DEF shortage?

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When they made these friggin trucks dependent upon another substance, it was a nightmare. It still is. And, it doesn't do anything to clean the air, especially when you consider the carbon impact of all the extra parts, labor, shipping, etc. of all the DEF and extra parts and wear and tear on engines. It's moronic that this was ever allowed to be implemented! It's not only the big rigs that will be affected by this, but all those who have newer pickup trucks too. We have lots of DEF in stock, but we don't have sensors. Hubs needs one now and can't get it. It's not a DEF sensor, but he still can't find one.

As if anyone needed even more reasons to stock up, eh?
 
Aklogcabin said:
I believe what we have is a shortage of letters. I have no idea what many of the acronyms folks use are.
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DEF = Diesel Exhaust Fluid
Some brainiac decided diesel engines needed to have this fluid injected into the hot exhaust stream to convert the diesel biproducts of nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide into Nitrogen, water, and carbon dioxide. It has a purpose, but it wont work if it isn't available.
 
INresponse said:
DEF = Diesel Exhaust Fluid
Some brainiac decided diesel engines needed to have this fluid injected into the hot exhaust stream to convert the diesel biproducts of nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide into Nitrogen, water, and carbon dioxide. It has a purpose, but it wont work if it isn't available.
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A good air filter and an engine that is tuned correctly. Along with good maintenance. Also works for reducing carbon emissions. Kinda hard to use an engine that won't run. And truckers are kinda important in our society for everything we need. They haul. With a diesel engine.
Maybe this electronic depending society has come full circle just like a pair of pants.
But then again I drive a 79 El Camino with a hot engine.
 
Aklogcabin said:
A good air filter and an engine that is tuned correctly. Along with good maintenance. Also works for reducing carbon emissions. Kinda hard to use an engine that won't run. And truckers are kinda important in our society for everything we need. They haul. With a diesel engine.
Maybe this electronic depending society has come full circle just like a pair of pants.
But then again I drive a 79 El Camino with a hot engine.
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There will be a time, or maybe it is here now and getting worse due to lack of supplies stuck on ships, where computer everything will destroy us one way or another. My dream vehicle is a late 70's era Suburban rebuilt with good 4 wheel drive parts and a computer free diesel engine and manual transmission and manual transfer case. It concerns me that a computer on a new car can make the vehicle worthless if it can't be replaced or repaired.
 
I have a 65 and two 73 fords. They don't even have electronic ignition. I have a stock of points, condensers, rotors, caps and wires. I have spark plugs, air and oil filters. I don't store gas so when the cars run dry I will use a bike or walk.
 
angie_nrs said:
When they made these friggin trucks dependent upon another substance, it was a nightmare. It still is. And, it doesn't do anything to clean the air, especially when you consider the carbon impact of all the extra parts, labor, shipping, etc. of all the DEF and extra parts and wear and tear on engines. It's moronic that this was ever allowed to be implemented! It's not only the big rigs that will be affected by this, but all those who have newer pickup trucks too. We have lots of DEF in stock, but we don't have sensors. Hubs needs one now and can't get it. It's not a DEF sensor, but he still can't find one.

As if anyone needed even more reasons to stock up, eh?
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Yes. Once upon a time I remember every semi going down the interstate had 2 black ribbons of smoke coming out of their pipes.
They all worked just fine, and nobody died. :thumbs:
DEF is just another "Californication" that took over the country. :(
It is not an essential for a truck to be able to run.
So, you can see the exhaust of a truck going down the road?... BFD!:mad:
 
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So I went and checked and the Engine Manufacturers could re-program the engine control computer to ignore the DEF sensor and get the trucks back on the road... but the EPA and CARB(Kalifornia) must approve the emergency code and then all of the vehicle would need to have their CPUs updated with the new code. So it could be done in a few weeks if approved, but there will also need to be some sort of provision to bring the trucks back into EPA/CARB compliance after the deed was done and supplies are back to NORMAL.

So all you need to do is convince the current administration and the AOC types in charge that there is an emergency and have them admit it in public.... Good luck with that.
 
UrbanHunter said:
So I went and checked and the Engine Manufacturers could re-program the engine control computer to ignore the DEF sensor and get the trucks back on the road... but the EPA and CARB(Kalifornia) must approve the emergency code and then all of the vehicle would need to have their CPUs updated with the new code. So it could be done in a few weeks if approved, but there will also need to be some sort of provision to bring the trucks back into EPA/CARB compliance after the deed was done and supplies are back to NORMAL.

So all you need to do is convince the current administration and the AOC types in charge that there is an emergency and have them admit it in public.... Good luck with that.
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"Approval" is nothing but politics. Skrew that!
You let a skilled bastid technician (like me) have 15 minutes with it and our laptop&cable, and we will end it's dependence/addiction to that stuff real quick!
We are the masters, not the machines! :waiting:
Their job is to haul freight, not to vote for Gavin! :mad:
 
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Sorry commiefornia, we've no pee in a bottle to put in our trucks. Therefore said machine will cease to operate. For 30 days minimum. Hopefully you packed a few sandwiches since you might be a tad hungry.
 
