Raised Beds ... I've Completely Blown It

[thankful_k]

Well ... this is what I get. Not planning. Not researching. Not thinking. So now I have to start all over. Here are the misbegotten raised beds:

That's landscaping fabric on the bottom. So now I learn, for the stuff I'm growing I need at least 20 inches of soil. That means 2 more rows of blocks. But I can't stack more blocks, the expanding soil will topple the walls. And the ground is uneven. And the ground cannot be dug except by bunker-busting military airstrikes. And the water lines are already laid.

I need to do this correctly and ONCE. One time. The right way. Forever. I'm sick of these stupid &*%^$-ing money pits. I can't believe all the blood and treasure I have spent on this misadventure ...

Can't stack more blocks. Unstable.
Can't use pressure treated wood. Poison. Out of the question.
Can't use regular lumber. It'll rot out in a couple of years, then more back-breaking labor.
Can't use all-cedar. Not a billionaire.

Short answer, I'm sunk. So ... I have to start over. Cheapest (~$1000 for one bed, I have four to re-do) may be this design:

I'm worried about the roofing metal, if I have to double it up I am now approaching $1300 per bed.

 

[Bacpacker]

How about keeping the block? Use rebar inside the block holes, on the inside of the blocks. Driven into the ground would help hold them in place and shouldn't drive the cost up greatly. 30" would give you a foot in the dirt and 18 up thru the blocks.

 

[thankful_k]

How about keeping the block? Use rebar inside the block holes, on the inside of the blocks. Driven into the ground would help hold them in place and shouldn't drive the cost up greatly. 30" would give you a foot in the dirt and 18 up thru the blocks.

I appreciate the thought ... but there's no driving anything into this ground. It's 6 inches of topsoil and then intermittent boulders ranging from basketball to "volkswagen". No digging ... no driving. The fence guys actually to use hammer drills and masonry bits to set t-posts

 

[thankful_k]

I appreciate the thought ... but there's no driving anything into this ground. It's 6 inches of topsoil and then intermittent boulders ranging from basketball to "volkswagen". No digging ... no driving. The fence guys actually to use hammer drills and masonry bits to set t-posts

Honestly ... in retrospect ... I should have hired a blasting crew and a CAT 395 excavator to carve out about 1/4 acre 2ft deep, and brought in the dump trucks with clay and native topsoil

 

[Pearl]

Get rid of the landscaping fabric, weeds grow from seeds dropped on  top! I'm not far from you but have red clay, aka, concrete!! Till as much as you can and top off with manure and soil! You can make something happen out of what you have done!

 

[zoomzoom]

So now I learn, for the stuff I'm growing I need at least 20 inches of soil.

What is it? How about you change what you're growing?

 

[thankful_k]

What is it? How about you change what you're growing?

Tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, spinach, etc. Honestly I don't want to change the plants ... I gotta change what I'm doing, because I blew it from the get-go.

 

[thankful_k]

I thought of an alternative. How about those Rubbermaid 150gal plastic stock tanks? It's pricey, but there's advantages:

• They have 1.5" drain holes (more could be drilled).
• Critters can't get in from the bottom
• The sides flare out making it (slightly) more difficult for critters to climb in
• I could use the existing bricks and some pallets to bring them up to waist height to make it easier on my back.
• With the pallets, they can be moved with forks and dumped.
• They're narrower, but that also means I won't have to lean over as much /and/or switch sides while I'm working.
• That also means that I can leave gaps between them and not have to walk ALL the way down to the end of the row to get to the other side.
• Problems can be contained to each bed, without contaminating the other beds
• Soil amendments, fertilizers, etc, can be tried/used one bed at a time

Disadvantages:

• Cost. They're $200 each, and I'll need 6 of them to do what I want to do in that first bed pictured
• I'll have to change the irrigation a bit.

The only question mark is toxicity. I called Rubbermaid and they said that while the material (molded polyethylene) is FDA-approved for food contact, the colorant is not. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not been tested and certified. They are however intended for animals to drink from them. The lady I spoke to said perhaps to line the thing with some kind of garden plastic before use, but that wasn't an "official" answer.

With all the upsides, and the (seemingly?) small risk of toxicity, this may indeed be the way to go.

