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Tamiflu, reviews

Discussion in 'Product reviews' started by phideaux, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. Feb 6, 2018 #1

    phideaux

    phideaux

    phideaux

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    I've heard that Tamiflu is a Godsend, cure all, for the flu, for many,

    I've also heard that it's just another money making scheme, and is totally useless.:dunno:

    I have never tried it, and would like to get some feedback /experiences from some folks here .



    Jim
     
  2. Feb 6, 2018 #2

    Meerkat

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    It made my friend sick she said never again. But was it that don't know. :dunno:
     
  3. Feb 6, 2018 #3

    Peanut

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    Don’t get me started about this money-making medicine… I read a report on the CDC website several years ago that put the number at about 30%. It only helps about 30% of the people who take it. 60% of the population… not so much.

    Tamiflu is made from Shiskimic Acid. In china it was harvested from a plant called the “Star Anise” in the early days. Sort of funny, I saw on a business channel years ago… There was a severe drought in china. The Chinese company bought several thousand acres of sweet gum forest in Louisiana so they could keep manufacturing Tamiflu from sweetgum.

    These days shiskimic acid is produced in laboratories by bacteria.

    Back to sweet gum…

    The government has known about this for years... NIH

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4441155/

    So has the herbal medicine world.

    A plug for my friend Dana Tate Baily, doesn't live very far from me... She tells us how to make tincture from sweet gum balls.

    https://southernherbalist.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/sweetgumtree/

    Even the Washington post knows…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/metro/urban-jungle/pages/120131.html

    You can also make “Tamiflu tea” from sweetgum limbs. Cut sweetgum limbs about 6 inches long, finger size in diameter, a double hand full. Boil them in a gallon and a half of water for about 20 minutes. Afterwards strain out the plant material and you have Tamiflu tea. Add a little honey and have a cup. Shiskimic acid is also in the bark of sweetgum (Liquidambar styraciflua).
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  4. Feb 6, 2018 #4

    Meerkat

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  5. Feb 6, 2018 #5

    phideaux

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    OK, I'm thinking ...
    30% chance it may help...
    Hey , that's better than no chance at all.

    Or,

    Will it make me sick...er?

    I got Sweet Gum trees all over the farm,
    Hate them...
    Those Sweet Gum balls are hard on lawnmower blades.

    Shikimic Acid ...Huh?


    Jim
     
  6. Feb 6, 2018 #6

    Peanut

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    If it helps you by all means take it. As with all chemicals, whether man made or natural a tiny percent of the population with have a reaction. That aside Tamiflu isn’t going to help most people but it’s not going to make their flu worse.

    If I got the flu there are at least a dozen plants I would turn to before I would consider sweetgum or tamiflu.

    I haven’t had the flu or a cold in a decade, at least not like other people. I got the flu this year on new year’s eve. It lasted about 3 hours. That is because of poke sallet (Phytolacca americana). I make a medicine from the root. It’s a wonderful anti-inflammatory I take for arthritis. Poke also contains a protein that is a potent antiviral. Poke is a toxic plant, some people can’t take it at all. Some, like me, can take it 2 or 3 months then have to stop for a couple of weeks. A few people can take it year-round, it doesn’t bother them at all.

    This year the flu actually caused me to spike a fever for a couple of hours (long time since that happened) Then it tried to settle in my sinuses, horrible headache. I then used another plant, monarda fistulosa (bee balm). I wiped a few drops of monarda tincture on my cheek bones then went to bed. I was fine the next morning, no more flu. Nature is full of powerful antivirals and antibiotics.
     
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  7. Feb 6, 2018 #7

    goshengirl

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    Had the flu last spring - never felt so sick. Was given Tamiflu, and it did absolutely nothing. I can't say it made my flu symptoms worse - I'd already hit the "worse" threshold. But it really burned me to pay $120 for something that was completely useless.

    @Peanut, that's amazing information - thank you!
     
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  8. Feb 6, 2018 #8

    Sentry18

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    Tamiflu does not cure the flu. It prevents the flu from leaving an infected cell and infecting the next cell over while reducing the chances of it leaving you and infecting the next person over. It can also treat the symptoms of the flu but only if started within 48 hours of the onset of symptoms. If you take it quickly, within those 48 hours, it works very well. Otherwise you would never really know how much it did or didn't do for you.

    When my officers are exposed to the flu, which happens quite a bit during flu season, the Doc gives them Tamiflu right away. The second they experience any symptoms they start taking it. It has proven to be effective at reducing the impact and duration of the flu.
     
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  9. Feb 6, 2018 #9

    Fort

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    I took Tamiflu and few weeks ago and it was a miracle drug for me. I went from barely functioning while my friends watched my son to back to watching my son myself in a little over a day. My son was also put on Tamiflu as a preventative and that worked as planned.
     
