Storing Game Meat "All Winter" Cache or Meat Pole Discussion

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Sourdough

"Eleutheromaniac"
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Mar 17, 2018
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In a cabin, on a mountain, in "Wilderness" Alaska.
Storing Game Meat "All Winter" Cache or Meat Pole Discussion

If this get any traction, I'll post more information. But for now I have a fair amount of heavy logging chain, and considering running it from tree to tree to serve as a meat pole. The short coming of a wood meat pole is that squirrels and marten and ermine, wolverine can traverse the pole.

The goal is winter storage of meat in the north country, secured from birds and mice and other small meat-eaters. The meat would most likely be quarters of moose. This would be for emergency all winter and/or temporary storage while processing. And only used October through March.

Yes........there are dozen of way to preserve meat. But this assumes my cabin in the wilderness burned to the ground on New Years Eve, and I moved into a tent. Or pretend an advance survey party was trapped between two rivers late November in the North Country. The goal is preserving and protecting meat in the arctic winter, no cabin. Maybe at the end of your 26 mile (each leg) trapline.
 
I have not fully decided on the height. With my Brown Bears, I figure they could reach nine to ten foot, and try to swat a chunk of meat. With their mouth would likely only reach to seven or eight foot to bite and pull meat down.

Then you have to figure in the front quarter is longer then the hind quarter, so figure four foot plus the rope would be four to eight inches from pole to the top of the meat. So to be fairly safe I would want the lowest part of the pole fifteen foot above ground.

I have considered the snow, but if they are standing on their hind feet swatting, then a 800 to 1,600 pound Alaska Coastal Brown Bear would be compressing the snow to an inch or two. When I take my snowshoes off I simply post'hole clear to the ground. So I am not concerned with the snow being a factor. Plus I could shovel the snow right under the meat.

I can later move some dirt and lower the ground if a problem develops, but I'll likely mount the meat pole sixteen foot high.

I don't think that the "Classic" Cache was very often used for meat. If they did not have a meat pole, my guess is they hung meat off the outside of the cache. Actually simply throwing the meat quarters up on the cabin roof was general practice, and cover with branches to keep the birds off. Thing is that meat was generally so plentiful, that it was not precious.

They used the classic cache for precious things that could not be replaced for eight or ten months if lost. Actually the "Real" caches served as emergency shelter and clothing and sleeping bag storage. If the cabin burned down (fairly common) they would move into the cache for survival. There they would need spare everything to stay alive. I doubt they would put meat in with spare boots, clothes, pots and pans, etc.
 
what about a pole that can raise and lower by hand winch like used on a boat. cable line so it be more resistant to bears chewing through it. if i was going to protect it best i could from meat pole type thing i would make me up some canvas covers and meat hooks special. longer hooks to give a bit of room if needed and a canvas bag with a hole in center sliding down over hook to cover entire quarter. you could make them simple as can be or more complex. you could make grommets in bottom to rough lace it up even or make it like a duffel bag closes to keep all birds out for sure. its not perfect but might slow down critters. no matter what you do i think a wooden secure box to store the fat in is a must to protect from all critters.the highest calories parts anyway.

the guide from alaska(roland welker) that won alone season 7 this year built a heck of on ground cache for muskox he killed. he said he wasnt hanging stuff in air just to be stolen by wolverine etc.he was limited in available items to build too so take that comment into consideration as well.
 
How about just storing the meat in a real heavy-duty steel storage container placed on the ground? It would sure be easier to load and unload and you wouldn't have to worry about bears, birds, or rodents getting into it. Or is you place only accessible by boat or plane?

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Interesting thread. I purchased an old run down homestead just over 6 years ago. The cache is just over 10 feet tall and the meat pole had fallen over but it was perhaps 15 feet tall. We have interior brownies and black bears which don't grow as big at where Sourdough lives. I've rebuilt the cache support legs as it was near collapse. Like Sourdough indicated, the cache was filled with sleeping rolls, clothes, and some pots/pans etc. to make due in an emergency, and that's how I am using it. I haven't replaced the meat pole, so I am following this thread.

In my area, the wolverines, coyotes, and wolves are an issue during the winter, so I am thinking the approximate 15 foot meat pole was sufficient. From the game readily available in my area, I imagine moose, sheep and caribou were commonly hung there. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it!
 
