Quick Clot.......gauze or the powder or "WHAT"

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Sourdough

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Yes I fully understand there are down sides to the use of quick clot type stuff. But sometimes it is the best option. Especially if alone, can't fully reach the damaged part, and have multiple substantial injuries.
 

Alaskajohn

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Yes I fully understand there are down sides to the use of quick clot type stuff. But sometimes it is the best option. Especially if alone, can't fully reach the damaged part, and have multiple substantial injuries.
Stuff like this is in my backpack:


 

Peanut

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I'd go with "What"... Yarrow, its been used for 1000's of years to stop bleeding. Its native to Alaska, Canada and each of the lower 48. It grows wild as far north as the arctic circle around the world. It's easy to cultivate, can grow it in a pot as a house plant. Its a nitrogen fixer so great in your garden.

Not only does it stop bleeding, it helps with pain and the healing process of even serious wounds. It helps with blood pressure and blood sugar issues and a host of other health problems. Since I grow some on my porch I use it if I cut myself shaving!

I have it in tincture form in my medical kit so I can take it internally. It'll stop bleeding even if you can't reach a wound. If needed I could soak a bandage with tincture to cover a wound. Also, I would pack a wound using fresh herb if I had it handy. It's the first thing I would reach for if seriously cut or wounded and bleeding. Then I would seek medical attention at an ER for stitches.

I posted about it here... Yarrow
 
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Bacpacker

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I’ll be honest I had to look up “yarrow” I have a lot growing around my place and had no idea what it was. If you ever find yourself up my way peanut I still want to walk with you threw my property and see what all I really have
I'd second that Bluetick. Peanut would be more than welcome to cruise my place and point out all the stuff I've been cutting and wasting
 

Hardcalibres

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Yes I fully understand there are down sides to the use of quick clot type stuff. But sometimes it is the best option. Especially if alone, can't fully reach the damaged part, and have multiple substantial injuries.
The gauze is better than the powder - particularly for a deep wound that has created a bit of a cavity. The powder was just too difficult to control where it went after if came out of the packet.

The gauze comes out of the pack like a conventional bandage. You then feed the gauze into the cavity by folding it back and forth upon the gauze already in there. Retain/insert each layer with the end of your finger until you have the whole thing in there (or at least as much as you can fit). Then put conventional gauze or a conventional wound pad/dressing (like an Israeli bandage) over the top and apply pressure. If it is a bad bleeder (and on a limb) then use a CAT as well.

 

Amish Heart

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Guaze is better. The powder is hard to clean out. Although I'd use it if I had to. Have both. I use skin glue often enough. I've glued two fingertips back on and that healed fine. Also superglue. I've glued on a tooth veneer with superglue. This drives one of our daughters nuts. I've made her help.
 

Sourdough

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The gauze is better than the powder - particularly for a deep wound that has created a bit of a cavity. The powder was just too difficult to control where it went after if came out of the packet.

The gauze comes out of the pack like a conventional bandage. You then feed the gauze into the cavity by folding it back and forth upon the gauze already in there. Retain/insert each layer with the end of your finger until you have the whole thing in there (or at least as much as you can fit). Then put conventional gauze or a conventional wound pad/dressing (like an Israeli bandage) over the top and apply pressure. If it is a bad bleeder (and on a limb) then use a CAT as well.

Thanks for a great helpful post......better yet it is compelling and convincing. So I just ordered a bunch.

One of the few videos that employed crystal clear enunciation. I watched the video three times.

I have simply got to get much more serious about this. As much as I dislike watching You-tube videos.........the one part of this in which I am badly flawed, is how to do first aid to "Self" in locations of the body that one thinks they "can't" stop bleeding. This is when alone in the wilderness. It is one thing if you have both hands fully functional and are attempting to stop bleeding on a your calf or foot. It is a quandary to me of dealing with having had your shoulder chewed on, and reaching my back, or buttocks.
 