Have I got this right? Trucks don't need DEF to run, but they can't run without it because a gaggle of democrats in CA decided the world would be more controllable that way. Now those dead trucks can't deliver DEF to other dead trucks that really don't need it except for politics.

If you can see carbon it is large enough that it will settle out in a short time. A trucker friend of mine in CA and four other trucking companies held a town hall meeting over the solution caused by commercial trucks. This was several years ago when the issue was heating up. It was an all day thing with a long lunch hour.
The five trucking companies had hired a photographer for $25,000 who was known for his ability to photograph pollution and was a favourite of the environmentalists. The second half of the day was the photographer explaining how bad the pollution was the cars leaving the town hall due to improper maintenance and pointing out that the attendees were producing more pollution that most trucks. It got the greenies off their backs, but not for long.
 
The replacement tractor the manufacturer could provide after our lemon has a ton more computers and all the environmental stuff. We now have to have def in our tractor or it won’t run. I HATE IT. I feel like we got the raw end of a very bad deal all the way around on that tractor purchase. The reason we bought the tractor we did was because it didn’t have 90% of the junk on it this one does.
 
Double R said:
The replacement tractor the manufacturer could provide after our lemon has a ton more computers and all the environmental stuff. We now have to have def in our tractor or it won’t run. I HATE IT. I feel like we got the raw end of a very bad deal all the way around on that tractor purchase. The reason we bought the tractor we did was because it didn’t have 90% of the junk on it this one does.
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You do realize this sounds exactly the same as some parent saying:
"But my son must have his meth! gaah"
 
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Trucks never needed "def" to run. Studies in recent years have determined that the Urea, prime ingredient in "def" is killing off plants and insects along highways where used. The primary fatality is honeybees. Have we noticed a sharp decline in their populations? Why yes we have. Has this story been discussed in mainstream media? No, it has not. Instead, its attributed to farm chemicals, global warming, and a multitude of other reasons. Anything but the truth. There is a lot more of this discussion I simply wont waste the time on but it is out there for anyone willing to take the time to research it.
 
All of the California crap ideas is why my winch tractor has a fully mechanical engine, which under load runs cleaner than a EPA engine and uses far less fuel, and really likes winching dead epa trucks on the scissor neck. At least most dead trucks are new enough not not leak their air so I dont have to drag them on, cause I am sure not hooking up air lines on a highway
 
Guardian said:
Trucks never needed "def" to run. Studies in recent years have determined that the Urea, prime ingredient in "def" is killing off plants and insects along highways where used. The primary fatality is honeybees. Have we noticed a sharp decline in their populations? Why yes we have. Has this story been discussed in mainstream media? No, it has not. Instead, its attributed to farm chemicals, global warming, and a multitude of other reasons. Anything but the truth. There is a lot more of this discussion I simply wont waste the time on but it is out there for anyone willing to take the time to research it.
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Yes. And don't forget to flush your 'low-flow-toilet' twice if you want 💩 to disappear:thumbs:.
Using it will make more water suddenly appear in California!:D
They sold us that too.:mad:
And buy a wind turbine!!!
It will help save their billion-dollar beach resorts from certain death!:woo hoo:
 
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To paraphrase Ronald Reagen,
"California is not the answer to our problems,
California is the problem."

How many laws started in California that were forced on the rest of the country? Far too many. As far as computer emission crap...... when I moved to Las Vegas with my 1972 Chevrolet C-10 with the 350 V-8 it passed their annual emission tests every year without any problems and each year the mechanic was impressed at how clean the exhaust was for such an old vehicle. He kept telling me it was cleaner than many of the new cars that came through. When I replaced the original engine with a high performance Chevrolet crate engine it still passed the annual emission with very low emissions, and it still had a 4 barrel carburator and it did not have a catalytic converter. The engine just ran clean.

Federal emission laws? Follow the money to the inventors of the high tech BS, and their investors.
 
INresponse said:
To paraphrase Ronald Reagen,
"California is not the answer to our problems,
California is the problem."

How many laws started in California that were forced on the rest of the country? Far too many. As far as computer emission crap...... when I moved to Las Vegas with my 1972 Chevrolet C-10 with the 350 V-8 it passed their annual emission tests every year without any problems and each year the mechanic was impressed at how clean the exhaust was for such an old vehicle. He kept telling me it was cleaner than many of the new cars that came through. When I replaced the original engine with a high performance Chevrolet crate engine it still passed the annual emission with very low emissions, and it still had a 4 barrel carburator and it did not have a catalytic converter. The engine just ran clean.

Federal emission laws? Follow the money to the inventors of the high tech BS, and their investors.
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The emissions tests are based on the year the vehicle was built so it is easy for a 72 truck to meet it's emissions test.... The folks at CARB and the EPA believe that if you can measure it you need to remove it, so every chance they get they pass laws to reduce emissions by 90% of what they can measure.. Scientists and engineers keep inventing new gadgets to meet the new emissions laws but they also make new gadgets to measure the emissions at a finer scale that the CARB and EPA folks use to further regulate the emissions.

