Safe Water

[hashbrown]

You certainly put me in my place with all that. Glad you were able to show some actual proof with your bluster.[/sarc]

Pull the next trick and boast how you ain't dead yet as proof you have it all figured out. When that beaver or squirrel uphill gives you Guardia........
[/QUOTE]

Nice to have you in the forum, we needed someone like you to shed some light on how we don't know shat from good apple butter.

 

[SoJer]

Ay, carumba! Let's not devolve this place into a 'clone of SB', shall we, Gents? There's Good, Solid Technically-accurate Info in the OP, and it'd be a shame if'n it got 'buried' under layers of posters trying to 'Out-helicopter the other with their peckers'.. There's Plenty of Other threads for that (like 9mm vs 45acp, 1911s vs Everything-else, etc

How about, let's keep the Valuable Info-Threads filled with just-That / discussions, thereof, eh?

.02
jd

 

[INresponse]

I've written no insults here at all. I'm direct and factual. Information neither friendly or hostile, it simply exists.

I merely suggested we should respect the opinions of others, but friendly is the best way to make that happen. Thank you though for your reply. Hoping you can fit in here and offer helpful and respectful information.

Remember, polite and respectful. It's what we are all about.

 

[INresponse]

Why don't we start off simple and show you how to use the quote button first.

Really? Within two days? My experience with this forum is polite and respectful is the common belief. If you could please be polite and respectful all will go well. You have good information to share but becoming standoffish simply because others post something you disagree with is not a good way to start.
Come on man, you can do this. Thanks for the information you have shared. We can all benefit from this knowledge but we need to keep it civil.
Thank you.

 

[Supervisor42]

Outstanding Info in the OP, Thanks. Should be a 'sticky'..

One thought on an addition (..well, maybe 'Pre-Filtration' is more accurate..) to "Sediment Removal" - That being, 'Coarse-solids / Debris Removal', ie: We use this stuff (and Note: this is NOT 'intending to be an endorsement', though I will say, Fwiw - Excellent Product / Outstanding CS )

I am curious how survivalists deal with very hard water.
West of us, every house had a well and water that was so hard it was undrinkable. It may have been 'safe' to drink, but that wouldn't matter because you weren't gonna drink much.
Every house also had its own water-softener system:

I went thru the first post and the only thing I saw that might help is the zeolite.
Anybody here use a water-softener system? I heard they use a lot of salt, true?

 

[Spikedriver]

I am curious how survivalists deal with very hard water.
West of us, every house had a well and water that was so hard it was undrinkable. It may have been 'safe' to drink, but that wouldn't matter because you weren't gonna drink much.
Every house also had its own water-softener system:

I went thru the first post and the only thing I saw that might help is the zeolite.
Anybody here use a water-softener system? I heard they use a lot of salt, true?

Our farm water was quite hard. It was actually fine to drink. I've lived in several houses the had wells and all had hard water, and all were fine to drink. However hard water sucks for showering, washing clothes, etc. I've been in houses where the shower water felt like getting hit with a stream of BBs and the soap won't make lather in it.

So all those acreage did have softeners, and yes they do use a fair bit of salt. Of course how much salt is dependent on how much water is being used. It's nothing complicated though. One thing to check is to be sure the salt isn't bridging inside the softener. I had that happen more than once. Looks like the softener is full, but the water isn't getting treated...

 

[Supervisor42]

Our farm water was quite hard. It was actually fine to drink. I've lived in several houses the had wells and all had hard water, and all were fine to drink. However hard water sucks for showering, washing clothes, etc. I've been in houses where the shower water felt like getting hit with a stream of BBs and the soap won't make lather in it.

So all those acreage did have softeners, and yes they do use a fair bit of salt. Of course how much salt is dependent on how much water is being used. It's nothing complicated though. One thing to check is to be sure the salt isn't bridging inside the softener. I had that happen more than once. Looks like the softener is full, but the water isn't getting treated...

I think the wells west of here must have had a side-order of sulfur in the water because it stank and every outdoor faucet had an orange stain leading down from it and the brass was green.
I don't have much other experience with hard water which is why I asked.

 

[Spikedriver]

I think the ones west of here must have had a side-order of sulfur in it because it stank and every outdoor faucet had an orange stain leading down from it and the brass was green.
I don't have much other experience with hard water which is why I asked.

That is very possible. I've had Sulphur water before and it was nasty, nasty, nasty.

I myself prefer drinking water that is a little hard. I find that it tastes more like fresh wild water than distilled or soft water. The last acreage I had, there was lime and iron in the water and the softener could hardly keep up with it. The water had a little chalk taste in it. It sucked, but it wasn't intolerable. You couldn't wash clothes in it though, the iron would stain the whites.