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Aerindel

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Guaze is better. The powder is hard to clean out. Although I'd use it if I had to. Have both. I use skin glue often enough. I've glued two fingertips back on and that healed fine. Also superglue. I've glued on a tooth veneer with superglue. This drives one of our daughters nuts. I've made her help.
Yep. This is what they said to at the medical conferences I've been to. The've done tests on live pigs and gauze works better and is 1/10th the cost.
 

Peanut

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I have simply got to get much more serious about this. As much as I dislike watching You-tube videos.........the one part of this in which I am badly flawed, is how to do first aid to "Self" in locations of the body that one thinks they "can't" stop bleeding. This is when alone in the wilderness.
I don't know about Alaska but here in the southeast "Wilderness Emergency Medicine" classes are sometimes available. There are "certifications" available in this area of training for law enforcement and medics etc.

I took one of these from a man named Sam Coffman. I posted his book in the library. He was a special forces medic for more than a decade (80's) then became a herbalist. His class on wilderness emergency medicine is great. The core of his class is straight up conventional medicine. But... because he teaches plant medicine, has a school in San Antonio TX, he can blend the two disciplines.

Here is his school if you wish to contact him, maybe he knows of a similar class near you...

Home - The Human Path He also has military type classes like Long Range Reconnaissance and Scout training.

His book is excellent. It's not written like a typical book on herbal medicine. His military training comes through in how he approaches plant medicine. Before missions special forces medics are taught "Ditch Medicine" for a mission location. In case their medical gear is lost or destroyed they are taught local plants for that area and how to use them to treat major injury or wounds, infections etc.

Here is where I posted his book in our library...

 

Hardcalibres

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The other factor in the granules vs gauze debate is this:

The first Quikclot product was the granules.

That product used Zeolite as the active ingredient - and the reaction with blood was strongly exothermic - resulting in burns on some patients.

As of 2012, Quikclot used a new active ingredient - Kaolin - which is a natural clay (used to make "China" plates are stuff). The Kaolin does not make any heat when exposed to blood and in gauze works really well (arguably better than the granules ever did).

The other thing you won't find Quikclot stating is this: Kaolin is very chemically stable - so any Quikclot Gauze you find that is sealed (but out of marked use by date) is probably still fine to use. The shelf life is likely to be a lot longer than the five years they tell the military.


Regarding self treatment - consider some of this:


The inject-able granules of Celox (which are not Zeolite and are not exothermic), may be an easier way to apply hemostat agent to hard to get places on your own. Celox is often cheaper than Quikclot - but it is used by big militaries like the UK - so it is well proven.

I carry both Quikclot and Celox - they sort of do different jobs.
 

Sourdough

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I am actually surprised at how inexpensive this product is.
 

Sourdough

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OK.......A good big Bear bite that does not tear a chunk of flesh off, just makes a hole (actually two to maybe four holes per bite) about one inch in diameter and inch and half deep, not squirting blood, but steady blood flow leakage. The hole will likely close down to half inch as tooth is released.
Question: try to pack the hole with this gauze or just wrap and apply compression and pray.....???
 

Alaskajohn

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OK.......A good big Bear bite that does not tear a chunk of flesh off, just makes a hole (actually two to maybe four holes per bite) about one inch in diameter and inch and half deep, not squirting blood, but steady blood flow leakage. The hole will likely close down to half inch as tooth is released.
Question: try to pack the hole with this gauze or just wrap and apply compression and pray.....???
We were trained to pack the wound as much as you can and use any excess as a pressure dressing. Hold compression for until the bleeding stops or minimal 3 minutes. Then use a standard pressure dressing to wrap the quick clot cause to maintain pressure on the wound. Weather or not a wound needs the quick clot cause is depending on the extent of the bleeding. If you can stop the bleeding with normal compression, then normal compression would work fine.
 

Bacpacker

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Good info AJ. Thanks
I failed to mention I have several packets of gauze and powder stashed in different places. From what I have read though the powder is more of a last resort kinda things. When you use it, even though it works well, medical folks have to clean it out before closing the wound which can cause a lot of problems...and pain. Thats why I went strickly to buying gauze.
 

