Give it some thought...what do you think is the most likely "trigger" for SHTF??

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I'm right there with you Caribou!
I firmly believe that we live as long as we want to - giving up is the only way to die. I watched it happen to my niece, my uncle, and my dad. When mom died she knew that she had done a good job of raising us and that she wanted to be with her husband. She died peacefully surrounded by family.
 
pandemic like the bubonic plague or ebola would wipe out a lot of people, economic collapse would follow.
dengue is showing to be fairly active this year so far and darn near all over the planet with exception to the most northern hemispheres. I saw yesterday tho new reports of it in Italy and France I think?? around that region anyways..
And... Ebola seems to be fairly out of control in Africa...Uganda has cases of the spread and one confirmed in S. Africa. Probably only a matter of weeks (?) before we see it popping up all over.
 
pandemics can get from one side of the planet to the other within 24-26 hours with our rapid transport systems, the cities will get infected first because of their close proximity to airports and sea ports.
 
lately, Ive been keeping tabs of what I get locally but more importantly Where whatever it is I purchase comes from. My thoughts following this; is the whole what if question. What if a crazy cootie or weaponized one (of which we wouldn't know but ??) gets over our borders. Some can stay on surfaces of objects for days, some only minutes or hours. The kind that can for days are spooky when I think, money, mail, online orders...
Just think someday if folks have to decide whether not picking up the mail and letting it bake in the mail box for a week or so just might save your life because someone in a processing center just sneezed their ebola laden goo on it in Portland and it is delivered to you in a day or two.
Just a thought...
If I had to choose, I'd pick a CME event to throw us into a SHTF. No one really to blaim, our Sun sneezed a whopper snotty and poof..were all back into the stone ages tech wise. Anyone left after the initial weeks of pucker moments in chaos gets to start over and hopefully have the collective wisdom to do society over better because..United We Stand but without all the bull this time...
 
It is easy to prevent damage from a solar EMP, All they have to do is turn the switch that opens all the circuits. If they shut the grid down the EMP is totally harmless.
They have at a minimum, 36 hours advanced notice which is plenty of time. Hospitals and emergency support can go on a 72 hour backup generator and then restart the grid.
Whether the controllers will decide to shut the grid down is problematic due to lost income. It is still immensely better than 20 years without a grid, but then I am not a politician.
 
SD, we know about when a CME is expected to hit. Say, for example, we shut down the grid 6 hours before it hits, how long might it be before it starts up again? If I flip the main breaker and remove my home from the grid that will help protect my home, but will it help protect the transformer that supplies my home?
 
No, it won't do either. Sadly homes and the appliances within them are extremely unlikely to be affected by any solar EMP event. The long transmission lines have to be disconnected from the generators and large transformers at the major sub-stations. Wires that run for a few blocks before turning a 90 degree angle are not in much danger and either are the transformers at the poles, If the power lines are open circuited then current can't flow through them and they won't melt or burn. If the lines that run for miles connecting a generator to a transformer are connected to those devices then current will flow through the wires and the connected devices. Melting or burning the interior windings just before the wires themselves ignite or melt.
with the solar observatories that we have we will know exactly when it will hit and an approximate duration of the event. We could also wait for the lights in the sky to retreat back to the poles and then turn the power back on. The widespread auroras are the best indicator that the event is ongoing.
 
Pandemic illnesses are classed as a geometric acceleration of infections over a period of time where the illness has no treatment or is an unknown.
You get 1 person, then two, then four then 16 then 250 and you have a pandemic.
If it is fatal in just 50% of the cases there are a lot of dead people walking around that don't know they are spreading it and that they are dying.
Your best alternative is to stay away from people who have been in an area of infection. Stay indoors and if symptoms appear post it on the outside of doors and windows.

Good advice, SheepDog! Self-quarantine is always a good thing in a pandemic situation!

