R134a Question

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Peanut

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I've recharged an ac system with r134a several times though the years. This time... '02silverado, ac is still cooling but seems a little less than last year. Figured it needed freon. I started the engine and set the ac on high with doors open. let it run about 5min...

Connected to low pressure port(only fits one)... gauge reads high, 60psi. Allowed to run several more minutes, rechecked several time, each time the needle is on the line between yellow and red on the dial = 60psi

Unexpected to say the least. Makes me think I have a compressor problem.

New bottle and gauge purchased today. Ideas?

20230824_r134a00.jpg
20230824_r134a50.jpg
 
I've recharged an ac system with r134a several times though the years. This time... '02silverado, ac is still cooling but seems a little less than last year. Figured it needed freon. I started the engine and set the ac on high with doors open. let it run about 5min...

Connected to low pressure port(only fits one)... gauge reads high, 60psi. Allowed to run several more minutes, rechecked several time, each time the needle is on the line between yellow and red on the dial = 60psi

Unexpected to say the least. Makes me think I have a compressor problem.

New bottle and gauge purchased today. Ideas?

View attachment 114820View attachment 114821
As hot as its been, with the doors open, that seems about normal.
You have to be careful that you don't fill the condenser with liquid.
If the system is circulating properly, the low-side pressure will always be related to the inside outlet temp.
Back in the old days they had a "sight-glass" on the filter, you simply added gas until it went clear and you were done. I miss those :(.
I got into trouble working on the '82 caddy I had. The heater wasn't turning off completely.
I kept checking the indoor temp and low-side pressure and adding gas until I blew a gasket on the compressor.:mad::oops:
It wasn't low on gas when I started, and I added enough to fill an empty system, and Pow!:(
Don't be me.
 
I didn't try to add any, just connected it and read the gauge. I've seen a compressor go bad that caused high pressure readings... so long ago I don't remember the exact circumstances.

But if you think 60psi is normal at these ambient temps... so be it. You know more than me. I've replace a few compressors, recharged others, just had never seen this exact issue. Knew not to add any r134 until the pressure riddle was solved.
 
Additional:
Also if you put more than enough gas into a system, the condenser becomes 'waterlogged' with liquid and cannot dump the heat released by condensing the incoming hot gas.
A ping for @Acdoctor to chime in.
 
I didn't try to add any, just connected it and read the gauge. I've seen a compressor go bad that caused high pressure readings... so long ago I don't remember the exact circumstances.

But if you think 60psi is normal at these ambient temps... so be it. You know more than me. I've replace a few compressors, recharged others, just had never seen this exact issue. Knew not to add any r134 until the pressure riddle was solved.
The only hint I can add is: note the low side pressure/temp, add a half can and if it goes down, it was low.
And when the pressure/temp doesn't drop after adding additional, STOP ADDING GAS!
 
I didn't try to add any, just connected it and read the gauge. I've seen a compressor go bad that caused high pressure readings... so long ago I don't remember the exact circumstances.
Additional 'shade-tree' advice: the rule of 'thumb' (pun).
When the compressor fails, it is usually internal carnage.
If it craps out, the outlet tube will not be very hot when running.
Conversely, if it is working overloaded, as mentioned above (like with doors open on a 100° day), it will burn thahell out of your thumb :oops:.
Edit: Too many other things to mention, but I don't want to 'Meerkat' the thread.
 
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I have a '99, Hubby does vehicle A/C work!🙄 I DO NOT have A/c in my truck! It needs the compressor rebuilt, a new evaporator, a new condenser, and on and on!! Too much money for what it's worth!! Those are the WORST to work on!! Yet, I love my truck!! Once the system is contaminated, get ready to pay!! It will need everything!
 
I've had success adding Freon to truck A/C systems... didn't really know jack about 'em, just followed the advice of older hands who were more experienced. I recall one time when my bunk A/C went out during the monsoon in Phoenix, that was a hot, humid & miserable time, lol... :oops:
 
My neighbor is a master mechanic, who does work from his garage. He has a Snap On A/C analyzer which whenever I have A/C problems, he will plug in the beast and it tells anything and everything about your A/C. It also conducts a leak down test, to determine if you have Freon leaks.

