Steven Edholm/Skillcult-Modern Day Johnny Appleseed

[elkhound]

The man is doing some amazing things with apples.To me he has basically picked up where Albert Etter stopped when he died in 1950.Its interesting nobody much used Etters genetics till lately,a few have but not like skillcult has.

The interesting thing is skillcults first seeds planted back about 10 or more years ago.He was told by many that wont work,you get only little knotty apples etc.Well he only planted like a dozen seeds and to everyone surprise the very first apple to fruit was amazing.To thumb his nose at industry,nay sayers and more he gave that apple the name BITE ME!Since then he has came up with tons of other apples and will continue to as time goes on and all the new seedling he has produced start fruiting.

You can see his various apples here in one spot now.

https://skillcult.com/applebreeding

 

[elkhound]

Who Albert Etter was below...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Etter

 

[sonya123]

I wished I knew what type of apples we have
( the trees were here, some are good some not so much, none look like types you get in a store, but one tree tastes really good)

 

[elkhound]

A good talk from 2015

 

[elkhound]

I wished I knew what type of apples we have
( the trees were here, some are good some not so much, none look like types you get in a store, but one tree tastes really good)

Graft the ones you like and make more.

 

[sonya123]

Graft the ones you like and make more.

we have tried planting new trees but failed every time. I have given up on messing with fruit trees
the weather gets them , or the goats ate them or they just died
I am thinking you need a backhoe to dig a giant hole and fill it with good soil, then put a 6 ft fence around it to grow a new fruit tree....

 

[elkhound]

Now that i have produced scion wood in decent amount on my own i can do more grafting at little cost. I have 6 scion of Appleloosa apple to graft. I can easily get 12 trees/limbs from these by cutting in half.I will probably do some grafting on older trees as well as grafting onto rootstock to get entire tree of these.These scion this year are $8 each but in past years they were much higher in cost.In 2022 these Appleloosa brought over $100 each at auction.

For me buying root stock at $4 each and grafting makes it so much more affordable to expand and learn the skill of grafting and tree care and more.I still have a very very long way to go.


https://skillcult.com/appleoosa


Appleloosa apple below

 

[backlash]

A few years ago one of the local fruit tree growers sent bills to some of the large fruit growers for all the new trees the growers had grafted from the original trees.
Seems like the tree growers had a patent on those specific variety trees.
Some of the bills were in the hundreds of thousand dollars.
I don't remember how it all worked out but I suspect there was an out of court settlement.
There is no way they would ever go after a small home grower for something like that.

 

[elkhound]

Genetics...theres a certain corporation to remain nameless in this thread that started all this genetics patent crap and the ball is rolling now.

Seed companys now say by buying a pack of seed its a 'thing' you wont use the seed to make more or breed with.

I seen a guy from big place changing cultivar of peaches in a orchard that was 1000's of trees.You could buy young trees from them but he mentioned on tag that even has a homeowner you were not allowed to graft and get more trees even for your own use. I busted out laughing.

I know a guy was just showing making a few trees for himself on youtube.He just happened to be using a 'name' thats patented and widely known.Dont you know they contacted youtube and told them he could propagate trees for himself but could not use the name at all..even in video.After that being forced to remove grafting video my friend left youtube and no longer showing anything he does.

All this is one reason the Open Seed Source Initiative thing has taken off so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Seed_Initiative

I am breeding up a sugary enhanced sweet corn and i dont know the route..if i even do..to release it to the public.Its an all white corn and an heirloom.This year wil be first time getting to plant a very large crop of it to see how it does and get seed from a large amount of ears.Its said you typically want to get/use at least 200 ears in collecting seed.

 

[elkhound]

Well i spent saturday night and sunday night watching a couple hours of scion auction going on...life in the fast lane i tell ya...eating apples watching apple scion wood auctioned...roflmao...i feel like a sailor on a weekend drunk..i even bid some myself !

well thats over till next year...look forward to this every year i tell ya.

