ECM controls the transmission. If it does, it's probably not doable.
You won't be able to find a transmission that will fit that is not electronically controlled.
Most vehicles made after year 2000 the ECM controls the transmission.
The 1988 TransAm that I put a carbed engine in, the ECM only controlled the torque converter clutch in the transmission.
I had to make a circuit board to replace that function and the radiator cooling fans control.
Schematic:
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My guess is it would be way more trouble than it's worth. Today's technology is so complicated it's difficult to do any maintenance on vehicles. Everything has to communicate with everything else or the car just won't run.
My son put a tuner chip in his RAM truck and got a constant engine light. He never could get it to go out so he just took the tuner out and the problem went away.
My Dad drove a 78 F250 and he always carried a "brainbox" so when he had problems he could just swap it out.
Yesterday I took my wife's new Toyota Highlander through a carwash.
As it started through the attendant yelled put it in neutral and the device that pushes the wheels jumped under the wheel. It was in neutral but the car automatically sets the parking brake. It took 3 tries before I was able to get the brake off and I have no idea how I did it.
You can get an ECM off eBay for $100.
My son put a tuner chip in his RAM truck and got a constant engine light. He never could get it to go out so he just took the tuner out and the problem went away.
My Dad drove a 78 F250 and he always carried a "brainbox" so when he had problems he could just swap it out.
Yesterday I took my wife's new Toyota Highlander through a carwash.
As it started through the attendant yelled put it in neutral and the device that pushes the wheels jumped under the wheel. It was in neutral but the car automatically sets the parking brake. It took 3 tries before I was able to get the brake off and I have no idea how I did it.
You can get an ECM off eBay for $100.
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Yup
Buy multiple backups for both vehicles. I would guess it would be cheaper.
Otherwise purchase an older model vehicle.
Ben
Buy multiple backups for both vehicles. I would guess it would be cheaper.
Otherwise purchase an older model vehicle.
Ben
My cousin always drove Ford trucks from the 80s and he always had 2 or 3 brain boxes in his garage. They were easy to replace. Now, the entire car itself is a computer. I won't even mess with one unless it's something real simple like putting in a battery.
I had a 2001 Buick Century. I drove it all over the country for work. Toward the end of it's life the transmission would start to shift real hard when the weather got wet. My mechanic said that moisture was getting into the ignition system and the computer was trying to compensate for some kind of signal it was getting, telling it that something was wrong. My Buick LeSabre did something similar, except it was random - could be at any time or any weather. If I pulled over and shut it off for a few minutes it would go right back to being a smooth riding pussycat. I'm sure that was a computer problem too...
I had a 2001 Buick Century. I drove it all over the country for work. Toward the end of it's life the transmission would start to shift real hard when the weather got wet. My mechanic said that moisture was getting into the ignition system and the computer was trying to compensate for some kind of signal it was getting, telling it that something was wrong. My Buick LeSabre did something similar, except it was random - could be at any time or any weather. If I pulled over and shut it off for a few minutes it would go right back to being a smooth riding pussycat. I'm sure that was a computer problem too...
Old school gas engine wouldn't be that hard about 3 wires runs the entire thing. We did it all the time back in my motorhead days and jeep days. Might have to weld motor mounts in and make a crossmember but wiring up a chevy motor with a 2 wire alternator is extremely easy.
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Jeep I built with a 355 Chevy motor.
I did it, converted a ‘94 Silverado w/fuel injection to a carbonated engine. The engine was simple, new intake manifold, carburetor and a distributor. The fuel deliver was fairly simple, most fuel pumps put out 40+ psi. You can see on the shiny bleeder valve just lower than the washer fluid tank. It allowed me to supply 2 or 3 psi to the carb, while the rest of the fuel returned to the fuel tank.
I got a cable driven tranny from a friend with a transmission shop (fit chevy trucks 93 and older). So I bypassed the need for electronic control of the transmission.
Summit Racing auto parts had everything I needed. Plus, they have a warehouse in Atlanta. Anything I needed would be here next day via delivery.
I got a cable driven tranny from a friend with a transmission shop (fit chevy trucks 93 and older). So I bypassed the need for electronic control of the transmission.
Summit Racing auto parts had everything I needed. Plus, they have a warehouse in Atlanta. Anything I needed would be here next day via delivery.
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We have an on going project going the other was replacing the engine in an 84 Comero with an ls crate engine and transmision. Most widgets coming from Summit.
Ben
On my wife's Highlander if you leave the gas door, not the gas cap, open for too long there is a procedure you have to do to reset the sensor.
Jeep I built with a LS1 small block, turbo 400 transmission and dual transfer cases and Dana 60 1 ton axles. You can do anything you set your mind to! Its all already been done. They make a harness for everything these days. Turn up the volume and listen to the LS!
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I see no reason why it can't be done as long as engine and trans are non computerized.
As mentioned, engine mounts, trans mount and drive shaft would probably require modification, along with trans and throttle linkage. Ignition, and fuel is all that's left.
There are aftermarket stand alone ignition systems available as well as aftermarket EFI.
As mentioned, engine mounts, trans mount and drive shaft would probably require modification, along with trans and throttle linkage. Ignition, and fuel is all that's left.
There are aftermarket stand alone ignition systems available as well as aftermarket EFI.
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It works.
. Stinky mileage, but plenty of power.
I've done many engine swaps over the years, last one was installing a 90's 1.6 engine into a Suzuki Samurai, I can still pick up those engines without an engine lift. Thing is except for the Samurai, our other two vehicles are Toyota's, regular service and they will run long after I'm gone and I'm happy about that because I don't even like changing oil anymore.