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  10. Feb 6, 2018 #10

    Meerkat

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    Now Annies secret is out and why she had a mess of Poke. I have eaten Poke Salad [ we changed the name ] lots of times. You have to pre cook that stuff a couple times before you cook it to serve. I had some growing here till we cleared some land. The stuff was growing right in the middle of downtown Atlanta too when I lived there.
    Ladies if your married don't watch this if you have a bad heart.He never looked better.
     
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  11. Feb 6, 2018 #11

    Peanut

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    This afternoon I found a very startling report on tamiflu at the National Institute of Health website (NIH) For starters the title of the report is an eye opener. The report was written in 2015.

    "The Tamiflu fiasco and lessons learnt"


    What I found upsetting was the adverse side effects of tamiflu had been purposely concealed, some of them are very serious. The report is a long read so get a cup of coffee first.

    Adverse effect profile-conveniently concealed

    There had been no mention of adverse effects associated with the use of this drug in the published trials. Post-marketing surveillance had uncovered adverse effects like raised liver enzymes, hepatitis, neuropsychiatric events, cardiac arrhythmia, skin hypersensitivity reactions including toxic epidermal necrolysis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome and erythema multiforme, metabolic side effects and renal events.[24] In some cases, increased QTc prolongation was seen in ECG in the treatment group compared with placebo during on-treatment periods. The most important serious adverse events which raised concerns were neuropsychiatric events such as depressed mood, behavior disturbance, panic attack, suicidal ideation, delusion, delirium, convulsion, and encephalitis. These were reported more frequently in children than in adults and generally occurred within 48 h of drug intake.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4375804/
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  12. Feb 6, 2018 #12

    phideaux

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    I do believe , I'll pass on the Tamiflu.

    :rolleyes:

    Jim
     
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  13. Feb 6, 2018 #13

    Drfacefixer

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    Sentry is on the money. It must be taken either as a prophylactic when exposure is known or with in the first 24-48hrs to be considered effective. It is a nueramidase inhibitor and stops the virus from further replication. Since virus growth is exponential, after 48 hours, your body is swimming in virus particles and you are not going to really see the benefits. There is a threshold of being miserable at a certain viral load. You are going to feel like crap at 1 billion viruses, you are probably going to feel the same at 10 billion viruses. But if starting that drug early stops the virus at 1 million replications, it’s much easier for your immune system to compensate and clean up the mess. Some people may have a subclinical infection and feel fine, others may pass it off as being under the weather. The most common findings of studies show that it shortens the duration of severe flu about 2-3 days. Some people think it’s a God send, others think it a failure is it’s not 100% going make symptoms go away ASAP.
     
  14. Feb 7, 2018 #14

    Drfacefixer

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    This article although heavily slanted due to the researches ties, does a good job summarizing the Japanese scare. In 2008, three pediatric and teen suicides ( two falls, one walked into traffic) were highly publicized as being linked to tamiflu. We heavily began restricting it in our pediatric population after hearing this. This was everywhere along with the swine flu scare. But let’s remember, this author is in India and writing for an Indian audience.

    Now let’s look back on some other issues seen about that time. Japanese horror was at its peek with American releases of Ju-on ( the grudge), Ringu... movies like tetsuo, marebito, were raking in the box office. We also got American remakes of more Japanese horror like shutter. What do all these movies have in common - suicide and self mutilation. Japanese thrive on it. They also have one of the highest teen suicide rates in the world. We failed to see those situations in the US. Emory ( I have a inpatient pediatrician friend there) and many other hospitals routinely start pedo patients on tamiflu if they are sick enough to be admitted. You bet every hospital is doing studies to see if the cost is worth the benefits of a shortened stay. They wouldn’t be doing it otherwise. American hospitals don’t make money caring for the sick. They make money on elective lucrative procedures that improve quality of life such as hip, knee, cardiac valve replacements, cardiac stents ect..

    The tamiflu side neurological side effects seem to be part of internet lore. No doubt some people did have adverse effects- all medications have them. But we’ve drastically increased use of this medication and have seen and heard less about severe side effects that ever before.

    Also, pharmacognosy is an awesome branch of pharm research but don’t mistake it as anything other than what it is. It is the study of deriving beneficial active compounds from plants and identifying what their mechanism of action is. Herbs and drugs can coincide. Pharmacognosy knows there are herbal benefits, but it wants to purify it, make it more effective and unlock the biochemical interactions on a cellular level.

    Take a look at the synthesis below. Starting point is your Shikimic acid, ten step later with minimal conversion yield is Oseltamivir phosphate.

    http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/tamiflu/big_synthesis.htm

    If you understand even first semester organic chemistry, you’ll know these compounds are worlds apart. It’s akin to saying charred paper can be used as gunpower. All you need is to add gunpowder and the paper can be the wadding.