 

[montanabill]

When I was young I lived in the middle of apple orchards. Multiple varietes of apples on smaller farms. started with macintosh in late summer and went thru to arkansas black that almost needed to be snowed on to get them to ripen. Orchardists had cabins for a few workers that would show up and work picking the whole crop as each variety ripened . The harvest was spread out so they didnt need a large crew all at once.
I still remember those delicious tree ripened golden delicious and the apple juice squeezed fresh from a good tangy macintosh.
now at 4k ft elevation in montana we have found a variety of apple that tastes good and survives, we have our grand little orchard of seven trees that I have high hopes of them all surviving another winter.

 

[Patchouli]

Dang, @elkhound really appreciate all of your research and information.
But now on seed packets they’re stating you can’t use their seeds for further development?
Does that mean you could cross develop new varieties? To me it does because it’s not the original seed.

 

[elkhound]

Dang, @elkhound really appreciate all of your research and information.
But now on seed packets they’re stating you can’t use their seeds for further development?
Does that mean you could cross develop new varieties? To me it does because it’s not the original seed.

No most seed sales now say theres an implied contract thing..i dont know exact term...saying you can use there seeds other than plant and harvest.Its main reason last several years many smaller seed companys have grown much larger.

You have to do a search...i will in a bit..i have to think about term and such to find articles again about this.

 

[Patchouli]

No most seed sales now say theres an implied contract thing..i dont know exact term...saying you can use there seeds other than plant and harvest.Its main reason last several years many smaller seed companys have grown much larger.

You have to do a search...i will in a bit..i have to think about term and such to find articles again about this.

No worries, brother, I can research it myself if I need the information.
Back to apples! I haven’t watched your videos yet.

 

[elkhound]

No worries, brother, I can research it myself if I need the information.
Back to apples! I haven’t watched your videos yet.

I want to keep this about apples.Also i promised @Swing i would not go down rabbit hole i use to and use a certain corps name like in past on here like i did on other forum.That being said..heres a link to read and if you want to talk about it more do so via pm to me.Swing will bonk me on the head if i type a certain name on here for sure...lol

from 2016

https://ensia.com/features/open-source-seeds/

Martin Longseth talked about a few things since he was slightly involved in industry.But theres plant breeding secrets greater than govt secrets.Theres hybrids out there no one knows the parents to and cant get any information on them.

Steven mentioned this in apples.Back in the day when apple was patented other universities and breeders just renamed the apple to use its genetics.He mentioned some apples known by 2 different names or numbers but they were the same apple.

Right now theres some apples that were developed and agreement is they cant be grown outside washington state for 10 years.Farmers paid money to university to develop it.Theres several right now but one is cosmic crisp.

 

[Canon29]

Actually, I did a post about him on a diff forum recently. It was about axmanship. This guy is a gem- he outputs good, thoughful content on several subjects. One should also check out his videos on hide tanning and ax work imo.

 

[elkhound]

Actually, I did a post about him on a diff forum recently. It was about axmanship. This guy is a gem- he outputs good, thoughful content on several subjects. One should also check out his videos on hide tanning and ax work imo.

The guy is a homesteading brainiac for sure ! I made a thread over yander about his research into apple butter and all the historic documentation he searched out.It was amazing the video and hands on testing he done over a i think 3 year period showing what apple butter was back in the day. It was a stiff product like butter..not this apple sauce crap of today. It was kept in attic and was just poured into vessels and covered with paper and the kicker was it started with juice..not a bunch of crushed and boiled apples.It was a sugar products really...anyhow..it was epic knowledge with hands on testing. Sadly he said there was so little views of video he had earned like $2 for all that effort and he couldnt continue on trying to show what results were over more years of testing.Historical records showed often the stuff was only made every 7 years.