Please know that the disease does not have to be unknown or have no treatment to be considered a pandemic. An example of that is flu- there are treatments available, but in the event that the flu spread from continent to continent and infected large numbers of people, it is a pandemic! If pandemics were only spread using your numbers (1 infected becoming 2, then 2 becoming 4, etc), pandemics would be a lot easier to control. Unfortunately, though, the diseases that make it to pandemic status have a high attack rate (meaning the speed of spread in a susceptible population). They also tend to have a higher reproductive rate. That means the ill patient infects more than just one other person. Even if the disease causing the pandemic is treatable, with a high reproductive rate, the sheer number of people becoming ill would tax resources greatly, eventually overwhelming the system. When I wrote my organization's pandemic plan, I had to take into consideration things like loss of infrastructure due to people being too sick to come run the power plants, water systems, sewers, etc. I had to consider the loss of food supplies due to not enough available well people to transport supplies. Even the healthcare system is subject to losses of personnel due to illness..... not to mention inability to restock whatever drugs and supplies were necessary to treat patients.

I am not particularly worried about bubonic plague. It is endemic to my area (Arizona), found mostly in prairie dogs and other rodents, and is spread by fleas. With bubonic plague, the bacteria (Yersinia pestis) invades the body's lymphatic system, causing lumps called buboes. The disease is treatable with antibiotics and supportive measures. Much more worrisome is septicemic plague and pneumonic plague- in septicemic plague, the Y. pestis bacteria gets into the blood stream and can cause massive organ failure due to sepsis. It is treatable, but will consume a lot of resources. Pneumonic plague is also pretty serious, as the Y. pestis invades the lungs. Again, treatable, but these people may wind up on ventilators and have impaired lung function if and when they recover.

I believe that a massive pandemic is just waiting to happen, and that our porous border will help facilitate that. Consider Ebola. The incubation period is anywhere from 2 to 21 days with the average being 8-10 days. So, if a susceptible person has an exposure to Ebola and in fact becomes infected, it can be up to 21 days before symptoms are apparent. The person is theoretically not contagious until symptoms appear, but initial symptoms are consistent with other diseases such as flu. How many of us wake up with a fever, headache, fatigue, diarrhea or stomach ache, and go to work anyway, planning to power through because it's just "a touch of the flu" or something we ate? Imagine someone in the very early stages of showing Ebola symptoms, walking around Walmart on a Saturday morning. It is supposedly spread by contact with blood and body fluids or through droplets (although I've read studies that give me reason to believe it may also be airborne to a degree). That one person could infect hundreds of people before major symptoms such as hemorrhage begin to show.

Other than avoiding Walmart, what can we do? Hand hygiene ranks at the top of the list. Being prepared to self-isolate for at least 2 months (or longer, depending on the disease and how it is spread) is another viable strategy. Having a good stock of medical grade gloves (non-sterile nitrile gloves would be my preference, as I think nitrile is better than vinyl) and masks would be another good thing. I would also recommend keeping a stock of disinfectants and disinfectant wipes available.
 
VJ, You know that that article is from 2012, right?
We are currently entering a solar minimum and the forecast is that the sun is going to be less active than "normal" minimums.
NASA said over a month ago that they are expecting a global cooling period because of the lower output of the sun in conjunction with higher heat radiating into space from the upper atmosphere.
They also said that nobody knows for sure because we don't understand all the complexities of the climate control system on earth.
Big flares and CME have been seen during solar minimums before so it could still be an event to watch for but it is less likely.
 