My situation was simple, I didn’t even pull the engine. I got the engine running but saved the tranny for last. Even it bolted up stock, some 94’s came with a cable tranny. I towed my truck to my friends shop. He put in the tranny and adjusted all the cabling.
My only delay was the weather. It was January and my shop isn’t heated. I skipped work on more than a few extra cold days. Seems I had to jumper some wiring (various fault sensors) and figure out a way to mount a temp gauge in the cab.
My only delay was the weather. It was January and my shop isn’t heated. I skipped work on more than a few extra cold days. Seems I had to jumper some wiring (various fault sensors) and figure out a way to mount a temp gauge in the cab.
It can be done, but it would be easier to get an old style engine and transmission and swap them out eliminating the computers. There are several places to look for parts and maybe How-To information. YouTube would be a good place to start. Aftermarket parts suppliers like Jegs and Speedway Motors would be good places to start looking, there may be others but it's been a while since I did major car work so I am not up on the various good suppliers. You might find it hard to find parts for the Cherokee but you might be able to find parts for a CJ.
I did a quick search for Jeep engines and Quadratec came up with many options.
https://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep-engine-fuel-system/engines-crate-motorshttps://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep-drivetrain/transmission/complete-transmissions
People rebuild old jeeps all the time, the parts are there, and you can pick an engine with the torque/HP range you want and probably get a transmission to match.
A welder will be helpful in making mounts to match the new engine and transmission.
I did a quick search for Jeep engines and Quadratec came up with many options.
https://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep-engine-fuel-system/engines-crate-motorshttps://www.quadratec.com/categories/jeep-drivetrain/transmission/complete-transmissions
People rebuild old jeeps all the time, the parts are there, and you can pick an engine with the torque/HP range you want and probably get a transmission to match.
A welder will be helpful in making mounts to match the new engine and transmission.
Oh, just for @Caribou : don't go needlessly replacing an ECM or engine without doing a cold-reboot of the ECM first.
As long as the battery voltage is maintained above +5volts the memory remains intact in it.
If it is corrupted, it will be maintained in that state until a cold-reboot is done.
ECM's stay powered up for 5+ years in a stretch. (Do you think your home PC would still be running fine if left turned on that long?)
Doing a cold-reboot is simple enough and is the first thing a tech will do:
1. Open the hood and driver's door to turn on the dome light.
2. Disconnect the negative battery cable and wait 10 minutes.
3. Reconnect the cable and restart the engine.
The ECM will relearn the fuel system in the next 20 minutes to 2 hours of run time. Ignore any errors (SES light) until it relearns it.
As many have stated here about EMP pulses; it only takes a nearby lightning bolt to corrupt the memory in the ECM.
Edit:
*Some newer model high-tech cars do not like being reset at all! (2018 or newer). Push-button start cars.
They may fail to talk to the 'magic' key-fob.
To find out if your car is one of those, just ask the local auto-parts store which models they won't do "free battery replacement" on.
As long as the battery voltage is maintained above +5volts the memory remains intact in it.
If it is corrupted, it will be maintained in that state until a cold-reboot is done.
ECM's stay powered up for 5+ years in a stretch. (Do you think your home PC would still be running fine if left turned on that long?)
Doing a cold-reboot is simple enough and is the first thing a tech will do:
1. Open the hood and driver's door to turn on the dome light.
2. Disconnect the negative battery cable and wait 10 minutes.
3. Reconnect the cable and restart the engine.
The ECM will relearn the fuel system in the next 20 minutes to 2 hours of run time. Ignore any errors (SES light) until it relearns it.
As many have stated here about EMP pulses; it only takes a nearby lightning bolt to corrupt the memory in the ECM.
Edit:
*Some newer model high-tech cars do not like being reset at all! (2018 or newer). Push-button start cars.
They may fail to talk to the 'magic' key-fob.
To find out if your car is one of those, just ask the local auto-parts store which models they won't do "free battery replacement" on.
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You guys are coming up with some great stuff, thanks!
If the existing engine is an old design carry over you may be able to convert it back to a distributor or magnetic trigger ignition and carb, There are also some stand alone transmission controllers out there for swaps.
It is an '03 but the vehicle is over four hours by jet or three days buy car from where I am right now so I can't check out which engine it is. There are not that many miles on the engine so putting a carb on it could be an answer.
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I found the basic procedure for my swap in a Chevy truck forum. Look around for a forum dedicated to you model. The example I used was a different model by year, enough difference that I had to figure out a few things myself. But, if you've ever rebuilt an engine you should have no problem making a such a change.
Oh, I remembered, I had to wire up power for the carb and distributor through the ignition switch. I also did away with all the fault lights in the dash... I had to get a little creative with that task.
Oh, I remembered, I had to wire up power for the carb and distributor through the ignition switch. I also did away with all the fault lights in the dash... I had to get a little creative with that task.
While it is something that can be done you can't legally disable any emission control device on cars so equipped.
There is a $25000 federal fine for doing that. If you get paid to do it you can serve time in jail along with paying the fine.
There is a $25000 federal fine for doing that. If you get paid to do it you can serve time in jail along with paying the fine.
This is true, but the odds of any action against you is very slim. I am not saying everyone should remove the emissions but when I swapped out the engine in my old pick up the SMOG check numbers improved considerably so although it might sound bad sometimes it is actually better. Sometimes. Usually as computer vehicles start approaching 20 years many of the emission controls stop being as effective and an "upgrade" to an engine with less computer stuff can actually burn cleaner. With the modern improvements to the old engines they actually run cleaner and more efficient than those made 20 years ago. Sometimes.
