The great battery thread

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BBQJoe

BBQJoe

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Let's have some serious battery discussion. Types, sizes, lifespan, new technologies etc.

My home of 20 some years has been off grid since day one.
I have relied on Trojan L-16's almost exclusively. I found they are usually good for appx five years, although there are claims of them lasting 10 years.

When they start to fail, I move them to applications that aren't so critical, such as running lights, or a car stereo in the shop. Once they just can't do that anymore, they get exchanged as cores.

I've never had a Trojan crap out. The last set of (4) 6 volt batteries cost me $1400.
I am preparing once again for a reboot.
I really should know more about batteries and what's out there, but I don't.

I've got about $3K I'm ready to put into a new bank, but I want something that lasts longer, and I need a deeper bank than 4 L-16's. 8 or 12 would be more like it.
I try not to use anything with a large draw on my batteries, and will opt for the generator when using anything with a motor, or anything that creates any form of heat.

If you had 3 grand to spend, what kind of batteries would YOU go for?
 
No personal experience but I really like the nickel iron batteries. You can buy them used and they'll never wear out- very easy to renew- or buy them new from Iron Edison.

I don't think I'd consider any other kind of battery unless I didn't think the NI batteries were within my budget.

Looking at the price differences the up front cost is a lot higher than your Trojans, but they are supposed to last forever.
 
skittles said:
No personal experience but I really like the nickel iron batteries. You can buy them used and they'll never wear out- very easy to renew- or buy them new from Iron Edison.

I don't think I'd consider any other kind of battery unless I didn't think the NI batteries were within my budget.

Looking at the price differences the up front cost is a lot higher than your Trojans, but they are supposed to last forever.
Click to expand...
I heard they require A LOT of maintenance.
 
We like the lithium Ion LiFePO4 batteries. We just bought two in May or June to replace our 24 lead acid ones and did not run our generator once until last week. They are expensive at $900. each and may have gone up since we got them. Plug and play, just pop the old batteries out and these in. No care. We bought them from Battle Born batteries in Reno, NV, so they are US made and their customer service is outstanding. These have the battery management system built in. We need to get at least two more because we have a lot of solar, 25 panels and a wind turbine for 3 killowatts. These batteries require no care at all. Take up less room too. Since we got these we had unlimited power until the dark days of winter hit us.
 
skittles said:
@katlupe That's good to hear that you're doing so well with the lithium iron battery. That's the other one that Iron Edison sells, I was wondering about that one as well.
Click to expand...

So what about the name lithium ion or lithium iron? Even on Battle Born's home page they call it lithium iron, then go to the listing and they call it lithium ion. Are they the same thing?
 
I know that Trojan batteries are very good and I see them in battery shops, so they are readily available. Another battery that is excellent for solar systems is the Rolls Surrette brand, they are expensive but do have some very high amp-hour batteries to offer. Then there is Interstate Battery and they have a number of very good high amp-hour batteries to offer, generally in the same price range as Trojan. Then there is my tight-wad wallet and I go to the best place I've found for affordable batteries and that's Costco, they offer just a couple of true deep cycle batteries that I have come across and they are for golf carts, they sell 8 volt and 6 volt batteries which are branded Johnson Control or Interstate. Because I use a total of 20 batteries I try to get them all with the same date stamp but since the store we went to only had around 10, we bought 10 one day and another 10 in a Costco in another city. What I did was to hook up two and two of the different dated batteries in each 24 volt battery bank series and tie them together in parallel, at 205 amp-hour per battery that ended up totaling 1025 amp-hours, so far there doesn't seem to be any imbalance in my battery bank that brings the charge down due to parasitic individual battery volt/amperage differences that can come about by different date/lot situations which can happen when batteries are connected in parallel.
 
I understand that lithium ion batteries cant charge below freezing temps. Is that the case?
 
katlupe said:
So what about the name lithium ion or lithium iron? Even on Battle Born's home page they call it lithium iron, then go to the listing and they call it lithium ion. Are they the same thing?
Click to expand...
As far as I know they are lithium ion, probably iron is a misspelling. Lithium ion batteries do have some quirks, they appear to be highly sensitive to charge voltage/amperage and as has been on the news do catch fire and sometimes blowup. Cell phones, hoverboards and even a Tesla car are some of the things I've heard about. Flooded lead-acid batteries have been around forever and even though they need upkeep and ventilation, they have a proven record. I've had lead-acid batteries blowup but if they are vented, serviced regularly and have the proper charge system, they do a very good job.
 