Dr.Prepper,
I am glad that you helped clarify the topic of pandemics. Your background means a lot to me and I hope to others here.
Staying away from groups of people would not be hard for me because I tend to stay away from the big stores and do most of my buying at small locally owned stores.
On the topic of gloves, masks and wipes; I use nitrile gloves and have boxes of them in the shop. I also have dust masks in inventory. I use liquid dish soap to wash my hands and stay away from hand wipes. Are hand wipes really effective? Don't most of them just combine alcohol with a detergent of some kind? I know that alcohol requires - 20 minutes of contact?? - to be an effective anti-bacterial agent. Most people don't allow that length of time. I wash my hands starting with cool water and dish soap while the water temperature get to hot. I learned to use cold water to wash off metal dust and particulates and follow that with hot water and more soap for a final clean and rinse. I am talking about washing each finger the backs and palms followed by the wrists and forearms - like a surgeon only I don't always use a brush.
Years of being a mechanic, welder, and caster has taught me to be meticulous in cleaning my hands.
Your views on this would be welcome.
 
VJ, You know that that article is from 2012, right?
We are currently entering a solar minimum and the forecast is that the sun is going to be less active than "normal" minimums.
NASA said over a month ago that they are expecting a global cooling period because of the lower output of the sun in conjunction with higher heat radiating into space from the upper atmosphere.
They also said that nobody knows for sure because we don't understand all the complexities of the climate control system on earth.
Big flares and CME have been seen during solar minimums before so it could still be an event to watch for but it is less likely.

Yeah, but the pundits are predicting one in 2020.
 
Well, 2020 will be at near complete minimum for solar activity and NASA has already had a full month without any significant sun spots.
For a big flare or CME to happen there has to be a fairly large sun spot. You can stay up to date on activity HERE. Space weather is fed the latest data from the solar observation satellites.
 
Dr.Prepper,
I am glad that you helped clarify the topic of pandemics. Your background means a lot to me and I hope to others here.
Staying away from groups of people would not be hard for me because I tend to stay away from the big stores and do most of my buying at small locally owned stores.
On the topic of gloves, masks and wipes; I use nitrile gloves and have boxes of them in the shop. I also have dust masks in inventory. I use liquid dish soap to wash my hands and stay away from hand wipes. Are hand wipes really effective? Don't most of them just combine alcohol with a detergent of some kind? I know that alcohol requires - 20 minutes of contact?? - to be an effective anti-bacterial agent. Most people don't allow that length of time. I wash my hands starting with cool water and dish soap while the water temperature get to hot. I learned to use cold water to wash off metal dust and particulates and follow that with hot water and more soap for a final clean and rinse. I am talking about washing each finger the backs and palms followed by the wrists and forearms - like a surgeon only I don't always use a brush.
Years of being a mechanic, welder, and caster has taught me to be meticulous in cleaning my hands.
Your views on this would be welcome.

Hand sanitizer made with at least 60% alcohol gel is an efficient way to kill most germs on your hands. It only takes 15-20 seconds to dry, and as long as you've got good coverage of the skin of your hands and wrists, you should be relatively free of pathogens. You should use soap and water after every 5 or 6 times using the gel to keep any residue from building up on your skin. As I tell my students, alcohol gel kills the bugs, but it doesn't take away their little dead bodies, so you need soap and water to do that. Soap doesn't kill germs, but it keeps them from sticking to your skin, and when you use soap, friction and running water, the germs get flushed down the drain. By the way, the water doesn't need to be hot, just running in order to be effective.

I buy hand sanitizer by the half gallon in Sams Club. Its not terribly expensive, and I like to keep a lot on hand. There are brands of sanitizer out there that are alcohol free, but I won't use them or recommend them. I don't like hand wipes (like wet ones) unless it is for getting the "stink" off, or for refreshing. I do like disinfectant wipes for cleaning surfaces. I prefer oxivir TB (this is an accelerated hydrogen peroxide product and has only a one minute kill time) but really any product that is EPA approved and lists the pathogens for which it is effective against. Bleach wipes are good to have for cleaning if people are sick with diarrheal illnesses that could be C diff. Otherwise, most other things don't need bleach to sanitize them, and bleach can be really harsh on surfaces. (OK, not talking about sanitizing water - DO NOT use other cleaning products or disinfectants to sanitize drinking water!!!!!!!!!)

Being meticulous in cleaning your hands may just save your life some day!
 
