What to look for in a tractor?

[Owl]

We are closing in on some acreage to retire on and we know we will need to find ourselves a tractor. I know I will have a need for 4WD, bucket loader and 3 point hitch with box blade. I believe the tractor will get fairly heavy use during the first few years while we fence, clean up the property, demo buildings and build new buildings. Afterwards, I see it being used to maintain the property and burying hogzillas.

What you you look for in a new or preferably used tractor?

 

[zoomzoom]

First, what's your budget?

Myself, I like to stick with the big 3 brands (Deere, Kubota & New Holland).

I'd suggest you sit in as many as you can find in your price range. Ergonomics will be important and each tractor is different to each operator.

What's your climate and terrain? Picking the right tires will be key to getting your chores done.

What dealers do you have around you? Support (parts & service) is key. A crappy dealer can mess you up if you can't get your machine serviced properly and timely. If you stick with the big 3 brands, you "shouldn't" need much service.

If you're doing a lot of back-and-forth work (backing up then pulling forward often), you'll probably want a HST transmission. If you're doing a lot of pushing or pulling, a geared tranny may be better.

 

[SheepDog]

First, determine the amount of power you need. will you be pulling a disc, plow, rake? will you have an auger to dig fence post holes? Will you need a bucket or bale forks/spines? How about a mower and a rotor-tiller?
If you want to pull a rotor-tiller or a disc the you need to decide how wide the attachments will be and get more HP than you can "just get away with". Buying used you can usually get a decent set of attachments with the tractor. A hydraulic double lift on the front will be worth getting if you move gravel, compost or bales of hay or straw. A PTO and 3 point hitch are virtually standard features but it is good to check that it is a standard size for attachments. A proprietary 3 point will force you to buy from the manufacturer only.

 

[Owl]

Thank you for the replies. Your comments and questions have helped. The property is mostly wooded and will not be farmed or ranched. We would like to have a large garden and maybe a few critters.

First, what's your budget?

Myself, I like to stick with the big 3 brands (Deere, Kubota & New Holland).

I'd suggest you sit in as many as you can find in your price range. Ergonomics will be important and each tractor is different to each operator.

What's your climate and terrain? Picking the right tires will be key to getting your chores done.

What dealers do you have around you? Support (parts & service) is key. A crappy dealer can mess you up if you can't get your machine serviced properly and timely. If you stick with the big 3 brands, you "shouldn't" need much service.

If you're doing a lot of back-and-forth work (backing up then pulling forward often), you'll probably want a HST transmission. If you're doing a lot of pushing or pulling, a geared tranny may be better.

I had not thought of checking the ergonomics. That is a good point.
Climate is hot and can be wet. The land is flat with 80% tree cover.

First, determine the amount of power you need. will you be pulling a disc, plow, rake? will you have an auger to dig fence post holes? Will you need a bucket or bale forks/spines? How about a mower and a rotor-tiller?
If you want to pull a rotor-tiller or a disc the you need to decide how wide the attachments will be and get more HP than you can "just get away with". Buying used you can usually get a decent set of attachments with the tractor. A hydraulic double lift on the front will be worth getting if you move gravel, compost or bales of hay or straw. A PTO and 3 point hitch are virtually standard features but it is good to check that it is a standard size for attachments. A proprietary 3 point will force you to buy from the manufacturer only.

I don't know that I will be pulling a plow, disk or a rake. I will be maintaining a short road into the homestead. I have a great deal of fencing to do, but was thinking metal posts rather than wood. I was hoping to rent an auger for the corner posts. A mower, rototiller and a firewood splitter would be nice at some point.

 

[robin416]

We had two Kubota L series tractors. Sold the first when we moved, sold the second when we moved. If I end up somewhere a tractor is needed again I won't hesitate to go with another Kubota. I think I used that thing more than I drove my truck. And had it doing things that it probably wasn't designed to do.

 

[AdmiralD7S]

I agree with the above and also recommend the following.

If you will NEED it to go into soggy terrain, look for mechanical four wheel drive (MFWD) tractors with cleated tires all around.

Also, if you will be on soggy and/or uneven ground, avoid tricycle-design tractors.

I also recommend independent PTO so you can run the PTO shaft and the 3PH arms without fighting the clutch.

Think on whether you can get by on Cat 1 implements or if you need Cat 2.