I'm not sure what a softener costs these days, but I think it's worthwhile. At dad's farm the softener fed the bathrooms, washing machine, and kitchen sink. The back room sink was teed off the main line into the house. That sink had much better tasting water so that's what we drank. So the softener doesn't necessarily feed all the outlets in the house if you choose not to plumb it that way. You can save a bit on salt that way, by not using soft water where you don't need it...

 

[Iamzeke]

Really? Within two days? My experience with this forum is polite and respectful is the common belief. If you could please be polite and respectful all will go well. You have good information to share but becoming standoffish simply because others post something you disagree with is not a good way to start.
Come on man, you can do this. Thanks for the information you have shared. We can all benefit from this knowledge but we need to keep it civil.
Thank you.

I didn't start the rude exchange with Hashbrown. I also noted you were fine with him taking shots across my bow several times before you posted first, but chose to scold me when I finally fired a light shot in return. Different rule sets for different people?

I am curious how survivalists deal with very hard water.

You have to realize that calcium based hard water is perfectly safe for people to drink. Extra soluted minerals is good for your health.

It's your water appliances and fixtures that get ruined by it.

So the issue is a split conversation. Two issues at cross purposes since softening your water will save your appliances and fixtures, but bring up potential health risks in drinking it. Solving the conflicting problem isn't easy. That's why they recommend putting RO downstream from your softening system in order to drink it.

This didn't used to be such a big problem in older homes. Back then they didn't include water restriction devices in order to cut down on water usage, but now with flow limiters on faucets, showerheads, and low flow toilets it has become more acute. Nor can you go buy brand new old school fixtures.

If you want to solve the issue without using RO then you have to tap the incoming supply line before where it goes into the softening system and route that one line to your designated drinking/cooking water faucet, and then be prepared to clean the scale out of the fixture more often.

Sulfur and iron are much more troublesome though.

 

[INresponse]

I am curious how survivalists deal with very hard water.
West of us, every house had a well and water that was so hard it was undrinkable. It may have been 'safe' to drink, but that wouldn't matter because you weren't gonna drink much.
Every house also had its own water-softener system:

I went thru the first post and the only thing I saw that might help is the zeolite.
Anybody here use a water-softener system? I heard they use a lot of salt, true?

There are various opinions on water softeners with septic tanks but if you have a septic tank it may be best to consider draining the water softener backwash into a separate drain field to limit the salt input into the septic tank. It is possible/probable the salt will hinder the biologic efforts inside the septic tank. However the claims are the newer systems discharge less salt than the older models but it is something you should consider.
I don't know what is best, just sharing what what I learned in my studies on the subject.

 

[Supervisor42]

That is very possible. I've had Sulphur water before and it was nasty, nasty, nasty.

I myself prefer drinking water that is a little hard. I find that it tastes more like fresh wild water than distilled or soft water. The last acreage I had, there was lime and iron in the water and the softener could hardly keep up with it. The water had a little chalk taste in it. It sucked, but it wasn't intolerable. You couldn't wash clothes in it though, the iron would stain the whites.

Even though we aren't supposed to talk about distilled water, many would think it is the purest, cleanest, safest, water of them all .
The reason you listed is why it is not good for drinking.
We were in the hayfield sweating our buts off and the water-cooler ran dry.
There were a couple of unopened gallon jugs of distilled water behind the truck seat, nice and hot.(for some battery)
We didn't care, we were THIRSTY!
We chugged them down.
Every one of us was down with 4-alarm heartburn an hour later.
Having some minerals in your drinking water is very important.

 

[INresponse]

I didn't start the rude exchange with Hashbrown. I also noted you were fine with him taking shots across my bow several times before you posted first, but chose to scold me when I finally fired a light shot in return. Different rule sets for different people?

If you could, please, be polite and respectful all your information will be appreciated. There are two or three or 10 sides to every opinion but no matter how right someone is the information should be shared respectfully. I know you can do it.

We can all reread the entire thread to see what was said and when, but instead it will be a better option to take the high road. My apologies if I offended you.

As Forrest once said, "That's all I gotta say about that.

Thank you.

 

[INresponse]

Even though we aren't supposed to talk about distilled water, many would think it is the purest, safest, water of them all .
The reason you listed is why it is not good for drinking.
We were in the hayfield sweating our buts off and the water-cooler ran dry.
There were a couple gallon jugs of distilled water behind the truck seat, nice and hot.(for some battery)
We didn't care, we were THIRSTY!
We chugged them down.
Every one of us was down with 4-alarm heartburn an hour later.
Having some minerals in your drinking water is very important.