Well, 2020 will be at near complete minimum for solar activity and NASA has already had a full month without any significant sun spots.
For a big flare or CME to happen there has to be a fairly large sun spot. You can stay up to date on activity HERE. Space weather is fed the latest data from the solar observation satellites.

Thanks for the link, Sheepdog. Space weather may be a welcome rest-break from all the people-weather we are daily subjected to.
 
We all know there are many bubbles that could pop at any given time, but what is the MOST LIKELY event that would trigger a full-blown SHTF ? My own personal opinion is economic collapse, with a socio-political civil war running a close second place.

Not sure of what the actual event will be but I know who will be responsible and why it will come about, as according to the Bible. It is very complex to understand but yet easy and eye opening to understand if you study it out, and I know most will probably laugh at me. The beast power as identified in the Bible, A church, A power and its own sovereign power, one which even admits to the things they have done, all the same. In my own defense before you criticize what I say I want you to look up online the Jesuit oath, this is there ideology not my words. Read how they take control of country's (the goal is all countries) in secret and like two brothers playing a game pit one country against another while conniving at the same table, think world wars, and it only gets worse. This is prophecy from the Bible, start in Daniel and Revelations. The harlot they speak of is a women, in prophesy a woman is a church. A harlot is an apostate church. The dragon, Rome, even had dragons on their shields. The dragon gave the harlot her seat, like a county seat, power. Would think to change times and laws, they changed the Sabbath to Sunday,both a time and law and gladly admit to it, are currently pushing for Sunday law and a one world religion, lead by guess who. It came from the city of seven hills, Rome, and in all there are I think 13 identifying marks to prove who the beast power is. The Universal Church. And a great big NO, I do not hate Catholics.
And, If your looking for validity of the Bible read in Daniel 2 about Nebuchadnezzar's dream and pay close attention to what the statue represents, the kingdoms who proceeded to conquer Babylon and on to the great dragon Rome. Then look at history and it all lines up,Media and Persia, Grecia, Dan8:20,21 are the same as the statue in the dream. All written way before it happened and the Bible is full of this sort of thing, so we are to have faith but not blind faith.
Sorry for such a long post, God bless
 
Not sure of what the actual event will be but I know who will be responsible and why it will come about, as according to the Bible. It is very complex to understand but yet easy and eye opening to understand if you study it out, and I know most will probably laugh at me. The beast power as identified in the Bible, A church, A power and its own sovereign power, one which even admits to the things they have done, all the same. In my own defense before you criticize what I say I want you to look up online the Jesuit oath, this is there ideology not my words. Read how they take control of country's (the goal is all countries) in secret and like two brothers playing a game pit one country against another while conniving at the same table, think world wars, and it only gets worse. This is prophecy from the Bible, start in Daniel and Revelations. The harlot they speak of is a women, in prophesy a woman is a church. A harlot is an apostate church. The dragon, Rome, even had dragons on their shields. The dragon gave the harlot her seat, like a county seat, power. Would think to change times and laws, they changed the Sabbath to Sunday,both a time and law and gladly admit to it, are currently pushing for Sunday law and a one world religion, lead by guess who. It came from the city of seven hills, Rome, and in all there are I think 13 identifying marks to prove who the beast power is. The Universal Church. And a great big NO, I do not hate Catholics.
And, If your looking for validity of the Bible read in Daniel 2 about Nebuchadnezzar's dream and pay close attention to what the statue represents, the kingdoms who proceeded to conquer Babylon and on to the great dragon Rome. Then look at history and it all lines up,Media and Persia, Grecia, Dan8:20,21 are the same as the statue in the dream. All written way before it happened and the Bible is full of this sort of thing, so we are to have faith but not blind faith.
Sorry for such a long post, God bless

I am not a religious person, but I can still identify with what you are saying, and if ever there was a "flash point," it is the Middle East!! That is one geographic area where truly "anything could happen on any given day."
 

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