Diesel or gas? Gas engines are generally easier to start up, but diesels that newer (or older ones that are taken care of) should be fine. My personal preference is diesel for the bigger "oomph" and because diesel stores much better long term. Also, the whistle of a diesel tractor's turbo is like the alpha farmer's mating call...gets the blood flowing!

I highly recommend a set of headlights and a rear work/flood light. I have finished s surprisingly number of tasks an hour after sunset (and 2 hours after I KNEW I was going to be done by!).

If you're going into forested areas, particularly with thorny underbrush, make sure your tractor doesn't have exposed hoses/wiring that can snag and be ripped off as you go by (I'm looking at you, mid-80s Ford 5000 series...)

 

[goshengirl]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Kioti?

 

[Bacpacker]

Everything Zoomzoom and Admiral pointed out is correct. Ergonomics is important if you are gonna be on it long periods of time, or even just ease of use. Diesil offers more power (torque) than gas does and it's easier to store extra. A good part of your decision will come down to how much land you have and what kind and how much work you plan to use it for.
The big 3 is much easier to get parts for, however there are a couple other brands that seem to be gaining a good following. Mahindra gets advertised quite a bit, and Kioti which was already mentioned. I worked with a guy for a while that had one and thought it was a really good tractor. If you look at either of those, or any others outside the big 3, make sure you can locate established dealers in your area for any needed parts or service.

 

[buildit]

I'll agree with robin and say I love my Kubota L series. However it really does depend on your budget. I bought my tractor and attachments 14 years ago for $23K and lsat time I was at a dealership and priced just a tractor like mine is $25K with no attachments.

 

[Owl]

I appreciate the input. I have not used a tractor in 40 years, since high school. We used it farm about the same amount acreage I am looking at now.
I am hoping to learn enough to ask smarter questions at the dealer.

 

[zoomzoom]

You mentioned mower and log splitter.

If you're talking about a finish mower for the lawn, in my experience, it doesn't work so well. You said you have flat, wet ground. A tractor in the weight you're looking (unless you're going with a sub-CUT) will have a tendency to tear up your lawn pretty badly, especially if you're using R1 (AG) tires.

For the log splitter, in my opinion, it's better to get a stand-alone unit. Why put all the hours on your tractor when you could put them on a little 5HP Briggs? Also, with a stand-alone splitter, your tractor is freed up to do other things like drag logs or pull a trailer to where you're splitting.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Kioti?

I have a fair amount of time in their CK and DK series tractors. They're pretty decent tractors but they do have their weak points. Not sure if they actually make their own backhoes but in my experience, they're not up to the quality of the rest of the tractor as they seem to fail. Broken welds, bend easily, poor hydraulics... They're also heavier than their counterparts in the big-3. That's more often than not, a bad thing. Plan on having to do some kind of repair annually.

 

[Owl]

You mentioned mower and log splitter.

If you're talking about a finish mower for the lawn, in my experience, it doesn't work so well. You said you have flat, wet ground. A tractor in the weight you're looking (unless you're going with a sub-CUT) will have a tendency to tear up your lawn pretty badly, especially if you're using R1 (AG) tires.

For the log splitter, in my opinion, it's better to get a stand-alone unit. Why put all the hours on your tractor when you could put them on a little 5HP Briggs? Also, with a stand-alone splitter, your tractor is freed up to do other things like drag logs or pull a trailer to where you're splitting

East Texas. The land is not wet, but we get a fair bit of rain. For the first years, a brush hog might be of value. We have a fair bit of yaupon that needs to be cleared out. You are right, I won't be doing lawn work with the tractor and a stand alone splitter makes better sense.

 

[robin416]

I used the bucket and a chain on ours to pull trees up to two inches in diameter when the were in places I didn't want them. Like along the fenceline.

 

[goshengirl]

@Owl, I hope you don't mind that I jumped in on your thread. We're in a similar situation as you - hubby and I closed on our future retirement property a couple months ago, and a tractor is on the agenda (both for fixing it up and for use once we live there). We've pretty much settled on a Kioti (it came down to that or the Kubota), but we haven't finalized things yet.

I always appreciated the information and advice from the folks on PS - it's great to see a thread like that here.

When do you close on your place? Best of luck to you!

 

[buildit]

I've looked at implements for my tractor and have found ironically there isn't a single implement which can be powered independently which costs less when using a tractors three point hitch. LOL A log splitter, a generator and a wood chipper are ALL cheaper if you buy them as a separate unit.
As for mowing I have 5 acres I mow with a three point attached mowing deck and rear discharge from woods. Thing has been used for brush hogging areas and other than two broken belts and a pair of new blades it's been trouble free and is a great finish mower.


