Safe Water

Help Support Homesteading Forum:

Weedygarden

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
14,497
I think I know why this happens, at least with my pea brain, sometimes while I'm posting on one article something will come across my mind that I don't want to forget so I try to blend it into the present topic, anyway, that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.
LOL!
Well, for me, I have had some laughs about this thread! I know I am off topic more than ever, but I'm going to say what I'm saying because of what happened earlier. I do think it is a great topic, but the delivery was not right. When you are new, you have to observe and learn about how things work. Being narcissistic and condescending in this group will get you gone! I am not trying to cause trouble, but after some others have been making some fun comments, why not join in? My brain is an ADD brain, so that is my story and I'm sticking with that! LOL!
 

Supervisor42

Formerly known as Supervisor42
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
8,683
Location
Louisiana
LOL! I think this is a multi topic thread! I think any topic goes now! But, it was about water.
That is totally us here!:D
Only here, can you go from purifying water, to birthing sheep in just two posts.
...I guess with lots of afterbirth, you need plenty of clean water to wash up with.:thumbs:
 
Last edited:

dademoss

Old Codger
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
5,783
Location
Somewhere near Dunlap Station, Grid square: EM79rf
That is totally us here!:D
Only here, can you go from purifying water, to birthing sheep in just two posts.
...I guess with lots of afterbirth, you need plenty of clean water to wash up with.:thumbs:
Sometimes you just go with the (water) flow :D
 

Weedygarden

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
14,497
Sometimes you just go with the (water) flow :D
It is not everyday that we just go with the flow, and let a thread just spiral downward. I know we had someone whom I think did that in the past, and I really wondered how deliberate it was. I remember one thread where I believe I tried to get it back on track 4 times, but person didn't want it on track. I believe person did it just to be as annoying as possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neb

Supervisor42

Formerly known as Supervisor42
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
8,683
Location
Louisiana
It is not everyday that we just go with the flow, and let a thread just spiral downward. I know we had someone whom I think did that in the past, and I really wondered how deliberate it was. I remember one thread where I believe I tried to get it back on track 4 times, but person didn't want it on track. I believe person did it just to be as annoying as possible.
Weren't me wuz it?
I do make a conscious effort to keep most of my posts on topic.
But I must confess, that I do enjoy watching an awesome train wreck take place. :p
Not to be confused with the urination-contests... that should be conducted in the 'little-boys' room.
>Watch this;):
Most urinals here are flushed with valuable potable water, the same as used in the lavatories and showers. Almost all other countries have 2 water sources everywhere. Drinking water and grey water.
I saw it even at our daughter's apartment in Tampa. Everybody had 2 water meters.
She called it 'inside water and outside water'. (Many people probably do also)
Back on topic, I don't think much treatment would be needed to make the grey-water safe to drink if the other one went down.
Maybe some folks with dual water sources in a city can share some info.
(And magically we are back on topic!:D)
 
Last edited:

Weedygarden

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
14,497
Weren't me wuz it?
Oh heavens, no, not you! You are a fun guy and I am not talking about mushrooms!

Person did it on purpose and then did other stuff so much she got herself removed along with her spouse. Couldn't or wouldn't control herself. Would get someone in her sites and couldn't let go. I know a few people who were the target at one point in time. Most of it was in PM's. She had a few other flying monkeys. Yuck!
 

SheepDog

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
8,571
Location
SE Washington State
I'm not sure how easily you could take gray water and make it drinkable. I would start by running it through a reflux still but I would test the PH to see if it needed more.
 

viking

I know a lot of things, but master very few
Neighbor
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
1,745
Location
S.W. Oregon
Gray water is great for gardens but me... Not so much.

Ben
Actually, about the best use of gray water might be for fruit trees and even then, just once and a while, as for gardens, you'd have to know what's been dumped in the gray water as some things could be toxic to garden plants.
 

Wilsonwalla

New Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Apr 17, 2022
Messages
1
thank you for your contributio
Safe water is a term invented by me because the medical and engineering industries have chosen to codify terms like filtered, purified, etc, but laymen haven't adjusted to this and frequently use these other terms incorrectly. My nomenclature grants us a clean slate to describe what we actually wish to achieve, instead wasting time trying to get everyone to digest medical terminology.