 

[thankful_k]

Then again there's also these, only $10 more and purpose built for exactly what I'm doing, and specifically state non-toxicity. And there is an additional 40 gals of capacity. I'll have to put HW cloth under them, but ... meh.

https://www.amazon.com/Vego-Cascading-Galvanized-Gardening-Vegetables/dp/B09T6CCRLD

 

[UrbanHunter]

Why don't you use the bricks from one raised beds to raise the level of the other? I would suggest shorting your bed a little and place every 3rd brick 90 degrees out so is supports the rest against the press of the soil. You could fill the voids in the bricks with earth and wet it down to secure them together. This wouldn't solve your whole problem, but it would buy you a season that you could use to refine your design.... You could make some wooden L s to brace the outside of the corners, then take some 1/4" cable, wrap it around the bed and then put the whole thing (walls of your raised bed) in compression using a come-along.

If you had the time and energy you could remove the weed cloth and dig down all the dirt to the hard pack and place the bricks on a leveling layer on the hard pack, you don't need weed cloth because of the hard pack bottom and by filling the soil up to the grade level on the outside you will help anchor the walls as you fill the inside will good soil. 3 layers of brick would give you 24 inches for soil and the hard back would hold some water at the base.

I have similar problems here, my soil is red clay on the top and a layer of the gray clay about 2 feet down. When it's dry you just can't dig it, when it's wet you just can't walk on it... but it does make good bricks...

I ended up going with pressure treated 2X12s Lined with 4 layers of 6 mil black plastic. The plastic keeps the water from rotting the wood and the pressure treatment from poisoning my food... I am getting about 10 years of service out of each bed.

 

[sonya123]

Short answer, I'm sunk. So ... I have to start over. Cheapest (~$1000 for one bed, I have four to re-do) may be this design:



I'm worried about the roofing metal, if I have to double it up I am now approaching $1300 per bed.

You could buy vegetables for that for the next 10 years.....

I spent almost no money on the garden. We will have to rent a tiller tomorrow but it's $60

You are making things too complicated. Just put some seeds in the ground, they will grow
we have clay soil and just add some barn manure on top once a year , that's it. I only put a tiny bit of fertilizer on the broccolie ( 0-20-20)

 

[Bacpacker]

I have clay soil as well, with a thin layer of top soil in some areas. Using manure, compost, leaves, grass you can build very good soil on top of it. Granted its not an overnight solution. But is a great way to go over a period of years

 

[thankful_k]

You could buy vegetables for that for the next 10 years.....

I spent almost no money on the garden. We will have to rent a tiller tomorrow but it's $60

You are making things too complicated. Just put some seeds in the ground, they will grow
we have clay soil and just add some barn manure on top once a year , that's it. I only put a tiny bit of fertilizer on the broccolie ( 0-20-20)

Well saving money isn't really the point For me it's self-sufficiency.

This ground I have ... I'm telling you it's bomb-proof. There's no roto-tilling anything here. Just not an option. Might as well try tilling concrete. No joke, the equipment companies won't even rent me a ditcher, once I tell them where I live. "Nope. Sorry."

And I want this to happen now. I was actually supposed to do this last year.

 

[Weedygarden]

I have clay soil and have had lots of rocks as well. I keep working on my raised beds. When I started, I was clueless about what to do to grow food here. Clay is used to make bricks, and that probably would have been a better plan for me in the beginning before I started amending my soil. It is the wrong time of year to really do what I have done in any larger area. Leaves can make a big difference in clay soil, but it takes a few years. I have used untreated landscape timbers that I have mostly gotten used for free. I buy really long spikes from the hardware store, drill holes towards the end of the landscape timber and keep adding layers of the timbers. I do go through my soil and have sifted out many five gallon buckets of rocks. Then I keep adding amendments: aged horse manure, chicken manure, compost, sphagnum moss, leaves. I never plant without amending the soil. In a few years, the soil just gets better and better.

 

[backlash]

Since you can't dig down you need to build up. I would bring in soil and build up the beds. A few yard of top soil would be way less that $1000.
I have a stock tank full of soil that my wife planted flowers in.
It works OK but I would never buy one for growing stuff. They cost too much and there isn't a lot of room.

 

[Neb]

I am converting one pair of my beds to galvanized...