Sourdough

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We were trained to pack the wound as much as you can and use any excess as a pressure dressing. Hold compression for until the bleeding stops or minimal 3 minutes. Then use a standard pressure dressing to wrap the quick clot cause to maintain pressure on the wound. Weather or not a wound needs the quick clot cause is depending on the extent of the bleeding. If you can stop the bleeding with normal compression, then normal compression would work fine.
I am just not very sure I can "Man-up" to stuffing gauze in bear bite holes in MY body.
 

Alaskajohn

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I am just not very sure I can "Man-up" to stuffing gauze in bear bite holes in MY body.
I get it! My wife had to stuff my wound a month or so ago. She earned her keep! I am good as new, by the way. But I do have a nice new trophy scar on my leg.
 

Aerindel

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OK.......A good big Bear bite that does not tear a chunk of flesh off, just makes a hole (actually two to maybe four holes per bite) about one inch in diameter and inch and half deep, not squirting blood, but steady blood flow leakage. The hole will likely close down to half inch as tooth is released.
Question: try to pack the hole with this gauze or just wrap and apply compression and pray.....???
Wrap and apply pressure. You don't even need to pray. Your bleeding will probably stop within ten minutes. Packing is not needed. Just good, firm pressure.

The biggest mistake people usually make in bleeding control is not enough pressure, and removing bandages when they are soaked in blood. The purpose of gauze is to make a place for blood to clot. If you keep removing it, you keep 'reseting' the wound. Instead, if gauze keeps soaking through, apply more gauze, and more pressure ontop of what you have.

IF that wound is as described.

This is the thing about bleeding. If a large artery is torn, nothing but surgery or a tourniquet will stop it. If anything but a larger artery is damaged, bleeding won't be a big issue if you can apply basic first aid.

TV shows people as bags of blood....because that looks nice and 'gory' on TV.

Something I learned as an EMT is that people are surprisingly 'dry' on the inside. I have seen massive wounds, with bones sticking out...and the person was only barely dripping blood. If untreated they would have certainly died within a day or two, but not from blood loss, because despite massive tissue damage, no large arteries where involved. On the other hand, get a 1/4 inch hole in your descending aorta from a weak vessel wall, and you can bleed to death internally in a few minutes without losing a drop of blood outside your body.

Simple wounds to skin or muscle are easily treated.

Things like gunshot wounds that penetrate organs etc, are not and are hard to survive if you cannot get surgery quickly.
 

Aerindel

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Something to remember, is that medicine is not THAT different from any other industry. If you want to make money, you have to find ways to sell new products to people, EVEN if there is nothing wrong with the old one. A couple times a year I attend trauma conferences, and outside each conference hall is always a hallway backed with sales rep booths trying to pitch some new gadget. Very rarely, one of these actually becomes part of the toolbox....but that is very rare.

The most useful thing about quikclot type products is that they are a little bit more of a 'fire and forget' treatment than gauze, which could be useful if you are in the middle of combat, need to stop bleeding on yourself, and then keep fighting, hoping that the QK does its thing while you are otherwise occupied.
 

Sourdough

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BIG Thanks............Next question, very common is large chunk of meat and skin torn off or dangling. This is generally thigh, butt cheek, arm bicep or triceps', scalp. Strangely people walk substantial distances with these chunks of flesh hanging, especially scalp. Question......how to self treat......??


Something to remember, is that medicine is not THAT different from any other industry. If you want to make money, you have to find ways to sell new products to people, EVEN if there is nothing wrong with the old one. A couple times a year I attend trauma conferences, and outside each conference hall is always a hallway backed with sales rep booths trying to pitch some new gadget. Very rarely, one of these actually becomes part of the toolbox....but that is very rare.

The most useful thing about quikclot type products is that they are a little bit more of a 'fire and forget' treatment than gauze, which could be useful if you are in the middle of combat, need to stop bleeding on yourself, and then keep fighting, hoping that the QK does its thing while you are otherwise occupied.
 