There are times when drinking the pure stuff is helpful for the body. Occasional use can reduce the frequency of kidney stones, help to clean the kidneys, and help reduce impurities in the body. My doctor would recommend a week a month to help reduce kidney stones. Nevada water is very hard and kidney stones were very popular, or probably unpopular, so the doctors would suggest drinking the pure stuff a week at a time once a month to reduce the chance of a painful stone.
But, with any medical situation it may be best to consult with your physician first. I am not a doctor, but I did stay at a Motel 6 once.

 

[Iamzeke]

As long as we don't delve into the actual distillation of water in this thread, then I'm fine with discussing its drinking risk factors. It's the science and tech behind making it that would blow this thread way out of proportion. It's a good topic, but it needs its own topic thread.

Properly distilled water is supposed to be a neutral ph. It does not create more acid for the stomach. But when you chug a lot and it slops over the lower esophageal sphincter then it has already mixed with your existing stomach acid and hits the tender esophageal tissues. The key is to drink it slower for reydration. Let your gut absorb it gradually.

It also will slowly leach minerals from your bones. But this is readily countered by a diet that has enough minerals to make up for the loss. Any old navy man can talk about drinking distilled water on ship. Before all the modern ships got fancy RO systems they relied on distillation. The world navies relied in distilling sea water for the entire 20th century. Only has this new century seen the change to RO on ships. Good old navy food on ship was good enough to counter the slow mineral leaching effects. I guess if you have a bad diet of US fast food or are a picky eater at home then you should pay attention to this risk.

All in all, there is a lot of wild talk around the internet about the great virtues or bad risks about distilled water drinking. But it is really not a big deal either way. It's not the best for you or the worst. You just know how to deal with it. As for emergency storage water I see it as an unnecessary expense/effort. It requires skill, time, gear, and/or money in excess proportions to what is needed to have water storage security.

Obviously, if your doctor recommends it for a condition you have then you should think about prepping for that special need. But for most generally healthy people it is not some kind of miracle fluid. Note that a slice of lemon in your tap water glass does a pretty good job to reduce kidney stone occurrence.

 

[Amish Heart]

There is a saltless water softener unit available. We had one installed in our New Mexico house before we sold it.

 

[Cabin Fever]

There is a saltless water softener unit available. We had one installed in our New Mexico house before we sold it.

https://www.kinetico.com/

 

[Amish Heart]

Yep, like that. So we moved and had an RO thing put in at the sink. Our well water is tested good, but I still use a Big Black Berkey for tap water. Have an extra Berkey, and 4 extra filter sets. We have a "water area" for home use. In the corner of the kitchen we have the Berkey set up on a stand, next to it is a filled, filter 5 gallon jug, next to that is a 5 gallon jug cold and hot water dispenser, next to that is an icemaker. We filter all the water going into the 5 gallon jugs. This kitchen system works well for me, since I'm the one maintaining it. Stored water in the basement, stored water in the milkhouse. We freeze here in the winter, so have to be careful where water is stored and stays above freezing. I learned that our first winter here, last winter, where we broke records (negative 16) and I must have had over a dozen store 5 gallon water jugs break. My 55 gallon drums did ok with a blanket over them.

 

[Spikedriver]

https://www.kinetico.com/

I'll have to ask my brother if that's the one he has. He has some form of a bacteria in his water that is not harmful to drink, but it makes a slimy rust in the water lines. If your faucet drips you'll get this orange booger hanging out of it. Whatever the softener is that he put in, it was expensive and it fixed the problem...

 

[viking]

I'd be cautious about poking the bear (hash brown), kind of like Biden poking the real bear (Putin and Russians), the end result won't be good. I know you said that you are considered blunt but sometimes blunt is awfully close to being an AH, on the other hand we appreciate helpful information that is given out of concern and love for others, put things in the right perspective and we'll be happy to listen, if it comes to us like someone with a short man syndrome seeking to show their superior knowledge to make up for their size, that's another thing we don't need here, just know that we are not always PC or desire perfection, we do look for information that will help us survive what's coming. Treat us decently and we'll reciprocate in kindness. Good information is more precious than gold or silver, it's wisdom and no one can put a value on that.

 

[Bacpacker]

I'll third that Viking. Good information can be hard to come by, detailed good info in particular. But even someone being blunt doesn't have to challenge everything responded to. Everybody on here has various issue they deal with whether water, food, medical, etc. Most on here have figured out what works for them in their area. Again most are always looking for options that may or may not work for them. No reason in the world to challenge that. A lot of folks on here have lived in their particular AO for a long time and no that given area better than anyone else on here could even begin to do. While the basic info is the same everywhere, it may need slight adjustments for one state vs another. No need to dispute that its just the way it is. Doesn't change the basic info at all.
Bottom line folks on here will be much more receptive to the info of any type if there is no "looking down the nose", or as Viking put it so well "no display of little man syndrome". Otherwise many will just ignore the threads in the first place and maybe miss out on just the tidbit they need for a given item. There is some great folks on here, others (like me) not so much, but we have found we get along well and share much valuable info by just being respectful.

