Anybody have a brilliant idea for a car that is burning tons of oil?

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Aerindel

Aerindel

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A long shot....but desperate so I figured I would ask the hive mind.

2004 Subaru, 270K on it.

Blew the headgasket this summer, common enough thing for subarus.

I pulled the engine, replaced the the HG. Put it all back together. Now the engine, which used to only use about a quart of oil per 3000 miles, is now using a quart every 150-200 miles.

BUT IT RUNS GREAT! no loss of power, smooth idle, acts perfectly fine, except the occult oil loss.

Not leaking out anywhere, bone dry under the engine, has to be burning it, even though there is no visible smoke from the tailpipe.

Took off the exhaust manifold, no sign of oil leakage from the valves. Haven't checked the intake yet as that is a lot more work.

Poured a quart of marvel mystery oil in the crankcase. No change.

Replaced PCV valve, no change.

Tonight I ran about a cup of ATF through the intake. Do not know the result yet.

Any great tips? My theory is stuck oil control rings or something of that nature.


Complications to this is that this subi has the rare California engine, an EJ259, which I have not been able to find used. A rebuild is $4k, which is a lot of money for us.

Of course, a newer used car, is even more.
 
270K? I'd start saving for another engine. Have you checked on prices for a takeout. Japan has weird vehicle laws and they wind up junking relatively new cars. I once bought an engine for a Subaru of mine.
 
Caribou said:
270K? I'd start saving for another engine. Have you checked on prices for a takeout. Japan has weird vehicle laws and they wind up junking relatively new cars. I once bought an engine for a Subaru of mine.
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Yeah, like I said, its a rare California emissions vehicle. If it had a regular engine in it, a $1000 bucks and I could get one of those JDM engines and be fine, but back when I bought the car, I didn't realize its engine was 'rare'. I haven't found anything for sale but rebuilts.

Being preppers, we have the cash for a new engine...but it would be pretty painful to part with it, not to mention, I would have to pull and swap the engine again....which I've done a few times but don't enjoy.
 
Use thicker oil.
Dont be afraid to run a a 20w-50 in a turbo motor anyway or a high milage oil.
Could be the turbo seals leaking.
 
SoJer said:
Aaahh...Piston rings, themselves, age / condition? (Oil-rings, specifically) And, the 'crowns' / skirts? Assume you would have Seen any 'obvious wear', but.. Just thinking out loud, based on yer stated checks.. 🤔

jd
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Yes, all good questions but none of that was exposed during the headgasket job so unknown. Age is 18 years.

All I could see was the piston faces, and the bores, the bores looked 'fine'.
 
I would do a compression check and see if it is blowing past the rings in 1 cylinder. If you blew a head gasket one cylinder could have gotten water in it and caused a hydro-lock (because water is in-compressible) type event that damaged a piston's lower ring land or it's rings. Unfortunately, that would lead some major work on your part.
 
no idea...but my advice is to get it fixed sooner than later with all the things going on right now. hope its an easy and fast fix.
 
I would try using a diesel 15/40 oil in to , if there is a stuck ring the extra detergent will help to free it. , walmart 15w40 is cheap and if it is the same formula it is shell rottella t one formula or two,
 
Aerindel said:
Any great tips? My theory is stuck oil control rings or something of that nature.
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Have you checked for oil in your coolant? I saw no mention of that.
 
Also check your crank case vent system, the vapor from anti freeze intrusion will plug the mesh breathers and build crankcase pressure and that will really show up in a horizontal engine in oil consumption
 
Whats the difference between a California engine and a regular? Only the emissions should be different.

I mean, if the cheaper engine bolts right in.. can you do without the CA emissions?

Personally I have rarely rebuilt and put the same engine back in a vehicle. I usually take the opportunity to upgrade or change the engine to something different. This is when a factory service manual comes in handy. It'd have the details on CA emissions.
 
Aerindel said:
Not a turbo.

But not a bad idea either.

Running high milage 5-30 in it right now.
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I figured turbo since it was a Subie, even so thicker oil, 20w-50, is what I would use to see if it reduces use.
 
@ rick, while i agree with the added viscosity, I have had fairly good success with the higher detergent Diesel spec oils, But if a head gasket was involved, I am leaning more to restricted crankcase venting.
 
As I recall, adding a high detergent oil or other product could be a win or lose.
It can free up the parts you're hoping for but since it's going to clean everything, will you suffer any adverse effects elsewhere in the engine like other seals? On engines with high-miles, the "crud" caked inside may be what's keeping all the seals from leaking.
 
I once bought a car with a few miles on it. My first oil change I put my normal detergent oil in. It had been run on a non detergent oil. I had to replace the engine.
 