Things to ask when buying in my humble opinion.
1. PTO output
2. Hydraulic pressure
3. Hydraulic hoses used
4. Grease fittings locations
5. Gage metal used for implements
6. Hydrostatic vs Clutch
7. Ag tires vs mid grade work site vs turf (I went with the work sire tires)
8. And last do not be afraid to point out things the competition does better and ask for a price drop. ;-)

 

[phideaux]

I have owned Kioti for over 15 years ,
My first one was a LK3054, shuttle shift gear trans.
owned it for 12 years , never did anything to it but oil and filters... never one problem,
and I worked the crap out of it., even dug a underground 8x10 bunker , in a hillside.

Sold it , about 3 years ago, .
I really tried to buy John Deere or a Kubota, (because friends have them) , but I just looked at things like wheelbase,
lift capacities on 3 point hitch ,and the front loader... and the weight, and the axle size, and some other things that Kioti just was bigger and better.
Plus I had one for 12 years prior.....no problems.

Had to get Hydrostatic drive because of my knees being shot, so the constant clutching and braking was killing me.

So I bought a CK 35, Hydro

Had it 3 years ... work the crap out of it too... not one problem so far.
The gear drive, LK3054 was was stronger, but not a lot, than the hydro,pulling and pushing(plowing deep, and digging with loader) (approx same HP) . but the Hydro can work circles around the geardrive........... faster, all operations, frontloader and 3 point lift are lots faster.
Example: The geardrive would take me 4+ hours to plow snow from my driveway. The Hydro takes an hour.

So there you have 15+years experience with Kioti,
Had Fords before, ....no comparison.

Oh btw, the Kioti is a few grand less cost that Deere and Kubota.

Jim

 

[LincTex]

They're also heavier than their counterparts in the big-3.
That's more often than not, a bad thing.

That is absolutely not true.
My "little" Branson 3510i has WAAYY more power that the tractor can handle, so I'm constantly wishing it weighed more.
The whole point of having a tractor be useful is if it weighs enough.
MOST people complain wishing their tractors weighed more (those who use them for real work)

 

[Tirediron]

I would shy away from the New, John Deere & Hew Holland tractors unless you are going to trade them in every 5 years or so, I would also leave the frontwheel assist fantasy at the dealers, way more parts to break and maintain. And if you really are stuck on the Allwheel drive concept look into the agricultural versions of the zoom boom type of machine.
Really think about what you need / want to accomplish with your machine, and the cost of ownership. Also consider the cost of hydraulic hose fittings, higher pressure ( over 2000 ish psi) often come with O -ring face fittings, these often cost 4 times what a jic , NPT, or ORB fitting costs that adds up.
Often a bigger 100hp + farm tractor with reasonable hours can be had for far less than 1/2 the cost of a new utility front wheel assist and will probably live far longer.

 

[zoomzoom]

That is absolutely not true.
My "little" Branson 3510i has WAAYY more power that the tractor can handle, so I'm constantly wishing it weighed more.
The whole point of having a tractor be useful is if it weighs enough.
MOST people complain wishing their tractors weighed more (those who use them for real work)

We could go back and forth but I see no need.

 

[Cnsper]

First thing I look for is the key, then if the seat is wet.

Other than that tires and a motor are nice to have. A lot of land has been farmed with ole massey ferguson tractors.

 

[AtomicFarmer]

We were a full time dairy farm until 2000. Now we grow hay and oats. All told we have ~250 acres. We farmed with all Farmalls (Internationals) for years. We had an H, M, 656 diesel and 806 diesel while we were full timing it. They're all old school farm tractors. In 2008 we bought an almost new John Deere 6403 with 4x4, gear tranny, front loader with quick-tach material bucket, pallet forks, and bale spear, and heat and air conditioning. I have since bought a Farmall 560 diesel(always wanted one and the right one came along) and a second H. I can tell you that the difference between the old and the new is night and day. The old ones are built like tanks with minimal electronics and simple design but when you bounce through the fields all day you know you did something. The Deere is still a solid tractor but MUCH more ergonomic and frankly, the heat and AC is really nice, especially since my dad is 70 now and I feel better with him in comfort than with the sun beating down on him all day. So that's where I come from.