I can see how a pole would stop a bear, but bears hibernate in winter. What about birds? They crap and peck wherever the choose.
Most all of my bears are hibernating by late November or early December, a few are not. A very few are out all winter, or are in and out during the winter. They start showing up in the yard March 10-20'th so they are only a non-issue about three and a half months.

As for birds.......I take clean plastic 55 gallon drums, cut them in half drill a 1/2" hole, and run the rope from the game bag of meat up through the hole, then throw the rope over the pole and hoist it up. Keeps nearly all the rain and snow off, keeps the birds, ermine, martin, squirrels, wolverines, mice from accessing from the top.
 
How about just storing the meat in a real heavy-duty steel storage container placed on the ground? It would sure be easier to load and unload and you wouldn't have to worry about bears, birds, or rodents getting into it. Or is you place only accessible by boat or plane?

View attachment 51387

I have four 20' connex containers, plus one 24' refrigeration boxcar from the Alaska Rail Road. Those are all an option. Air circulation would be restricted, which might accelerate mold, but that can be cut off. I currently have four freezers. So this is (for now) a standby option, and a boots in the field learning session. As a retired Alaska Big Game Hunting Guide, I have abundant experience with meat poles, but that is typically short term storage, 10 to 14 days. Then the meat goes out with the hunters, and new hunters are brought in to camp.

This project is to learn what issues.......if a meat pole was employed for a full winter. There are likely "unknown-unknowns".
 
make me up some canvas covers and meat

The meat would need air circulation, or it would go sour. This project would work better up north where it is far below freezing most of the time, where I am is fairly mild winters. It can be radically different from winter to winter, and 50 years ago we had real cold and snowy winters here, but the last 20'ish years it has been mild winters.
 
In my part of the world, the winters are not as cold as they used to be. Bears are not hibernating as they should and are a year-'round hazard. I am forced to store all of my meats in low-to-no-odor ways: canning, freezing, dehydrating.

I want a concrete smokehouse! With steel doors! My neighbor in the valley has a concrete storeroom where he houses animal feed. Bears ripped the solidly made wooden doors off, twice!

If a strong man with a crowbar can get something open, so can a bear.
 
i would have thought being in alaska in winter it would be cold enough to hang all winter. i guess not like you said in these changing temps.

i only dealt with brown bear in spring to fall. black bear year round...when we use to be able to bait here and others places i lived you could bait bears stop eating towards end of nov like sourdough said. i have seen them in dec tip a bait barrel filled with sweets and a beef heart. they took one bite into beef heart and dropped it not removing any of it. prego sow bears during this time go up to give birth. bears have never truly hibernated in eastern half of u.s. up north yes..farther south no. but even clear to gulf in winter they eat very little. i seen a bear out in deep snow..to the truck bumper... out walking around and it was -10f here in my mtns.the coldest temps i seen here was -15f without windchill.

if its below 32f i see no problem. the problem is rain here and snow fall to spring and like you fluctuating temps. the cure for this is to break it into muscle groups and cure it or cut and dry it.

problem with those big quarters is you need to break them apart or use a syringe type injector to get cure around the bone area. you can use a butchers ham bone gouge and take out leg bone leaving it hollow and putting cure in that way. thats how many of the boneless cured hams are made. but anyhow...you cant just do this with salt. salt is only drying out the meat. morton cure has nitrites/nitrates in it that causes a chemical reaction that prevents bacterial growth on and in meat.its what cause cured items to get that red look to it.

i have cured in refrigerator with great results. temps need to be stable. had a friend had a bunch of meat to cure and temps dropped real low and froze everything. when its frozen it cant cure. then temps started doing the up and down and they just had to go on after a bit and slice everything and wrap and put in freezer.theres dry cure and liquid cure too. i had deer hams done in vat by a local it was soaked 2 weeks then pulled and smoked. once its cured it dont matter the temps. it will keep.

you can dive deeper into this with certain type bacteria you can order for hanging sausages etc. etc. but thats over my pay grade.

if in a survival situation i would render all the fat i could down and get it into metal cans with twist on metal lids if possible to keep it safe and once its rendered its stable for a long time.

like grizzgal i want a strong smokehouse. my stuff has electric around it. just to many bear most of year getting into stuff.it will stop them dead in their tracks if properly set up.

https://www.mortonsalt.com/home-product/morton-tender-quick/
 
like grizzgal i want a strong smokehouse.