We have used Trojan [ T 105 I think ] on our golf cart for 15 years and we replaced all 6 of the first set we ever bought just about 3 years ago. Traded them in since one or two didn't stay charged long anymore.
Hubby uses that golf cart every day fro many things and really put batteries to the test.
 
I appreciate this post. I've been thinking about purchasing a Class B motor-home and batteries are one of my major concerns.

I understand lead acid batteries (wet and AGM) if discharged below 50% shortens their life but with proper care have approximately a 1,000 discharge/recharge life. So if I have a 100 AMP battery in reality I have 50 AMPs. Trojan 31-AGM 100 AH $260.

If I have a 100 AMP Lithium Ion battery I actually have the full 100 AMPs and with proper care have approximately a 5,000 discharge/recharge life. Heat and extreme cold are bad. Smart Battery $1,300.
 
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Having worked with lead acid batteries for most of my career I can tell you that in "normal" use they have a useful life of 5 years with good maintenance. I can also tell you that you can ruin one in a week. There are so many different formulations of lithium ion batteries that blanket statements just don't apply. A new technology lithium battery will last 10 times as long as a lead acid battery, produce more power per amp hour rating over that lifetime, is safe even when punctured and shorted and has integrated charge control in the battery.
The one drawback is that lithium is dangerous when exposed to water or any hydrogen rich environment. The batteries have to be sealed to prevent that kind of contamination. For example; the Tesla Battery Wall is the best rated battery for home solar power. It is so good that Australia just bought a megawatt storage facility to help even out power availability for peak demand usage. Tesla also supplies batteries for Mercedes electric vehicles. Although they are two different batteries it shows how safe they are. As far as I know there have only been two fires with Tesla cars and they were both in accident and caused no injuries or loss of life. Compare that to gasoline fires from car accidents and they are much safer than anything on the road.
 
Just checked prices a few minutes ago on the Trojan T105's and they are $119 plus $23.00 core charge since we only have one to trade in .
We need 6 for our solar set.
We have 2 Suniva mono 290W so how many T105's do we need? I think it was 6.
 
Does it matter if the lithium batteryis marine or whatever to use for solar?

These are on sale this week at Bass Pro Shop,

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/tra...high-output-lithium-deep-cycle-marine-battery
1612832151355.png
 
SheepDog said:
Having worked with lead acid batteries for most of my career I can tell you that in "normal" use they have a useful life of 5 years with good maintenance. I can also tell you that you can ruin one in a week. There are so many different formulations of lithium ion batteries that blanket statements just don't apply. A new technology lithium battery will last 10 times as long as a lead acid battery, produce more power per amp hour rating over that lifetime, is safe even when punctured and shorted and has integrated charge control in the battery.
The one drawback is that lithium is dangerous when exposed to water or any hydrogen rich environment. The batteries have to be sealed to prevent that kind of contamination. For example; the Tesla Battery Wall is the best rated battery for home solar power. It is so good that Australia just bought a megawatt storage facility to help even out power availability for peak demand usage. Tesla also supplies batteries for Mercedes electric vehicles. Although they are two different batteries it shows how safe they are. As far as I know there have only been two fires with Tesla cars and they were both in accident and caused no injuries or loss of life. Compare that to gasoline fires from car accidents and they are much safer than anything on the road.
Click to expand...

Does it matter if they are marine?and can we use them for solar?
 
Generally RV/Marine batteries are kind of an in between type battery, good for cranking an engine for starting and some short term use of lights and other things in an RV. What you want for solar are high amp hour ratings, that battery shows 60 amp hour, my deep cycle lead/acid batteries are 205 amp hour, that amp hour figure is the hours a battery will take to discharge at a certain ampere rate, I think the standard is 1 ampere, in other words, if I was using my solar back up system that has 1025 total amp hours of battery power I could run my system for 1025 hours at a 1 amp discharge rate. I am hearing of more people using Lithium ion batteries in their solar battery storage systems, however I think the Li batteries are designed for solar systems, For short term low power use that battery may work good the most important thing is to have the proper solar controller, designed to feed the proper voltage and amperage to those types of batteries, different types of batteries have altogether different charge characteristics, the last thing you want is a battery to explode or start a fire. Try to find a solar system installer that can tell you what you need for charging those types of batteries. I was given a short education on solar from AM Solar, where we bought the solar system for our motorhome and they use Li batteries. www.amsolar.com I see that that battery is Lithium iron, not sure of the difference of that and a Lithium ion, but if you contact them they could let you know, the site itself has a great deal of good info, well worth checking out.
 
