Steam why is it ignored ?

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Tirediron

Tirediron

Seasoned HillBilly
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Rural western Canada, Sunrise side of the Rockies
well other than the dangers, in a post crash world steam seems like a viable solution to the loss of mobility or traction power. Going back to horses or Oxen is romantic, but a lot harder than it appears from the outside.
Steam can be dangerous, but it was the precursor to internal combustion and could serve as a rebuilding block in the future or just one more source of grid freedom now.
 
yes I realize that steam is often used in industrial operations, but rarely mentioned in off the grid or PAW solutions, a steam engine is almost silent and it wood fired the energy source is renewable as well as stationary systems having the heating spin off
 
A great deal of that practical knowledge has passed away. I'm sure there are plenty of books around but nothing beats hands on experience. I'd love to have a steam tractor.
 
building anything mildly complex would be a challenge in a PAW world, but people went to mechanical power sources because of the amount of back breaking labour saved.
 
Steam engines can be built with only hand tools. They are not that hard if you understand how they work. The biggest problem with steam power is that the work you get out depends completely on the amount of heat you put in. A 25 HP steam engine is as big as a 500 HP diesel because you can only get so much heat from wood. Switch to coal and you can make more power but not as much as a diesel engine the same size. Go to turbine engines and you get even more HP per pound. The amount of heat that a nuclear facility can put out makes steam power almost efficient. For a fixed location power source solar/steam can be used but it takes a lot of room. Steam used for power production has to be at hundreds of psi. At 470F you only get 500 psi. to do the work. In contrast a gas engine uses pressures that are 5 to 6 times that and diesel engines use pressures that are 10 and more times that pressure. While you can make a steam powered car or truck it will need to be larger and heavier in order to carry water and fuel but it can be done. Steam powered equipment is a decent use of steam power you could run a full shop on one 50 HP steam engine. If you use the same engine to run a generator you could power a home but not the shop full of equipment. You would still need a good supply of fuel and a nearly endless supply of water. It was once the most efficient power around but it was never very efficient.
 
The steam "engine" can be cobbled together fairly easily but the boiler is the critical part. Any boiler that is "home-made" would have to likely be a low pressure one.
As a part-time amateur machinist I have thought many times about making a small steam engine. Maybe I will do that yet.
 
Steam trivia: Relatively early in my river career the Str. Mississippi Queen was built at Jeffboat Shipyard. One of the bits of info going around was the engines were built from plans "found somewhere" not knowing what vessel the plans were originally for. Jeffboat reached out to retired steamboat engineers to consult since nobody at the shipyard had a clue. Not sure if the boilers were with the plans or not. MQ built and launched but before river trials a few of my mentors who had worked on stern wheelers stated the wheels were set too low. During river trials at speed the wheels were throwing rooster tails so high water was coming back on the upper deck. The wheel buckets were trimmed and problem solved. Old timer expertise and experience is priceless.
A shame the MQ was scraped.
 
@bargeahead My great uncle who died at 90 two years ago loved to drive over to the Mississippi and go for cruises on the riverboats. I was able to see them once, maybe twice, made a special trip to see them go through the locks.

It's a shame that modern america doesn't seem to have time for the pastimes of old.
 
Of course it has been done:

http://otherpower.com/steamengine.html
https://www.homepower.com/articles/home-efficiency/electricity/ask-experts-steam-electricity
http://www.buckville.com/?q=about
https://www.homepower.com/articles/...=750&height=600&iframe=true&template=colorbox

You gotta realize just HOW MUCH wood is needed! (for little output)

"Oh, I'm surrounded by trees"

Yeah............. but it's not cut into pieces that fit in your boiler!

It's really very energy inefficient.
You'd be better off making wood gas and running a gas engine off of it.
 
buildit said:
Oddly many large building all over the USA are heated by steam
Click to expand...

Large scale steam, done right - - is very efficient.

No one is able to make steam "very" efficient on a scale smaller then a small town. Some factories do, but it's to cater to their processes.

Of course, power plants almost always use steam, but these are highly engineered places.
 
LincTex said:
Large scale steam, done right - - is very efficient.

No one is able to make steam "very" efficient on a scale smaller then a small town. Some factories do, but it's to cater to their processes.

Of course, power plants almost always use steam, but these are highly engineered places.
Click to expand...
Yes, all "big" power plants use steam because heating water to turn a turbine is still the cheapest way to convert fuel to electricity. (Edit : I should have said all big plants where heat is used. Obviously hydro electric is a big turbine producing lots of electric with no heat and solar isn't using heat but the charge of a photon.) The compression of water and it's physical properties (enthalpy) make this possible. ;-)
 
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Meerkat said:
Steam boats comes to mind as do trains.
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But both have basically been replaced by diesel engines and electric. I mean you could consider making a steam driven electric generator which burns wood for fuel but the conversion factor of wood energy to electric is low. Where that sort of setup would be great is where you already had a hot wood fired furnace that was used for cooking or maybe glass making that excess heat could be used to produce electric.
 
Coal made steam affordable but now coal is harder to get. Solar can make steam more cost efficient but it is a big initial cost. With my forge I can cast aluminum, copper and brass and forge and weld steel. Anything I can make using my power tools I can also make by hand. I like having my lathe, mill, drill press and grinder but they are not necessary.
 
SheepDog said:
Coal made steam affordable but now coal is harder to get. Solar can make steam more cost efficient but it is a big initial cost. With my forge I can cast aluminum, copper and brass and forge and weld steel. Anything I can make using my power tools I can also make by hand. I like having my lathe, mill, drill press and grinder but they are not necessary.
Click to expand...
I wish I had better hand manufacturing skills. I think it's because I'm not very good at art that I suffer so many failures. For me describing and developing a hypothesis for a process is easier than implementation.
 
Buildit,
I'm afraid that you are not alone in your ability to develop the concept and having more difficulty building it. My difficulty is with wood. I can design fine furniture but I have less patience with wood and less understanding of it so I end up with more sawdust than finished product. The sawdust is good for the garden so it doesn't get wasted. I have made the benches for my shop and they are strong and well made but it is easily identifiable as shop equipment and not fine furniture. Here is an example:

lathe bench small.jpg This is before the drawers were installed but it shows the structure that was designed to hold my small lathe.
 
SheepDog said:
Buildit,
I'm afraid that you are not alone in your ability to develop the concept and having more difficulty building it. My difficulty is with wood. I can design fine furniture but I have less patience with wood and less understanding of it so I end up with more sawdust than finished product. The sawdust is good for the garden so it doesn't get wasted. I have made the benches for my shop and they are strong and well made but it is easily identifiable as shop equipment and not fine furniture. Here is an example:

View attachment 1963 This is before the drawers were installed but it shows the structure that was designed to hold my small lathe.
Click to expand...
I thought making saw dust was just part of the process. LOL
boards.jpg
Making furniture is beyond my skills. A dog water bowl table isn't furniture. LOL
dog food bowl riser.jpg
But like my welding or sewing I can make things stick together into useful designs if I really try.
pistol target side.jpg
 
Back to steam, anyone live in a house or apartment that had steam heat? Remember how noisy it could be and hard it was to control the temperature?
 
 
Why?? Ask Mr. Preston Tucker!!!!
 
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