Let me start off with a few key points:
* This is a theory discussion thread, not a gear discussion thread.
* This thread does not cover distillation.
* Your urge to talk about those first two points doesn't negate the fact this is not where I will help with them. Find/make a different thread.
* Look to the end of the discussion for me to elaborate on why I have those two points.

The point of this thread is to bring your knowledge base beyond gear. I see lots of folks on prepping sites talking about what filters, gadgets, and chemicals to use for make drinking water after SHTF or just for wilderness use. The problem I see most often is their focus on the parts instead of the process. When someone suggests some other part or idea many readers get stuck back at zero again unsure how this would affect their planning. But once you understand the process then all your options begin to start making more sense.

Safe Water = Sediment Removal > Biological Remediation > Toxin Removal.

If you understand that process then all you have to do when you see new chemicals, filters, or gadgets is figure how each works and where they fit into the process above. In theory the last two can be switched around but for practical reasons it is better to do toxin removal last as those components tend to have the shortest volume lifespan so the cleaner the water is the longer the toxin filter will last.

The equation explained:

Safe Water is not perfect water. Only labs make perfect water. Instead it means where the risk factors are so low that a moderately healthy or mildly sick person can feel safe drinking it. It need not be crystal clear. It's not sterile, pyrogen free, injectable, triple distilled, or any other term you might see out there. It just means almost everyone can drink it without worry.

Sediment Removal is taking the bulk of the solids out. Solids interfere with the next two processes, making them harder and shortening the lifespan of filter media.

Biological Remediation is removing dangerous lifeforms from the water. There are two levels of this. First is removal of bacteria, cysts, protozoa, algae, and other microflora. The second level is removing viruses. The removal of viruses is only for regions where virus present a realistic threat. Most temperate areas, especially in 1st World nations, have negligible viral water threats. Hot tropical and cold tundra areas do pose special viral risks.

Toxin Removal is dealing with non-living threats in the water. Mycotoxins from the metabolism of living creatures, soluted metals, arsenic, hydrocarbon and other solvent waste, cleaning agents, fungicides, herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers, acid rain, mining runoff, industrial waste, and post consumer runoff all exist out there. The more industrialized and urban an area is the more likely the risk is. Rural areas are not much safer as farms offer their owns risks. Almost every place is downstream from somewhere and anything upstream or up elevation flows down. Acid rain will fall even at very high and population free areas. Even where no man exits there is risk simply from the earth. Naturally occurring metal deposits and arsenic are found all over. Remember that every man created toxin was once something man grew or pulled out of the earth. Your risk for toxins is lowest in wilderness settings of 3rd World tropical nations.

Now let's cover what you can use for each of the three steps.

Sediment Removal
Sand: Preferably clean boiled sand. Play sand is a good choice. Used inline.
Flocculation: Using an agent to clump or flake the sediment so it floats or sinks to the bottom. Used in batch method.
Spun filters: Artificial fibers spun into a cone or cylinder. Used inline.
Filter cloths: Expedient method using cloth or fabric mesh like pantyhose. Used inline.
Paper cloths: Expedient method using strong paper, like a coffee filter. Used inline.
Tight weave wire or nylon mesh: A stainless steel or nylon weave of around 100 mesh fibers per inch grade. Used inline.

Biological Decon
Boiling: Rolling boil for 1+ minutes at sea level.
Ozone: Typically found at pool stores as a generator.
Potassium permanganate: 2.5mg/liter, but will not kill viruses at safe drinking amounts.
Miox: Currently off market but some still available on Amazon and eBay.
Silver: Usually as part of an existing filter. No official guidelines for colloidal mixtures because it is only bacteriostatic.
Xylem: Water filtration using plant xylem - PubMed
Alcohol: ethanol only. Difficult as you need about 20% ethanol (40proof), but 3 parts water to 1 part red wine will work due the phenols.
SODIS: Solar water disinfection - Wikipedia
Iodine: Potable Aqua, Lugol's solution, tincture of iodine 2%.
UV: Steripen, Puritest, UV mercury vapor bulb, Watts, many other brands.
Chlorine: sodium hypochlorite (household bleach), calcium hypochlorite (pool shock), chloride dioxide (tablets).
Sub-micron filtration: .1 micron for everything excepts viruses, .02 micron for viruses.
Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate: Sodium dichloroisocyanurate - Wikipedia

*I'm a real big fan of the last one.