 

[Iamzeke]

So you guys are cautioning me about messing with Hashbrown when he was the one to come into this thread and start causing crap from his first post in it?

I answered his first jab politely but he was the one who wanted to keep trolling about it.

That you two chose to warn me off instead of putting him in his place tells me everything I need to know about this forum.

 

[SoJer]

*sigh* There are just going to be So Many Dead People. +_+

OP, Thanks for your Efforts, and Accurate Info, herein.

jd

 

[Bacpacker]

I'm not choosing sides. Just putting out info that I've seen work on here for several years now.
Bottom line I just want to see this forum succed and help folks looking for help or knowledge along the way. It's all up to each how they choose to do it.

 

[Iamzeke]

I'm not choosing sides. Just putting out info that I've seen work on here for several years now.
Bottom line I just want to see this forum succed and help folks looking for help or knowledge along the way. It's all up to each how they choose to do it.

What side is there to choose? It was my first post/thread outside of my hello introduction thread. There was no history to pick a side.

I posted my first thread. Hashbrown waltzed in starting to troll right from the jump. You are somehow neutral/noncommittal about it.

That's a hell of a way to help this forum succeed.

 

[Neb]

For my part I have developed 2 springs so far that produce well enough year long to cover our basic needs. 5hey will do 5000 gallons a day in the spring but drop off in August.



They feed a pond and the critters are very happy with the water.

This video shows the spring before it was back filled and then covered.



Ben

 

[Bacpacker]

What side is there to choose? It was my first post/thread outside of my hello introduction thread. There was no history to pick a side.

I posted my first thread. Hashbrown waltzed in starting to troll right from the jump. You are somehow neutral/noncommittal about it.

That's a hell of a way to help this forum succeed.

Far from non comittal. I was just trying to get the thread back on track and not devote into a pissing contest. Seems more than you can manage. Thats a shame, since you obviously have good info to offer.

 

[SheepDog]

Zeke,
No one was blameless once the contest began. Rather than posting your information and guiding it back to your intent you felt the need to comment on the inadequacies of their information. If you can't accept that others will stand by what has worked or they believe will work for their need and provide your information without treating their information as a personal challenge or attack then you may be too brilliant to be a good neighbor.
I ask that you continue to provide your information without getting into an argument with different views. It is unlikely that everyone will agree - that is who we are - you are free to share your info but you shouldn't expect all of this board to just accept it. Only sheep do that and we are not, for the most part, sheep. It is not your job to insure this forum and the people here survive. You can share your information but you can't make it the only information that people have. We are all bright folks with histories and resources. We can either respect each other and trust that they will take what they need or break out in competition for the place at the top without respect or trust.

You have a choice to make. Will you be a good neighbor or will you get emotionally injured and leave?
I hope you stay because as far as I can tell so far you have good information. You are the only one who controls how you respond.

 

[SoJer]

No one was blameless once the contest began....
I hope you stay because as far as I can tell so far you have good information.

Too late. The 'baby has been tossed out with the bathwater', unfortunately.

While I agree with your First statement - (My 'advice' was just to simply 'ignore the bull - and Sorry, but.. 'Go stab yourself in the throat with a -encrusted spork' is NO Way to speak to Any New Member, let-alone a Retired Marine, who Risked his Life to ensure that such-like "freedoms" Can even be exercised - Regardless if his 'delivery' was a bit 'terse' or not - the Totally-irrelevant to the OP comments / attacks were Inexcusable, Imo... )

..He really did Not respond, in-kind, in My observation. Actually, he responded far more graciously and rationally, than I would have, I'll say that, also.

Just a Shame, all the way around.

jd

 

[SheepDog]

I agree, it is a shame. It is what he chose to do.
I feel like he was responding in a way similar to a person who expected immediate acceptance without question. It was not a realistic expectation from an audience of people above the second grade. No one attacked his person or his ideas only that there were other ways that would work. I wish he had continued by ignoring the comments because I got some good info but needed more so I could check it out myself. The information is out there and it will take some time to get it all vetted. I have some starting points in schools so I am better off than before he spent a few moments with us. Let him know that I thank him for sharing.

 

[SoJer]

...No one attacked his person ... I wish he had continued by ignoring the comments ...

..Let him know that I thank him for sharing.

..But they Did, and quite unjustifiably-so, Imobservation.. Nonetheless, I agree with that second part, and, Lastly, I will do that. The Info in the OP is Solid.

.02
jd