How big would you want the smokehouse.......??? When I was very young we lived on and worked a old dairy farm in south central Pennsylvania. There was a very large smokehouse just outside the front entrance to the house. I think in the 1800's it also served as the outside kitchen. Thing was bigger then some cabins I have lived in.

We used it for a woodshed, never used it for smoking anything. Was handy being just outside the front door. Actually I just remembered there is a photo of us children along one wall, I'll bet I can find that photo and guestimate the size of the building.
 
i would have thought being in alaska in winter it would be cold enough to hang all winter. i guess not like you said in these changing temps.
Alaska is about 20% of America's land mass. It is over twice the size of Texas. We have shores on the Arctic Ocean, Behring Sea, and the Pacific Ocean. Weather along the Pacific coast is much warmer than the rest as the Pacific exerts a significant warming influence. Not common but I've caught tuna in Alaskan waters during an El Nino.

The tundra, the mountains, the rain forests, and many other climate and terrain features here beggar the imagination. The weather in Alaska is not uniform, it can be 60℉ in one city and -60℉ in another, at the same time.
 
yep i get how big it is.i lived in southeast in 90's but like sourdough said weather is changing.the warmest day i seen was 70f. like everything theres multiple answers to problems just depends on each individuals drive,desire and abilities to do the 'things ' done.

i think if i was remote and weather was going to be up and down temps.i would make sure i had the morton tender quick or equal product and i would turn to the old ways of drying the meat. first i would render all the fat down and get it in containers. then i would get my several 5 gallon buckets cleaned up and ready and get one bucket full of brine soultion mixed and ready to go then i would start in on slicing a quarter into strips and putting in a bucket ,as soon as i got a decent amount meat in it i would pour a bit of brine in to get it going and continue on. after soaking a few hours i then would get to hanging it to dry. as i done this i also would look at various cuts and anything nicer i would try and cure it whole in a curing box and hope it stayed cool enough to get it cured. you will want a thermometer on hand to monitor temps as you do this if its warming up like sourdough is talking about in above posts.save all bones to extract the marrow from and use.this is super important. eating a moose or any meat without fat only takes weight off of you.this has been witnessed and documented now on alone show. jordan jonas on season 6 who has vast experience in far north with living with Evenki tribe in siberia admitted the hares he was catching and eating was taking weight off faster than not eating so he pulled his rabbit snares.which brings us to whole nother portion of this very subject thats deep..real deep in fact. starving while having food on hand. make sure to have some food caches on hand to go with the moose,ox,caribou,deer etc. or you will be in trouble fast.
 
a 10 x 10 would be more than enough.the picture above on stone house it has at least 2 full size hogs being smoked in it.it has room for way more.

i think terms used might be conflicting too and often those who set up facilities.the actual smoking is not very long and needs limited space.in fact my opinion more limited the better to concentrate the smoke.i like the options of little smokehouse that look to be like outhouses in size range of 4x4 or thereabout. then after product is done have a storehouse for finished product safe from everything.especially mice and rats etc. is a better solution.

this subject is hard to talk about as sourdough asked about being in remote location living in a tent but we are talking about doing things at our homes or base of operation. he has a refeer box and if that was mine i wouldnt consider anything else if dealing with moose.plenty of room in there till i got it processed into good stable either through canning ,curing etc.i keep an old fridge in my well house i can put deer in if need be if its hot/warm. a deer size critter breaks down to roughly 1/3rd its gross body weight as a broad brush general rule. so 150# animal has 50# more than enough room in a fridge.

side note. theres old writing from colonial virgina and they didnt eat or have much pork.they cured lamb hams. both there and in kentucky theres documentation of that. anything can be cured.if you want something interesting to read get a vintage morton salt curing book.the oldest is actually a butchering book as well.its full of info and tid bits.
 
heres one of the best places to look at cured items. not all of this is for longterm storage many needs refrigeration. be sure to read header of each section.theres recipes from all over the world for regional items. sourdough the dried cured section and salt and brined section probably will be of most interest to you.

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm#DRY
 
heres an example i was talking about.they are calling this a smokehouse.its not its a storehouse for finished goods. notice its painted white.theres no smoking going on inside here. its for hanging finished products or products that are finishing up drying or curing. before long those hams should be or probably will be wrapped and bagged and tagged for long term hanging.you can see a bit of mold on bottom part they may not wrap theres or bag for hanging.

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