Electrical Prob help?

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Peanut

Peanut

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About a decade ago I rewired my grandpa’s house where I live. Some of it done only 5 yrs ago. Earlier tonight I turned on the kitchen light. It didn’t light up. 2 bulbs in fixture, slim chance of both going bad at the same time but… replaced the bulbs, still no light.

1) I know which outlets are on the same circuit. They have power, sink light is on, fridge running. Clock on the microwave on…

2) I cycled/reset all the breakers for that side of the house anyway. No change to symptoms.

3) got my headlamp on, pushed up a few of the 2x4 drop in ceiling panels. Visually verified wiring paths. I saw nothing to indicated a problem of any kind. I also felt all the wiring I could reach, nothing unusual. No smell of a burned wire either. (all I could really smell was the pie I just took out of the oven).

So, there is an open circuit. Since wire doesn’t suddenly open… (unless there’s a short first which would have popped breakers)… That only leaves the switch itself, which feels completely normal.

I’ve never seen a light switch go bad. But there’s a first time for everything. This particular light switch was installed 50yrs ago. It came out of the old house after the tornado. The old house was built in 1954. So, the switch is about 70yrs old.

(Bigger problem, mom fell last week. Been to the doctor twice, aside from the usual complaints her arm hurts… took her to the hosp a third time last friday. They kept her over the weekend. This morning a mri showed a cracked vertebra in her neck. They put her in a hard collar and are sending her home in the morning. Really? Must not be serious.)

So, disabling the house electrical system isn’t an option, before or after she gets home. The house is a duplex and is wired separately, for the most part. Still, I don’t want to dig into a bunch of wiring for the next few days.

I have an open circuit, why? Could it be as simple as a bad switch? Thoughts?
 
Get your non contact tester and see where the power ends.
My guess is a bad switch or a lose wire at the switch.
I have seen both problems.
1702353004620.png
 
Peanut said:
About a decade ago I rewired my grandpa’s house where I live. Some of it done only 5 yrs ago. Earlier tonight I turned on the kitchen light. It didn’t light up. 2 bulbs in fixture, slim chance of both going bad at the same time but… replaced the bulbs, still no light.

1) I know which outlets are on the same circuit. They have power, sink light is on, fridge running. Clock on the microwave on…

2) I cycled/reset all the breakers for that side of the house anyway. No change to symptoms.

3) got my headlamp on, pushed up a few of the 2x4 drop in ceiling panels. Visually verified wiring paths. I saw nothing to indicated a problem of any kind. I also felt all the wiring I could reach, nothing unusual. No smell of a burned wire either. (all I could really smell was the pie I just took out of the oven).

So, there is an open circuit. Since wire doesn’t suddenly open… (unless there’s a short first which would have popped breakers)… That only leaves the switch itself, which feels completely normal.

I’ve never seen a light switch go bad. But there’s a first time for everything. This particular light switch was installed 50yrs ago. It came out of the old house after the tornado. The old house was built in 1954. So, the switch is about 70yrs old.

(Bigger problem, mom fell last week. Been to the doctor twice, aside from the usual complaints her arm hurts… took her to the hosp a third time last friday. They kept her over the weekend. This morning a mri showed a cracked vertebra in her neck. They put her in a hard collar and are sending her home in the morning. Really? Must not be serious.)

So, disabling the house electrical system isn’t an option, before or after she gets home. The house is a duplex and is wired separately, for the most part. Still, I don’t want to dig into a bunch of wiring for the next few days.

I have an open circuit, why? Could it be as simple as a bad switch? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Q1

Do you have a multimeter ?

Ben
 
backlash said:
Get your non contact tester and see where the power ends.
My guess is a bad switch or a lose wire at the switch.
I have seen both problems.
View attachment 121194
Click to expand...
I vote that it is the fixture itself.
Switches usually go flakey before they fail completely.
 
Neb said:
Measure the outputs of the switch.

Ben
Click to expand...

People will be here tomorrow. I'm not going to pull it till then, just to be safe.

The switch is the prime suspect but i have never seen a wall switch go bad. Not one, ever. I have seen a lot of switches go bad on catscans and mri's, very different switches.

Almost all of them in the house are at least 50yrs old. Back when they made them to last. Thinking about it... the kitchen light is probably the most used switch in the house.

My worry is that it's some bizarre problem hidden in a wall. I'll be happy if it's a switch. I think to be safe... When I go to bed I'll turn off the breaker for that circuit. I'll run an extension cord for the fridge.
 
I've seen wall switches go bad. Your meter can tell you if your switch works. My first thought was that the connection at the fixture had come loose. Grab the wire nut and pull on each wire in turn, then go to the next wire nut. Internal wiring of the fixture could be the issue. I'd first check for voltage at the switch and then at the wire nuts. It is also possible to be a loose wire in the breaker box. A simple but PITA project.
 
Does the fixture have the capacity to support the bulbs that are installed? i.e., don't put a 100 watt bulb in a socket that says "60 watts max". You can indeed burn up the wiring, and it usually happens over time, not instantaneously. This is not new knowledge to anyone here, but you can, over time, forget what the maximum wattage a fixture can handle is, and accidentally overload it. Especially if it's an ancient fixture.

I vote most likely is damaged fixture wiring. Second most likely is loose connection somewhere, probably at the switch. Third most likely is the switch itself has failed.
 