Limited-time deal: FRIZIONE 8x4x2ft Galvanized Metal Raised Garden Bed for Vegetables, Outdoor Garden Raised Planter Box, Backyard Patio Planter Raised Beds for Flowers, Herbs, Fruits https://a.co/d/2uQSb5S

Since my boxes have disintegrated.

But for one year consider sticking with what you have now. I have had great results with only 8" of good quality soil. The only thing that suffered was carrots that wanted more depth. For potatoes mound dirt up above the edges.

After the growing season is over you can decide if you need the extra depth of soil.


Ben

 

[UrbanHunter]

Well saving money isn't really the point For me it's self-sufficiency.

This ground I have ... I'm telling you it's bomb-proof. There's no roto-tilling anything here. Just not an option. Might as well try tilling concrete. No joke, the equipment companies won't even rent me a ditcher, once I tell them where I live. "Nope. Sorry."

And I want this to happen now. I was actually supposed to do this last year.

I find that the hurrier I go the behinder I get...

When I get into a situation like that I find that if I stop, assess what resources I have available to me now and decide what I can do now with what I have I am much better off.

If you only get 1/3 of the crop that you were hoping for, that is more than you would have had. You may learn that you need to do this or that to make it work better for your situation... But you have time working for you... You can be planning and building your next raised bed section while you are watering and watching your plants grow...

I had to do mine in sections and each year I plan to add things to it. This year, I need to remove some old trellises and install something that is much stronger. I am on a very tight budget and I set an annual budget for my garden each year.

 

[thankful_k]

OK, thanks to everyone for their input, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to take a hybrid approach. Here's what I'm going to do:

I'm going to get 3 of the metal beds above from Amazon. They're purpose built, and very few question marks. Tear up all that landscape fabric and lay down 4 ft 1/2 in hardware cloth. The three metal bins will take up half the space of the brick bed. Then I'll take those bricks and double up the bricks on the other half and plant that also. I'll put different mixes of organic mushroom compost and native topsoil in each bed.

Irrigate with 1 in water weekly

I can try several systems and let the chips fall where they may. In any case, plants should come out of the dirt.

 

[SoJer]

..Have you considered...

My Son is doing Great with this technique (can't "dig up" the yard of the Rented house he's in, so.. 'Raised beds', is the only option.. But, this way, he can 'take them With him' (emptied, of course..) when he moves..)

IIRC, can get 'food grade' (even used, ie: ones that hauled pickles, etc - Doubt the carrots, etc will 'care about pickle-stink residue' are maybe ~$30-50. each, and additionally, 'segregated' like this, allows you to 'tailor the Soil' / fertilization / pest-control, etc to each-whatever you're planting.. Also, easier to 'shade tent' (vs a Giant bed..)

Just a thought, Godspeed to you..
jd

 

[Bacpacker]

OK, thanks to everyone for their input, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to take a hybrid approach. Here's what I'm going to do:

I'm going to get 3 of the metal beds above from Amazon. They're purpose built, and very few question marks. Tear up all that landscape fabric and lay down 4 ft 1/2 in hardware cloth. The three metal bins will take up half the space of the brick bed. Then I'll take those bricks and double up the bricks on the other half and plant that also. I'll put different mixes of organic mushroom compost and native topsoil in each bed.

Irrigate with 1 in water weekly

I can try several systems and let the chips fall where they may. In any case, plants should come out of the dirt.

Sounds like a good plan. Do pay attention to your moisture levels 1" may be plenty for some areas. But sorely lacking in others. Not sure of you location or growing zone

 

[ABR]

We use molasses tubs with drainage holes drilled for places we can't dig/till. We have cattle so get a lot ourselves but others I know have found them extra cheap and even free on craigslist. Grown all the veggies you listed and more in them.

 

[montanabill]

20 inches of good soil would be amazing....I have been growing all sorts of things in 10 inches of amended shale. Our soil here is decomposed shale so lots of stuff added. Do some stacking forms for potatoes if you must grow them.
I grow lots and lots of winter keeping squash by digging a hole maybe one foot across in our rock hard soil and maybe one foot down till i hit hardpan (see explosives needed) then I fill the hole with good dirt and mulch. That way I can cover a area with big healthy squash plants since the leaves just lay on top of the rock hard soil.
Maybe it's our low humidity but during the hot part of summer I water every day.....The simple battery powered hose timers work well and I can phase the sprinklers all night so I don't over tax our well.