 

[Caribou]

I would like to enlarge my orchard. I’m told that to get a tree to survive it needs to be grafted to crabapple rootstock. Is there a place to buy these exotic cultivars already grafted to crabapple rootstock?

 

[elkhound]

I would like to enlarge my orchard. I’m told that to get a tree to survive it needs to be grafted to crabapple rootstock. Is there a place to buy these exotic cultivars already grafted to crabapple rootstock?

Not that i know of. These are so few its going to be awhile before available in any quantity.Its why scion woods cost so much as theres only a small bit each year.Steven is working on getting a place bought to expand everything from new types to offering grafted trees...or its part of idea to offer grafted trees.

I just now got to point of producing some of these scion for myself.Now i can do more practicing and it not hurt so much if a graft fails...i couldnt imagine giving $100 for a graft and it fail.

Just producing regular cultivar scion has helped and will help.My plan i started doing in 2020 was doing a skillcult type frankentree to get varieties on same tree.But my idea was to just do it so i would have those varities going forward to graft on my own.I can buy rootstock for $4 each and graft my own scion and get a fruit tree..hopefully...instead of paying $40-60 each now. I guess i am entering phase 2 of my plan as i not grafted on rootstock and grew them out and dug up and replanted where i want the tree at.Not sure of all varieties i have now but guessing its 20. I have 2 scion of a rare,hard to get and super expensive apple and have high hopes of grafting success with them..well all i graft.

I plan on buying 2 more trees this year of types i dont have.

I ordered 20 rootstocks from fedco to graft on and that was $80 plus shipping.If they all take i will really expand my apple trees for sure.

 

[Bacpacker]

Grafting is something I'd love to get into. Certainly another retirement project

 

[elkhound]

I would like to enlarge my orchard. I’m told that to get a tree to survive it needs to be grafted to crabapple rootstock. Is there a place to buy these exotic cultivars already grafted to crabapple rootstock?

I have been thinking about you this afternoon...i want to start off by saying..i know nothing about orchard/fruit trees and grafting.

Sadly its about to late to order and get things as they are planned ahead in fall and winter and various companys shut down ordering..at least fedco does on certain items.There still stuff available from various corps.

I have dealt with Cummins nursery several times over the years going back plus 10 years. Dr. Jim Cummins ran the Geneva Experimental station doing work on fruit trees and more.He retired long ago and had a nursery and his family has taken over it now.He is a super nice fellow.

THey might have fruit trees still to order not checked that are red fleshed but not skilcult ones.Some of Albert Etter trees are available from various places like pink pearl.Heres a link to read up on type of rootstock...much of rootstock is from Russia..i think..but dont know..many of them would work in your area.Other corps have other types as well.

Rootstock.

https://www.cumminsnursery.com//buy-trees/index.php?type=rootstock&year=

Fedco..i ordered scion and garden seed from them a few times.They seem solid so far.You can read up on types of root stocks they grow and more.Last year late in season they had extra stock available and had a flash sale type thing on for a week or so to get them out of inventory.Dont know if they will this year...theres still a few things left.

https://www.fedcoseeds.com/trees/

Now if i was you..i would trying grafting any scion i could get on my existing trees to get practice.Then i get on skillcults mailing list to stay abreast of yearly sales.Theres actually a few items left he sales but not sure if theres any red fleshed type available now as often skillcults stuff sales out in days.His scion starts at $4 and goes up you have to put in cart to see price.At least this is a place to get scion this late in year and practice on your trees.


https://skillcult.com/store/apple-scion-wood

Next thing i would do is research root stock for your area...!!

 

[elkhound]

@Caribou i just looked at index..he still has cherry crush and cherub available right now.Those are red fleshed that he created.

 

[elkhound]

read section titled apple tree varieties..it talks root stock.Interesting it talks about the yellow transparent.thats the #1 bearing apple tree on old original homesteads in my area.

https://www.uaf.edu/ces/publications/database/gardening/growing-tree-fruits.php