Sooooo, trying to hide away from the real world the past week or so I have been watching a variety of YouTube videos both for entertainment and for educational stuff. The guy who does the Project Farm channel is pretty intelligent and doesn't accept freebies or sponsorship from any of the suppliers so his advice and experiences are not swayed by money. Two videos that stand out in my mind that may be helpful for you are....
The first is switching to synthetic oil in an old engine and not have any leaks pop up.

and the second is using Restore to boost cylinder compression.

and a follow up on the Restore use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXIu3oo8z4c

Also I agree with @Rick and @havasu and @Tirediron and would also suggest using thicker oil, either the 15W40 or 20W50. Prior to manufacturers doing all they could to squeak out every ounce of horsepower from an engine they used to use thicker oils but they switched to the thin stuff to reduce parasitic loss due to having to push thicker oils. Every tiny bit of a gain is a gain so they use thin oil now. I knew most cars use 5W30 now but was surprised when the kids car called for 5W20. I would never use that in my car even if that is what was called for. Heck, when I first moved to Las Vegas my friend I used to ride ATV's with in the desert used to be friends with the SCORE crowd and they used 80W90 gear oil in the crankcase of the 4-wheeler and dirt bikes in the heat of the summer. I started using it in my old Honda 350X 3 wheeler and it ran great but damn that thing was hard to kick start when it was cold. :ghostly:

I also agree with @phideaux in that if it isn't blowing smoke out the tail pipe it is not burning it.

And, like @Peanut mentioned I am also curious if the California engine just has more crap bolted on to the same block as a non-California engine and you should be able to use the more affordable option if it has the bolt holes to mount your extra parts. Also, if you are not in California you might be able to do without the extra stuff but that may require research to learn how to quiet trouble codes due to removing parts the computer thinks it should have. But, you may have already done that research and you definitely know more about your car than I ever will so I am not doubting you, just tossing out something to consider.
 
@Neb that was awesome...that was one tough little car...i woulda had to fixed it.if it was that tough..whatever type car that was they need to get this guys video for a commercial...lol...it takes a bulldozer to kill our cars...roflmao

did you see guy in findland blew up his tesla over cost of replacement batteries?
 
I had a pickup that loss a quart of oil every 200 miles. No black exhaust, no oil in coolant, no engine miss, no puddle on garage floor. It was leaking the oil when it was running down the road from some place I couldn't find. So, what I did was never changed the oil (just the filter) and added a quart of used oil at every fuel refill. I had friends giving me their used oil.
 
Cabin Fever said:
I had a pickup that loss a quart of oil every 200 miles. No black exhaust, no oil in coolant, no engine miss, no puddle on garage floor. It was leaking the oil when it was running down the road from some place I couldn't find. So, what I did was never changed the oil (just the filter) and added a quart of used oil at every fuel refill. I had friends giving me their used oil.
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That was a popular solution back in the late 70's and early 80's. My neighbor would change the oil in his two good Camaros whenever he need more oil for his old Ford Pinto. He tired to get 3000 miles between oil changes and alternated between car one and car two, but when he ran out of drain oil for the Pinto he would do an oil change on a Camaro.
 
Try putting some SeaFoam in your oil. I had a friend who had a circa year 2000 Subaru hatchback that started using two quarts between oil changes. He ran SeaFoam through the oil and the consumption dropped to about half a quarter. Drove the car for at least another year after that with no problems...
 
That much oil is going somewhere, it doesn't vanish. Its either being burned, pouring into the coolant or leaking out of the block. Process of elimination... I've had two vehicles that went through that much oil, both were leaking oil through rear seal of the crank into the bell housing, looked like the tranny was leaking in both cases.
 
Its parked on clean snow lately so no possibility of a leak. Even a drop would show up, to say nothing of quarts.

All external seals are new (shafts, valve covers etc). Its probably the driest 18 year old engine in MT right now.

From what I gather, smoking from the tailpipe is a leftover concept from pre cat days and that 'modern' cars don't smoke even when losing oil because the cats eat it all up.

Crankcase venting issue was what I suspect at first too, but everything seems to work. New PVC valve, slightly negative crankcase pressure, etc.

The stupid cali engine uses a completely different intake, exhaust and wiring harness than the standard subi engine of that generation so the amount of work to get a different engine to play nice would not be worth it
 
If the car is 17 years old with 270k on it...perhaps replacement is the best option. I normally wouldn't say that, but 270,000 is a lot of miles for any vehicle, and you could spend that $4k on a new motor and then have to turn around and throw more good money at it for any number if things. Of course other finances are a factor, but I prefer to stay newer/lower miles if I can. I also drive at least 35k miles a year, with lots of 200+ mile trips, so your needs might be different from mine too. I have to have dependable vehicles for work, and they have to be tolerable for 12 hour drives if necessary...
 
Spikedriver said:
I have to have dependable vehicles for work, and they have to be tolerable for 12 hour drives if necessary...
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Same. Your vehicle is EVERYTHING up here. Your house can be crap, but your car has to run.

The problem is, I can't get into anything for $4k that is really any better. At least if I spend $4k on a new engine, I will have a new engine. $4k on a 'new' car and I will just have another one of about the same age with about the same miles on it.
 
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