Think of it like this: You can live on $1000, so they make you remove 90% so now you are trying to make do with $100, but they can measure $100 so they regulate you down by another 90% so you have to make $10 work, But now they can measure $1s so they tell you to reduce it by 90% a you have 10 cents... They have been doing this since 1969, today it is difficult to measure the emissions because the exhaust is cleaner than the outside air in most cities...
 
i am going to say something and yall better not jump on me...lol...you see this bullcrap going on...who thinks we can really fight a real honest to goodness war when supply lines are truly and really disrupted?

i have zero confidence of these people stepping up to plate in a critical situation...i can see critical military supplies sitting on side of road and guy calling in i have no def to continue trip...good lord people..we use to build stuff that would go after parts broke off on so many levels...how about battle ship had t be towed in over a solenoid controlling rudder...dear lord we are so stupid....stupid should hurt and we all might be hurting in a real situation.


happiness is something that works and functions daily and can be fixed easily and cheaply !
 
Supervisor42 said:
Yes. Once upon a time I remember every semi going down the interstate had 2 black ribbons of smoke coming out of their pipes.
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Yup, it's ALL about optics. If you can't SEE the emissions, then it's clean. :rolleyes:

The trucks can be 'deleted' to no longer need the DEF, but it's not an easy task. We had a truck deleted and it ran great afterwards, BUT if you had any problems at all (even if it wasn't related to the engine) you couldn't take it in to a licenced shop to have work done. They wouldn't touch it b/c if they were inspected while your truck was in their shop, they got a big fine and even risked their shop being shut down. It'll also decrease the resale value of the truck b/c when you tell someone it is deleted, they will likely understand that they also can't take the truck in for repair.

From my understanding, the DEF fiasco is very much like the wind turbine. When you factor in all the new parts, labor, shipping, DEF manufacture, etc., it does not save carbon emissions. In fact, it's quite the opposite. They never look long term at any of these 'green' ideas. Also when you consider that all those emissions are forced back through the system in the truck to 'clean' it, it mucks up the engines and decreases their longevity. Gee, I wonder how much it costs and how many carbon emissions are needed to produce or rebuild a whole new engine? That's a retorical question......I already know how much money it costs.....don't ask me how I know.:mad:
 
UrbanHunter said:
The emissions tests are based on the year the vehicle was built so it is easy for a 72 truck to meet it's emissions test....
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It was '92 when I moved to Vegas when the first mechanic doing the test told me the truck was clean and meeting standards for the late '80's cars. He was an older guy maybe in his late 50's (I was 24) and he earned my trust right away, I think I took the truck there once for a repair because I couldn't do the work in the apartment parking lot. But, when I moved there I had a Holley Projection fuel injection on the truck that had manual adjustment knobs to tune the fuel mixture. It ran great, and really woke up the throttle response but it didn't pass emission the first time. He wasn't familiar with the new fangled stuff but said if it was a carburetor he would need to richen it up because the test was showing it was too lean. While connected to the SMOG test machine I turned the dial a small bit and he said stop. That was when it passed with very low emissions. I went there 3 years in a row and each year he was surprised the old engine was running so clean. It's too long for me to remember numbers but somewhere I have the printout because it showed how much below requirements the engine ran. I kept the printouts for the new crate motor too, somewhere. I am just glad I moved out of Vegas and I don't have to deal with that stuff anymore.
Sorry, been rambling on a bit off topic. just mentioning that older vehicles can run clean if properly maintained.
 
INresponse said:
It was '92 when I moved to Vegas when the first mechanic doing the test told me the truck was clean and meeting standards for the late '80's cars. He was an older guy maybe in his late 50's (I was 24) and he earned my trust right away, I think I took the truck there once for a repair because I couldn't do the work in the apartment parking lot. But, when I moved there I had a Holley Projection fuel injection on the truck that had manual adjustment knobs to tune the fuel mixture. It ran great, and really woke up the throttle response but it didn't pass emission the first time. He wasn't familiar with the new fangled stuff but said if it was a carburetor he would need to richen it up because the test was showing it was too lean. While connected to the SMOG test machine I turned the dial a small bit and he said stop. That was when it passed with very low emissions. I went there 3 years in a row and each year he was surprised the old engine was running so clean. It's too long for me to remember numbers but somewhere I have the printout because it showed how much below requirements the engine ran. I kept the printouts for the new crate motor too, somewhere. I am just glad I moved out of Vegas and I don't have to deal with that stuff anymore.
Sorry, been rambling on a bit off topic. just mentioning that older vehicles can run clean if properly maintained.
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Back when I worked, we did emissions testing on a lot of propane-powered equipment that ran indoors using a sophisticated 3-gas analyser that measured NO, CO, and HC.
After a while, it became obvious that it wasn't really needed.
Either the fuel system was "right", or it was no secret to anyone because it stunk the whole place up.gaah
The analyser was only only useful to tell us 'how much' CO it was putting out.
Fixing them was easy. :thumbs:
 
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