I had a switch fail in a bathroom just a couple years ago. It was almost 30yo. But is used multiple times per day. That is where I'd start. The fixture and wire nuts after that to chase the problem further. I'd lay money itll be one of the 3.
 
lonewolf said:
good that makes 2 of us, most people arent, especially this side of the pond, they go nuts if the power goes out for 30 minutes.
Click to expand...
Most people are lost without electricity. Myself, I make a mean fat wood torch and I'm pretty comfy using animal fat lanterns.

Hmm. I wonder if I could sell torches at Renaissance fairs?
 
Magus said:
Most people are lost without electricity. Myself, I make a mean fat wood torch and I'm pretty comfy using animal fat lanterns.

Hmm. I wonder if I could sell torches at Renaissance fairs?
Click to expand...
probably.
I lived off grid for 12 years and the only light I had was a storm lantern.
 
I lived 3 years on solar cells. I could live without the laptop and even flashlights, my main reason was heat in winter, kerosene and MAP stoves for the rest when it dipped into the teens. these old Winnebago have good insulation!
 
I thought about a small captain's stove, but the fire risk was too great, fortunately, this thing came with 100 gallons of natural gas, and it lasted most of the three years I was incognito. Lucky me, winters are mild here. I love the new LED lights, they let batteries last for years with proper use. have you ever used a solar charging flashlight? I'll never be without one again!
 
Magus said:
I thought about a small captain's stove, but the fire risk was too great, fortunately, this thing came with 100 gallons of natural gas, and it lasted most of the three years I was incognito. Lucky me, winters are mild here. I love the new LED lights, they let batteries last for years with proper use. have you ever used a solar charging flashlight? I'll never be without one again!
Click to expand...
we have mild winters here, mostly rain with a bit of frost.
I cant be bothered with anything that recharges, wont be any good post SHTF.
 
Thanks everyone, it was the switch. Simple resistance check for verification. I put in a new one, circuit works fine now.

A simple prob and fix but these days I find it useful to get other views and thoughts no matter how simple the issue. When I serviced equipment everyday it wasn’t needed. It seems for me, trouble shooting, like marksmanship, is a perishable skill. If I don’t touch a multimeter for a year to two I forget how the darn thing works. Never thought I’d say that after carrying one for decades but this is where I find myself.

Hearing everyone's input helps clarify the circuit and possible problems.

Haertig said:
Does the fixture have the capacity to support the bulbs that are installed? i.e., don't put a 100 watt bulb in a socket that says "60 watts max". You can indeed burn up the wiring, and it usually happens over time, not instantaneously. This is not new knowledge to anyone here, but you can, over time, forget what the maximum wattage a fixture can handle is, and accidentally overload it. Especially if it's an ancient fixture.

I vote most likely is damaged fixture wiring. Second most likely is loose connection somewhere, probably at the switch. Third most likely is the switch itself has failed.
Click to expand...

This is a good point, an issue I’ve seen before. With new low energy bulbs, led et al, it’s easy to forget and put in an old filament bulb. So, when I rewired my kitchen I designed all circuits for the highest energy use possible including outlets and light fixtures. 10 and 12 gauge wire is over kill yes, a breaker may trip from over current but my circuits will not fail. I left one old switch and one old outlet in the kitchen because replacing them would be a royal pain. Now that the switch failed from age… might as well replace the outlet too. I bought a new one this morning I’ll change the next time I have to clean behind the fridge.
 
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Peanut said:
If I don’t touch a multimeter for a year to two I forget how the darn thing works. Never thought I’d say that after carrying one for decades but this is where I find myself.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Me too. They sometimes try to put fewer and fewer knobs, buttons, etc. on the devices to make them look more sleek. And that just adds to the confusion of how to use the thing. "Oh, you want to measure voltage in the 100 - 300 volt range? Hold down button A while double tapping button B within 400 milliseconds of pressing button A. Continue holding button A down for an additional 3 seconds to lock in your new setting." Yeah, I'll surely remember that four years from now. Just give me an old style meter where I can figure out how to work it my looking at it.

If you don't already have one of these things below, buy one now. They are so much easier and safer to use than a voltmeter when you're checking if a circuit is hot overhead and things like that. Several people here recommended I get one back when I was replacing all my light switches with remote control digital ones a while back. They were 100% right in that recommendation. Get one!

Klein non-contact voltage tester

It doesn't have to be Klein brand or this specific model. Any of them are better than a voltmeter for quickly checking if a circuit is hot or not. But Klein is a very good and trusted brand. I like mine.
 
Haertig said:
Yeah. Me too. They sometimes try to put fewer and fewer knobs, buttons, etc. on the devices to make them look more sleek. And that just adds to the confusion of how to use the thing. "Oh, you want to measure voltage in the 100 - 300 volt range? Hold down button A while double tapping button B within 400 milliseconds of pressing button A. Continue holding button A down for an additional 3 seconds to lock in your new setting." Yeah, I'll surely remember that four years from now. Just give me an old style meter where I can figure out how to work it my looking at it.

If you don't already have one of these things below, buy one now. They are so much easier and safer to use than a voltmeter when you're checking if a circuit is hot overhead and things like that. Several people here recommended I get one back when I was replacing all my light switches with remote control digital ones a while back. They were 100% right in that recommendation. Get one!

Klein non-contact voltage tester

It doesn't have to be Klein brand or this specific model. Any of them are better than a voltmeter for quickly checking if a circuit is hot or not. But Klein is a very good and trusted brand. I like mine.
Click to expand...
We. An use those at work. But have to use a meter as well. The non contact testers are not considered 100% in verifying absence of voltage. They are handy for a quick test. But I don't trust my life on them.
 
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