 

[thankful_k]

Sounds like a good plan. Do pay attention to your moisture levels 1" may be plenty for some areas. But sorely lacking in others. Not sure of you location or growing zone

Right re: moisture. As I understand if the soil gets too soupy, then the plants get root problems.

P.S. I'm in far north Texas, Zone 7

 

[Bacpacker]

Right re: moisture. As I understand if the soil gets too soupy, then the plants get root problems.

P.S. I'm in far north Texas, Zone 7

Yes too much moisture is a problem. Root rot is a real thing. But raised beds can drain very quickly and can dry out much faster than you'd expect. Wind and sun both play a part. You really have to track how much rainfall you get and modify the irrigation (of what ever type you use, drip, soaker hose, sprinkler, etc). Just keep a good check 1 to 2" down in the beds every day or two in multiple spots. Some weeks may need water every day, other times may go weeks between watering. It can be very variable.
I'm in Tennessee, we are zone 7b. But I bet we get a lot more rainfall than you do. Only time I was in northern Texas was driving thru Amarillo. It looked VERY dry there in mid October.
BTW, I'm not trying to hog the conversation. Just tell me to shut up.

 

[Pearl]

Right re: moisture. As I understand if the soil gets too soupy, then the plants get root problems.

P.S. I'm in far north Texas, Zone 7

My area, a little southeast of you, has a lot of red clay! A little north of me has nice black dirt! Texas has many soils, moisture is an issue! A lot of rock can drain soil faster, unless it's limestone! So basically, it's pot luck in Texas!!

 

[dademoss]

OK, thanks to everyone for their input, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to take a hybrid approach. Here's what I'm going to do:

I'm going to get 3 of the metal beds above from Amazon. They're purpose built, and very few question marks. Tear up all that landscape fabric and lay down 4 ft 1/2 in hardware cloth. The three metal bins will take up half the space of the brick bed. Then I'll take those bricks and double up the bricks on the other half and plant that also. I'll put different mixes of organic mushroom compost and native topsoil in each bed.

Irrigate with 1 in water weekly

I can try several systems and let the chips fall where they may. In any case, plants should come out of the dirt.

I'm behind, naturally, it's been a busy week. Consider and research planting in straw bales to start, let em decompse and compost in your present beds. I'll second get rid of the landscape cloth, worst mistake I have ever made was to put that in to block the weeds


People have been planting in Mounds/Hi Rows long before concrete blocks were around

 

[Magpie]

I appreciate the thought ... but there's no driving anything into this ground. It's 6 inches of topsoil and then intermittent boulders ranging from basketball to "volkswagen". No digging ... no driving. The fence guys actually to use hammer drills and masonry bits to set t-posts

We have the same land. I've used tractor tyres for my fruit trees as a last resort. I know they aren't organic, but I got them for free. Uses wood for my beds- laid boxes, straw and top up with my own compost. Check out Charles Dowding on youtube/ or books- no dig gardening, he has some useful stuff and doesnt use edging. HOME or the hugelkulter system? How to Build a Hugelkultur Raised Bed Garden

 

[Pearl]

We have the same land. I've used tractor tyres for my fruit trees as a last resort. I know they aren't organic, but I got them for free. Uses wood for my beds- laid boxes, straw and top up with my own compost. Check out Charles Dowding on youtube/ or books- no dig gardening, he has some useful stuff and doesnt use edging. HOME or the hugelkulter system? How to Build a Hugelkultur Raised Bed Garden

Great links!!

 

[thankful_k]

We have the same land. I've used tractor tyres for my fruit trees as a last resort. I know they aren't organic, but I got them for free. Uses wood for my beds- laid boxes, straw and top up with my own compost. Check out Charles Dowding on youtube/ or books- no dig gardening, he has some useful stuff and doesnt use edging. HOME or the hugelkulter system? How to Build a Hugelkultur Raised Bed Garden

I am probably going to do this ... I have a LOT ... i mean a LOT, like several tons, of cut-down/bulldozed trees here. Gotta be careful though ... bad guys hide in those piles.

Also a lot of rotten/decomposing straw and goat poop where I've raked it out of the barn where the goats hang out

Maybe even use some dirt out of the chicken run

 

[SoJer]

...Gotta be careful though ... bad guys hide in those piles.

..Yep, but that's why God invented M-80s and snake-loads.

jd