Water Softener Discharge

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thankful_k

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First off I chose the construction forum because it seemed like a good fit. Also, I have crossposted this post verbatim on other forum sites, to get a variety of answers.

So here goes: I had a well put in, and got the water tested at ETR Laboratories. I was really sweating this, because with an oil/gas well 500 ft away, I was worried that I might wind up with a $15,000 mop bucket. Thankfully .. no toxins were present, only some coliforms that I can sterilize out.

I have some rain catchment going but I can't do it all with that. I will be watering some sheep, chickens, pets, and an orchard of 8-10 fruit trees, and watering the grass.

The other thing is that this water is HARD. Seriously. They came back with a hardness number of 275.5 mg/L. 75 or more is considered hard, so I pretty much have gravel coming out of the pipe :p

So it looks like a softener is the order of the day. I'm not buying the science behind the electronic ones, and I don't like the saltless conditioners, because they just can't handle the hardness levels I have. So if I have a softener, it appears I have to use a regenerant. I don't like the idea of dumping out 65 gallons of salt brine into the woods every other day. The other alternative is to use Potassium Chloride, which as I understand is not hard on the environment, but is much more expensive, and I have to use more of it.

The other alternative ... is to just not use a softener at all. All the long piping is PEX. But there is copper in the tankless water heater, and all the pex fittings are brass, so eventually they will get crudded up.

Or, I could filter & sterilize some rainwater to use for the house, and just let the chickens/animals/plants have the well water.

So ... now I have more questions than answers :confused:

I guess first off ...
  • How worried do I need to really be about the whole salt discharge thing? Or the potassium chloride thing?
  • Are there alternatives I'm not thinking of?
 
First off welcome aboard. This is a good place with a lot of very friendly and knowledgeable folks.
I am also on a well with very hard water. I use a salt softener system and the discharged water goes directly into my septic drain field, not the septic tank.
The softwater people recommended I do it that way.
If you chose to not use a water softener be prepared for no lather from any soaps, especially shampoo. Also, your clothes will turn a dingy grey and you will have water stains on everything. At least that was my experience.
 
The salt/brine discharge will eventually kill most plants if you discharge on top of the ground. The obvious answer is to run it in the septic like most people do then it hurts no plants.
Whether you use sodium or potassium chloride makes little difference. That much chloride will eventually kill plants if you discharge on the surface.
Opinion: I would just use salt. Unless you must have a salt-free diet.
 
There are two problems that can result from excessive salts being discharged to the septic system. It really doesn't matter if the salt is sodium chloride or potassium chloride.

f you're septic field is located in medium to fine texture soil, the salt can cause the soil structure to breakdown, which could eventually result in the soil sealing/plugging in the infiltration trenches/beds.

If the salt concentration in the septic tank is high, it can cause stratification of the solids in the tank. This can result in solids spilling over into the infiltration trenches/beds. Solids in the infiltration trenches/beds can eventually plug the soil.
 
I appreciate the responses ... I actually do not have a septic system, and have been resistant to getting one because I compost my "humanure". At this point I just can't justify spending $16k for septic. I already have $20k down the hole for this well. I can't just discharge salt water down the hill. It'll kill plants, and salt up a stream that feeds into my neighbor's property.

Looks like super-hard water will clobber any RO system: Reverse Osmosis & Hard Water | What You Need to Know - wardwater

I hate it, but maybe I will just have to filter the heck out of it & deal with the scale, or integrate rainwater into the household system.
 
I appreciate the responses ... I actually do not have a septic system, and have been resistant to getting one because I compost my "humanure". At this point I just can't justify spending $16k for septic. I already have $20k down the hole for this well. I can't just discharge salt water down the hill. It'll kill plants, and salt up a stream that feeds into my neighbor's property.

Looks like super-hard water will clobber any RO system: Reverse Osmosis & Hard Water | What You Need to Know - wardwater

I hate it, but maybe I will just have to filter the heck out of it & deal with the scale, or integrate rainwater into the household system.
OK

Could an evaporation pond be a factor?

What type if salt licks do animals need?

Just asking question

Ben
 
I am also on a well with very hard water. I use a salt softener system and the discharged water goes directly into my septic drain field, not the septic tank.
I believe this is what we did as well. Either that or he had 2 seperate fields one for the softner and one for everything else. Either way, I believe it's the same concept.

I actually use a white salt lick from a farm store and put it in my salt bin on the bottom. Then I use the regular softner salt around it and on top of it. The block lasts longer and if I forget to fill the bin with the softner salt, I've usually still got somewhat soft water because of the block. Usually when I start to see film on the shower or toilet, I know I'm out of salt. My unit doesn't have an alarm to sound when it needs filled.

I'd hate not to have a softner. I like lather and I just feel that it vastly extends the life of our appliances. We recently had to replace our dishwasher that lasted for 11 years. It was a cheap one, which we replaced with another cheap one. I hope I get 11 years out of this one too.

Putting in a septic field shouldn't be overly expensive, I wouldn't think. Although, I've never had to pay for one b/c hubs does that kind of thing all the time. I think the components would be more costly than the labor. If it was me, I think I'd price it out and see what kind of cost you are facing.

It might be worth a shot to chat with the neighbors (if there are any) and ask them what type of system they use?

Oh, and welcome aboard!
 
I suggest a dry well. You will have to check with your county but since you have a fairly deep well, bore a hole about 50 to 100 feet deep and discharge your filter into it. That will keep the minerals well into the ground and eventually the water can clean itself before it gets back to the aquifer.
 