To make this relevant to you, Owl, I'll say the following:

Don't skimp on horsepower. Even if you get a smallish "nice" tractor and an old bruiser for the heavy work, make sure you have enough tractor for the tasks you need to do or you'll be mad at yourself in no time. Old tractors can be cheap (ish) and parts are readily available.

I'd really recommend that climate controlled cab, especially with you being in a hot climate. If you're comfortable you'll get a lot more work done on a given day and it'll be safer with no heat related ailments to worry about. You're not being soft by being comfortable.

I won't reiterate the points made above as they were covered really well by capable people already.

 

[TMT Tactical]

As a complete novice, I will explain my needs and hopefully you all can point me to the proper type and size tractor. First weather -- winter low of 30 and summer high of 120. Second usage -- clear scrub brush and build road into property. Third -- excavate for house with full basement. Fourth excavate for underground rabbit hole tunnel / rifle range. Fifth --- dig post holes for fencing. Property type --- desert soil --- non mountain soil, I don't expect to hit solid rock, like Gumpy. Best recommendation?

 

[Tirediron]

I would recommend an industrial type tractor, like Chris posted, a utility tractor won't stand up to much dirt work, the loaders are mostly for picking things up that are already mostly loose.
If you can find an industrial with a fairly easily detachable back hoe that would be ideal, Or try to find a mid size excavator which would do most of the things you want to do a lot better than a backhoe or skip loader . a large skid loader or small industrial wheel loader might also be a consideration. A tractor would need to be at least 80 HP to get much done.
Probably the best bet would be to rent a machine to do the heavy work and then buy a utility tractor for chores

 

[zoomzoom]

Probably the best bet would be to rent a machine to do the heavy work and then buy a utility tractor for chores

My thoughts exactly. With a utility tractor, you'll spend 10x the time doing something like digging a foundation compared to bringing in an excavator. Give the big work to the big equipment then get a utility tractor for maintenance and chores.

Don't know if you need 80HP for maintaining your residence. For most, 25-50 HP will take care of your needs.

 

[SheepDog]

You won't build a road or excavate a basement with a tractor. You can clear scrub brush with a tractor. A large backhoe can dig a basement but it will take a lot of time and wear you out. An excavator is used to dig because that is what they are made to do. Cutting in a road is best done with grading equipment. You could start the process with a loader but it will take a lot more time and wear you out. A dozer and grader make easy work putting in a road.

 

[Tirediron]

You won't build a road or excavate a basement with a tractor. You can clear scrub brush with a tractor. A large backhoe can dig a basement but it will take a lot of time and wear you out. An excavator is used to dig because that is what they are made to do. Cutting in a road is best done with grading equipment. You could start the process with a loader but it will take a lot more time and wear you out. A dozer and grader make easy work putting in a road.

You must have gone to the specialty equipment school. an excavator with a decent operator is an excellent road building machine, especially in a close cut and fill situation. A dozer can do most of the jobs too provided the operator knows how, lots of basements were dug using loaders, but in the end it comes down to time and money. If I could only have one piece of industrial equipment I would pick the excavator,

 

[TMT Tactical]

Okay next magic question what size excavator? They appear to come in very small to huge sizes. Brand and Model Please, I know nothing about these, Biggest I have used was small back hoe and a small bob cat.

 

[buildit]

Okay next magic question what size excavator? They appear to come in very small to huge sizes. Brand and Model Please, I know nothing about these, Biggest I have used was small back hoe and a small bob cat.

It all depends upon what you wanna do? If your just going to dig fence posts there is a cheaper way... but if you're trenching different various size materials and need to have some reach when digging then back hoes are great. Downside is may are very limited by the size and weight of your tractor. They also cost a lot if you are not using a backhoe a lot. So consider renting if you intend it to be a one time a year use.

 

[Tirediron]

Okay next magic question what size excavator? They appear to come in very small to huge sizes. Brand and Model Please, I know nothing about these, Biggest I have used was small back hoe and a small bob cat.

Personally I like something in the 15 to 20 ton range . Hitachi and John Deere are probably the best bang for your buck. Have a look on rbauction.com. if you sign up with an account, basicly the same process as signing up here, you can get auction results for the past 2 years. you can search just your area or the world. If you can successfully dig with a backhoe an excavator will be a breeze. I know of a lot of people who plan their project, buy a decent machine in a slow season, do the bulk of their work and then resell in a more active season, often using the machine for very little cost, other than fuel and upkeep.

 

[TMT Tactical]

Thanks Tirediron, one more place to check out and see what is what.