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viking said:
Generally RV/Marine batteries are kind of an in between type battery, good for cranking an engine for starting and some short term use of lights and other things in an RV. What you want for solar are high amp hour ratings, that battery shows 60 amp hour, my deep cycle lead/acid batteries are 205 amp hour, that amp hour figure is the hours a battery will take to discharge at a certain ampere rate, I think the standard is 1 ampere, in other words, if I was using my solar back up system that has 1025 total amp hours of battery power I could run my system for 1025 hours at a 1 amp discharge rate. I am hearing of more people using Lithium ion batteries in their solar battery storage systems, however I think the Li batteries are designed for solar systems, For short term low power use that battery may work good the most important thing is to have the proper solar controller, designed to feed the proper voltage and amperage to those types of batteries, different types of batteries have altogether different charge characteristics, the last thing you want is a battery to explode or start a fire. Try to find a solar system installer that can tell you what you need for charging those types of batteries. I was given a short education on solar from AM Solar, where we bought the solar system for our motorhome and they use Li batteries. www.amsolar.com I see that that battery is Lithium iron, not sure of the difference of that and a Lithium ion, but if you contact them they could let you know, the site itself has a great deal of good info, well worth checking out.
Click to expand...

Thankd you very much for the in depth answer. :thumbs:And its is easy for me to understand. I'll go to the site but probably just take your advice on this one. Made sense to me.
 
Supervisor42 said:
$500 for a group 24 with 60ah?
Even if you had deep pockets, and you just needed ONE for your bass boat, it is crazy.
You would be better off getting a pair of Toejams 105's.
And with the change left over, buy 2 more.:)
Click to expand...


Yall are so smart, so glad I ask. :thumbs: I knew the price was real high and was wondering i thats because you don't need many.We have to have 6 106s Trojans for golf cart and have 2 solar panels we still haven't put up cause somerhing else always happens. Think its 290 watt mono panels.
 
Golf cart , 6 volt batteries. 2x6 in series for 12v, or as many as you want.
Like Viking said the more AH rating, the longer run time. But also longer charge time.
Interstate , Trojan, or the ones I prefer are Deka. (Duracell are made by Deka)

1 have 8 (6v) 232 AH each, in my bank. 2x6 =12 v, 4x12 v at 232 ah =
928 Ah .
I can run a 100 watt bulb for 9.28 hours (thru inverter- @110 vac). Approx.

That's how I got it setup.

Charge them with grid power with smart battery minder , or with solar when grid is down.

Jim
 
Meerkat said:
Yall are so smart, so glad I ask. :thumbs: I knew the price was real high and was wondering i thats because you don't need many.We have to have 6 106s Trojans for golf cart and have 2 solar panels we still haven't put up cause somerhing else always happens. Think its 290 watt mono panels.
Click to expand...
Here's the Interstate version of the Trojan 105...
Same size. Same voltage. But twice the power storage, 210ah:
Interstate Batteries | PF-GC2-UTL
Retail price: $142. If you get more than one, even less than that.
(and these are not even 'the good ones' that @phideaux has, the 230-232's)
Those are more expensive, but they have backbone and a long life.
 
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phideaux said:
Golf cart , 6 volt batteries. 2x6 in series for 12v, or as many as you want.
Like Viking said the more AH rating, the longer run time. But also longer charge time.
Interstate , Trojan, or the ones I prefer are Deka. (Duracell are made by Deka)

1 have 8 (6v) 232 AH each, in my bank. 2x6 =12 v, 4x12 v at 232 ah =
928 Ah .
I can run a 100 watt bulb for 9.28 hours (thru inverter- @110 vac). Approx.

That's how I got it setup.

Charge them with grid power with smart battery minder , or with solar when grid is down.

Jim
Click to expand...

I'll have to check on the Deka ones so far all we ussed are Trojan 105s. :thumbs:
 
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Ya'll let me know when I can
sbathroom_urine_100-100.gif
on AGM and SLA batteries.
Didn't get to play much with the Li-ion and LIfe-PO batteries but did get to pull one Li-ion that failed.
Lots of anguish with the higher-ups on that one. :rolleyes:
On topic: The most important thing in a stationary installation is space.
You can always add more battery storage later....if you have room.
Don't build the shed to fit the batteries. Racks are a pain unless they slide.
 
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