I took my wife's car in recently and discovered a wet hose on the high pressure side. I purchased the hose from the dealer, he installed and again placed it on the Snap On machine. It sucks out everything, then adds the appropriate oil and Freon and since doing this, my A/C system is icy cold. Well worth locating someone with one of these A/C analyzers.
 
We deal with automotive ac systems all the time at my shop, deer impacts are not ac friendly. To begin with, let's break down how the AC system works, for those that don't know:

The basic parts of an ac system are:
The condenser (this is in front of the radiator usually)
The evaporator (this is in the heater box inside of the cabin)
The compressor (driven by the engine)
The expansion valve (this is inline between the condenser and the evaporator
The receiver/drier (this is between the condenser and expansion valve).

The basic operation of the ac system is:
1. Low pressure refrigerant is compressed by the compressor into high pressure refrigerant. This generators heat.
2. The hot high pressure refrigerant is pumped through the condenser, where air movement through the condenser cools it.
3. The refrigerant passes through the receiver/drier, which is filled with desiccant to absorb any moisture in the refrigerant.
4. The high pressure refrigerant then passes through the expansion valve, which allows the high pressure (compressed) refrigerant to expand, which rapidly cools the refrigerant. (On humid days, you can sometimes see frost building up on this area of the system.
5. The supercooled refrigerant then passes into the evaporator inside of the vehicle, where a fan blows across the fins of the evaporator to cool the air and moisture condenses out of the air. (An ac system dries the air more than cools it, as drier air feels cooler than humid air.) This is also why when you park in one spot you'll get a pool of water under the car with the ac running.
6. The low pressure refrigerant is now warmer than it was and heads toward the compressor, where it is compressed into high pressure refrigerant and starts it's journey over.

Now, the reason I went through all this is to illustrate how many parts there are in an ac system. When a system isn't cooling well, people generally jump straight to the "it needs refrigerant", which, while that is true sometimes, lots of others things can be at play.

Before adding any more r134a to your system, check these things first:
1. The condenser. Make sure it isn't clogged with dirt/dust/chaff/etc. You can wash it down with either a garden hose and a nozzle or a pressure washer, just be careful with the pressure washer that you don't get too close. Also check to make sure that the cooling fins on the condenser are not damaged from impacts, they can be gently combed back straight with a plastic ac comb or I've seen guys use a plastic picnic knife to gently straighten them. They are aluminum and very soft.
2. Are the cooling fans running when the ac is engaged? If the fans are not running on high when the ac is on, there isn't enough air movement over the condenser to cool the hot high pressure refrigerant down.
3. Is the belt tight on the ac compressor? Each manufacturer has a specific amount of deflection that is acceptable in both v and serpentine belts, if they are worn and stretched, they won't grab the pulley and spin the compressor fast enough.
4. Does the clutch engage on the ac compressor when the system is on. It should kick on and off as the vehicle is running.
5. Does the heater fan make any noise inside the cabin when it is running. You'd be amazed at how much junk can get sucked into the fan box in a vehicle. I've pulled everything from candy and feminine product wrappers to corn and tree leaves out of the squirrel fan box on vehicles. The blades on the fan are rather delicate as well and can break, reducing the amount of air the fan can move.
6. Is the evaporator core clogged with dirt and dust? This is difficult to check without a scope or pulling the heater box out, but a cheap and easy preventative measure is available for this. They sell a spray cleaner that has a long tube on it that you snake into the box, spray on the evaporator and it cleans the fins on the evaporator.
7. Is the expansion valve working? The easiest way to check this is to touch the high pressure line in front of the valve, it should feel hot and the low pressure line on the backside of the valve should feel cold.