I suggest a dry well. You will have to check with your county but since you have a fairly deep well, bore a hole about 50 to 100 feet deep and discharge your filter into it. That will keep the minerals well into the ground and eventually the water can clean itself before it gets back to the aquifer.
That is a better idea than the evaporation pond.

Ben
 
Thanks Ben. It just keeps the salt out of the working soil.
 
I suggest a dry well. You will have to check with your county but since you have a fairly deep well, bore a hole about 50 to 100 feet deep and discharge your filter into it. That will keep the minerals well into the ground and eventually the water can clean itself before it gets back to the aquifer.

OK, this is interesting. My static water level is about 80 feet. I could call the well company out to drill say a 75' hole with a 4" perforated casement, and at about $21/foot, that's about $1600, far more manageable. And we're sure that salt won't screw up the groundwater?

I am definitely going to look into this, thank you. I'll post what I find out.
 
If your static level is at 80 feet I think I would drill no more than 50 feet. I would want the salt to gravitate toward the soil and have room to let the water clean itself before reentering the aquifer.
 
If your static level is at 80 feet I think I would drill no more than 50 feet. I would want the salt to gravitate toward the soil and have room to let the water clean itself before reentering the aquifer.

Well, the smallest system I found was 32,000 grains, and the specs for that say a 43-gal discharge.

So the problem now is that if the softener is discharging 43 gallons ... a 50 ft hole with 4-in perforated PVC pipe, at 0.65 gal/ft, we only have about 38 gals in the hole. And will all that seep into my ground before the next discharge?
 
I don't think that the discharge from your filter to the waste side is going to be anywhere near that much.
That is more water than a family of three uses per day. (on average)
 
I don't think that the discharge from your filter to the waste side is going to be anywhere near that much.
That is more water than a family of three uses per day. (on average)

I should have actually mentioned this. I live alone in a very small house (512 sq ft).

You may be right ... it's just me here, I work from home, and (don't laugh) shower maybe twice a week, or whenever I get sweaty. If I add a sink/dishwasher/laundry ... so lets say I take more showers and marry someone :)

so, per week:
2 people, 5 showers/week each, 10 gallons per = 100 gals/week
3 dishwasher loads at 7 gals/load = 21 gals/week
3 loads of laundry at 20 gals/load = 60 gals/week

Let's say 200 gals/week, that's 800 gals/month

I'll research based on that
 
I should have actually mentioned this. I live alone in a very small house (512 sq ft).

You may be right ... it's just me here, I work from home, and (don't laugh) shower maybe twice a week, or whenever I get sweaty. If I add a sink/dishwasher/laundry ... so lets say I take more showers and marry someone :)

so, per week:
2 people, 5 showers/week each, 10 gallons per = 100 gals/week
3 dishwasher loads at 7 gals/load = 21 gals/week
3 loads of laundry at 20 gals/load = 60 gals/week

Let's say 200 gals/week, that's 800 gals/month

I'll research based on that
Ok, you have my curiosity up.
Have you posted in the new user introductions?
 
I should have actually mentioned this. I live alone in a very small house (512 sq ft).

You may be right ... it's just me here, I work from home, and (don't laugh) shower maybe twice a week, or whenever I get sweaty. If I add a sink/dishwasher/laundry ... so lets say I take more showers and marry someone :)

so, per week:
2 people, 5 showers/week each, 10 gallons per = 100 gals/week
3 dishwasher loads at 7 gals/load = 21 gals/week
3 loads of laundry at 20 gals/load = 60 gals/week

Let's say 200 gals/week, that's 800 gals/month

I'll research based on that
In my last house we had a 500 gallon tank. There were the two of us. The city filled our tank once a week but if the fill pipe was frozen the tank would have to last us two weeks. I'd up your guesstimate a little but you are in the ballpark. We never ran out of water after we switched to a front loading clothes washer. We never had a dishwasher. Okay, I had a dishwasher, she didn't.😏
 
OK, so I got a little firmer idea on numbers and ideas and what not.

I got numbers from one comany with a super-high efficiciency 15,000 grain softener that will apparently will regenerate after 937 gallons, with only 3 lbs of salt and 33 gals of water. That seems a little ... optimistic, but okay.

That puts me at only once a month ... but the system has to be regenned at least every 2 weeks. A little more realistic option is a 24k grain upflow softener that will use 6.25 lbs of salt and 28 gallons of water. So there's that.

I called the guy from the well drilling outfit that handles water conditioning and he says he has never seen a problem with running discharge into a french drain. If I have 125 ft of drain line 3 ft deep that's 125*0.65 = 81 gallons. I have sandy soil.

To get an answer on correct handling of the discharge ... tried county extension office, Upper Trinity water authority, TCEQ ... all with the run around. Maybe I'll just have to have lunch with the governor.:rolleyes:

I just don't want to be that guy that fouled up everyone's pond, water table, etc. etc. by dumping gallons and gallons of salt water out
 
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AT LONG LAST! A STRAIGHT ANSWER!

I wound up reaching the septic inspector gentleman in my county. I told him that I planned to dig a 30" trench, 125 ft, downhill (where there is a creek), put in a foot of gravel, french drain pipe, then fill with gravel to the surface. I asked if this was the correct and proper way to do this. "Ain't gonna hurt anything" was his exact words I think.

So ... I can get the trench dug for about $500, a few yards of gravel for about $300, pipe landscape fabric, etc ,etc a few more hundred. Well within budget.
 

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