Aerindel

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BIG Thanks............Next question, very common is large chunk of meat and skin torn off or dangling. This is generally thigh, butt cheek, arm bicep or triceps', scalp. Strangely people walk substantial distances with these chunks of flesh hanging, especially scalp. Question......how to self treat......??
The technical term for this is 'avulsion'

If covered in dirt, etc you rinse off the avulsed flesh with any water clean enough to drink (doesn't need to be sterile), place it back in place the best you can, and wrap it tightly with bandage, and get to medical care. Do not use hydrogen peroxide, alcohol etc. These kill the outer layers of flesh they touch and make healing less likely.

It won't 'heal' by putting in back way but it will help keep it at body temperature and from drying out. If you let that flesh get cold and dry, its gone so do the best you can to return it to a normal condition while you get to help.

If there is no medical care available, you are in big trouble. You can try to stitch the flesh back in place and use anti-biotics to prevent infection. If you are luckily and there are enough blood vessels left to keep the partially detached tissue perfused it may heal. If not, it will become necrotic and die. If that happens it has to be removed and enough tissue at the edges of the wound to get to 'good' tissue and you can attempt to close the wound.

If completely detached, treat like an amputation.
 

Sourdough

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Thanks......That was "sobering". Had I fully grasped this, the last five decades of my life would have been different.

The technical term for this is 'avulsion'

If covered in dirt, etc you rinse off the avulsed flesh with any water clean enough to drink (doesn't need to be sterile), place it back in place the best you can, and wrap it tightly with bandage, and get to medical care. Do not use hydrogen peroxide, alcohol etc. These kill the outer layers of flesh they touch and make healing less likely.

It won't 'heal' by putting in back way but it will help keep it at body temperature and from drying out. If you let that flesh get cold and dry, its gone so do the best you can to return it to a normal condition while you get to help.

If there is no medical care available, you are in big trouble. You can try to stitch the flesh back in place and use anti-biotics to prevent infection. If you are luckily and there are enough blood vessels left to keep the partially detached tissue perfused it may heal. If not, it will become necrotic and die. If that happens it has to be removed and enough tissue at the edges of the wound to get to 'good' tissue and you can attempt to close the wound.

If completely detached, treat like an amputation.
 
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SoJer

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..Next question, very common is large chunk of meat and skin torn off or dangling. ..how to self treat......??
To add on to Aerindels' fine / spot-on advice, this is one area where the 'Israeli Bandage'-style of dressing comes in handy.. ie: (and - to be Clear - Not 'shilling for RE' :) just using as a Ref..) ..the chief-ideas being:

a) Work well in areas where a 'Tourniquet' can't (ie: scalp avulsion / buttock, etc.. ) and will Both help absorb blood, and Also help 'hold the wound closed' / keep debris Out (once cleaned, as was importantly-pointed out..) and..

b) help apply / keep Pressure on, once your hand can no-longer (ie: gotta get Out of the scene / woods, etc, to go to Base / for help, etc)

The 'Israeli', there, is certainly a solid, 'combat proven' design / performer, but there is Also the 'OLEAS' style: ..which boasts the concept of the little added 'pressure cup' (that clear plastic oval, in the pic, there..) that - in theory - helps add a 'pressure point', to the area..

(Imo, in concept, it's sound, and I'm sure would be helpful for the more 'narrow-channel' wounds (like a smaller-cal gunshot, ie: 9mm) but Not so sure it will prove any real 'advantage' over the Israeli-style, especially for large-area wounds (like an open scalp / torn buttock, etc - or multiple-punctures, like your Bear-bite example..) but.. It's an "Option" to have, so Fwiw..)

But, in all, like Aer said: Contiguous and Sufficient Pressure, and these bandages Can help, especially if 'solo' (though not sure how you 'DIY-fix a blown-off butt-cheek'.. Not one I've 'BTDT' on.. :)

PS - there are some good 'quick overview Vids' at the bottom of those Links, that show 'how / why they work'.. :cool:

Fwiw..
jd
 
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