Toxin Decon
Membranes: Inline reverse osmosis cartridges.
Activated carbon (charcoal): Good for most organic and some inorganic toxins. Not good for arsenic, fluoride, or heavy metals. Sometimes called AC or GAC.
Bone char: Better than activated carbon on arsenic, fluoride, and heavy metals. Good for other toxins, but not as good as AC.
Activated alumina: Good for arsenic and fluoride. Not so very healthy itself though.
Zeolite: Good for metals and ammonia compounds; Mediocre for other organic toxins.
Ozone: Good for mycotoxins created by algae and fungi.
Tight packed cilantro/parsley: Cilantro, that favorite salsa ingredient, purifies drinking water - American Chemical Society ; Cilantro Filter: Researcher Find That Plant Has Water Purification Properties ; Cilantro Hailed for its Water Purification Properties - Green Prophet ; Cilantro, that favorite salsa ingredient, purifies drinking water
Banana peels: Dehydrated and powdered homemade media; Banana peels get a second life as water purifier - American Chemical Society ; http://www.mindthesciencegap.org/20...etals-from-polluted-water-an-apeeling-option/ ; 4 Steps for Creating a Banana Peel Water Filter
Nopal (prickly pear) cactus: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/science_nation/cactus.jsp ; Common cactus could be used to clean water

Continued in next post.......
thank you for your contribution, i find this info very useful
 

Supervisor42

Formerly known as Supervisor42
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
8,683
Location
Louisiana
Thank you for bringing this thread back up. I've been laughing so hard, again. This thread was and is entertaining!
Most of the outrageous stuff has been scrubbed, but I saved a little nugget for posterity:
somebody said:
"Finally, I get challenged a lot on my positions. I'm here to help but if I think you are feeling that I'm your obligated research monkey then I'll disabuse you of that notion. Telling me that I'm wrong and then thinking you can send me to prove that I'm wrong is a logic fail. You take on the proof burden if you call out someone on their position."
It isn't often you get to actually watch somebody throw themselves into a bonfire.:LOL:

On topic: Checked our water supply today, still great! :thumbs:
Now, when they issue a 'boil water advisory', not so much:rolleyes:. (May 10th, it ain't us but close)
 
Last edited:

Supervisor42

Formerly known as Supervisor42
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
8,683
Location
Louisiana
I suppose it has been. Too bad. Just reading some of what is left is hilarious. I always wonder if there is an administrative file for where the crazy stuff that has been removed goes. I never think to save it. There is one thread that was deleted and I wish I had that!
Ok, I'm out of fresh water info so this is a little bit of a derail.
A thread @Weedygarden , will love to read this, just for fun, a wonderful glimpse into the past when GH and TF were imploding. Yes, history does live on here...
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/so-everybody-deserted-the-other-forum.5176/
Famous snips:
Nor do you have to pretend to pretend anymore....whatever floats your boat is what I say!
Even if we should cross the line, the moderator should simply edit the post and not make a public spectacle out of it.
While we're on that subject: Moderators can feel free to edit, modify, or delete any post I make and I won't get mad or pitch a fit...
I'm a grown-up:D.
Yaaa! I made it! It's official! I'm now a member of a very select club! :woo hoo:
Guess he didn't like the tumbleweed pic:rolleyes:....
 
Last edited:

Weedygarden

Awesome Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
14,497
Ok, I'm out of fresh water info so this is a little bit of a derail.
A thread @Weedygarden , will love to read just for fun, a wonderful glimpse into the past when GH and TF were imploding. Yes, history lives on here...
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/so-everybody-deserted-the-other-forum.5176/
Famous snips:
Thank you. I am really late getting to bed, so I will read that tomorrow.

Well, since I keep contributing to the downward spiral, what about this thread? Not funny, but is informative and about the implosion.
 

Latest posts

Top