    That being said, because of fear in the media. I passed on it years ago when my child was prescribed it. I talked to my pediatrician friend then and he had never seen an adverse reaction. I talked to my friend 4 years later and he still hasn’t seen an adverse reaction and he’s ordered it for a few more thousand kids.
     
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  15. Feb 7, 2018 #15

    Grizzleyette___Adams

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    I think elderberry is nature’s safest and most satisfying answer to Tamiflu; it works in a similar way by preventing a cold or flu virus from attaching to our cells and multiplying. Like Tamiflu it works best if it is taken before the cold or flu virus has a chance to multiply, as in before you begin showing symptoms or at the start of symptoms, at the very latest.

    Although elderberry has been favored by herbalists as a cold and flu remedy for centuries, the first scientific proof was demonstrated in 1995 at the Hadassah Medical School of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Elderberry (Sambucus nigra) was shown to be effective against a wide range of influenza viruses including human, swine and avian strains. These studies led to the development of Sambucol, which is widely available (vitacost.com, swanson-vitamins.com, amazon.com, and many health food stores). Even if the stuff is taken "too late," studies show that Sambucol could reduce the severity of influenza by half. Of course it is best to ward off a viral invasion right from the beginning.

    Before I started using elderberry syrup during cold and flu season, I caught way too many colds and flus. (I worked in the respiratory department of a major hospital in New Orleans, so yeah.) So now, I take the stuff 3 times a day during cold and flu season, and it has been over a decade since I had a cold or flu. Two of my favorite elderberry syrup brands are: Sambucol and Nature's Answer Sambucus.

    As a bonus, elderberry is good for a host of things such as vision problems, sinus problems, boosts immunity, and lots more. Elderberry is so safe that it has been used as a food for thousands of years. Even so, I have read that when lab rats received mega-doses of elderberry extract, it sometimes caused abortions and birth defects. But then, I wouldn't imagine any pregnant woman would want to drink a few gallons of extract in a day.
     
  16. Feb 7, 2018 #16

    ReadyMom

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    :I agree: Good Info from you both. Thank you. These posts are key to how Tamiflu works, when taken properly. I think we have to keep in mind that like anything ... NOT *everything* works for *everybody*. Flu has a tendency to be so bad, that I think I will opt to take whatever measures are offered to get through it. And YES ... ELDERBERRY is VERY beneficial.
     
  17. Feb 7, 2018 #17

    MoBookworm1957

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    Didn't do anything for me,my son, or future daughter in law.
     
  18. Feb 7, 2018 #18

    Peanut

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    Thank you for posting this. I always forget about elderberry which is strange because I grow my own. Every year I make elder tincture from the blooms for friends and family. It will stop colds or the flu in it’s tracks.

    Elderberry_v1.jpg
     
  19. Feb 7, 2018 #19

    Grizzleyette___Adams

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    Over the years, I tried various brands of elderberry syrup and found that some did not work at all. Maybe it's their formula or processing method? The brands that I mentioned in my post have been 100% reliable for me and mine. I don't skimp on dosages either. As a preventative I take 1 tablespoon 3 times a day. If I know that I have been exposed, I ramp it up to 4 times a day. If I feel that my immunity is down because of stress or not enough sleep, etc. I may take it 5 times a day.

    I also make my own syrup but it stinks the house up like a thousand dirty gym socks. So I started making it on my covered porch, but it draws bears (which is not a bad thing as long as it is during hunting season). So, I buy elderberry syrup to supplement my own when I deplete my stash.
     
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  20. Feb 7, 2018 #20

    Peanut

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    I've heard of certain brands not working also. Funny, that's why I don't make syrup but use the blooms. :D The blooms are weaker so the dosage is a little higher. I have one friend who prefers a tea so I dehydrate some and vacuum seal it in quart jars.
     
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  21. Feb 7, 2018 #21

    goshengirl

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    I did not know that - thank you!
    I'm going to have to start keeping a notebook of Peanut information. :)
     
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  22. Feb 19, 2018 #22

    Terri9630

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    Me too. I need to learn how to make some of this stuff.
     
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  23. Feb 19, 2018 #23

    Terri9630

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    One of these?

    Screenshot_20180219-220006.jpg Screenshot_20180219-220052.jpg
     
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  24. Feb 20, 2018 #24

    Grizzleyette___Adams

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    Yes, both the Sambucol syrup and the Nature's Answer brand of Sambucus are the only two that I rely on anymore.

    Vitacost.com, Amazon.com and other places have been out for a while and are just now getting new stock. Yay! (3) 16 oz bottles coming my way!
     
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