Now, systems do leak r134a over time. The lines and o-rings on the system are microscopically porous and over time the refrigerant does leak out. However, if your low side reading is showing 60psi, that is an indicator that the system is either overfilled (which those diy cans are notorious for) or there is restriction in the system somewhere. Normal low pressure side readings should be between 30-40psi with the system running.
 
It has been a good while ago, but I have added R134 in a DIY set up to a couple systems.. This at good results when the systems were not compromised and just low on refrigerant..

I figure a DIY refrigerant add is a pretty good, reasonably cheap way to diagnose a system.. In that if just adding refrigerant makes it work, OK.. If it doesn't help then you know you need professional help.. Every ones situation will be different..
 
Buff is mostly accurate in his synopsis on AC systems except.........The average day in the life of an auto AC tech with the run of the mill GM truck.
The condenser...usually in front of the radiator !!! You have found that there is a leak in the condenser ,But where did they hide the radiator?? You can sometimes catch sight of it from underneath the vehicle with a stream light 10,000 lumen laser flashlight that is commonly used just to have the range to illuminate into the shrouded depths and past the cooling push me pull you fan assembly . Now you are firmly wedged under the vehicle ,that is when you discover the possum that has taken residents in the fan shroud and that you have disturbed his\her (or whatever gender it identifies as at that moment ) naptime.
Oh yes, back to the condenser. If you now take that same flashlight, which by now is getting hot in your fingers from megawatts of power consumption and look thru the front grill of the vehicle, you may see this semi-finned object ,this could be a condenser or it may be one of three possible oil cooler assemblies , engine, power steering, transmission and lets not ferget the turbo intercooler.
Yes, the condenser is sandwiched somewhere tween there and believe me this whole assembly is bolted and snapped together into one massive conglomeration.
How does one get to this offending object that seems to be the central subject of this dissertation?
First, from underneath the vehicle just underneath the possum, you remove the air flow panel these are usually found in collections in the corners of automotive shops.
Next, the inner fender panels (these are mud and splattered animal debris
filter devices that reside just above the tires). Oh yeah, remove the tires! You cannot remove thousands of the plastic push rivets (plivets??) and screws with them in the way.
With the tires removed, look up at the underside of this inner fender filter and you will notice a number of feathered plastic spikes pokin down thru the panel. I believe that these are put in place by the automotive engineers to increase the filtering efficiency and road noise generation of the inner fender. But no, these insidious objects are used to hold in place , one ..the inner fender and two, ..every heater hose, wheel speed, abs, engine control wire loom , battery cable, transmission cooling, and brake line. I am sure that the invention of this inner fender device has enabled the advancement of the automotive industry, allowing the designer to attach all the under hood items that could not be fittted on the valve covers!
Next, the upper air control panel. These are usually found in p!ace because when the auto owner raises the hood (yes some do) that is the first thing they will notice missing. You remove the plastic one-time-use push rivets (plivets?) and a few bolts hiding in a place that the engineer placed there just for giggles.
Next the headlights ,YES headlights . This process depends on the make and model of the vehicle dependent on the year the car or truck was made . Right about now you need a breather , grab a cup of coffee and consult with your labor/disassembly guide only to discover that the instructions have now morphed into a generic approximation of what you might reasonably expect to encounter UAV ( Universal American Vehicle) and the total labor cost of 1.2 hours associated with this ever expanding project.
The whole front valance, bumper cover, fog light, turn signal, marker lamp holder grill??assembly must be removed.A word of advice here, it takes two to hold and disconnect and safely store this critter. It is a long, flexible, bulky ,shiny painted, expensive item.
Whew!!! After all dat, you should be able to see at least the upper one quarter of the condenser under the intercooler, oil coolers and this large square tube of metal that is the impact deer to radiator deflector.
This is the time you discover that that sometime in the recent past you needed to drain the radiator, transmission and oil cooling lines. Good luck with not making a mess on the floor!
Now you can access the AC lines going to the condenser (you did remember to have the unit discharged. If not, you will find out that the explanation to friends and even strangers can be embarrassing; describing why you glow all over under the UV lights at the amusement park or county fair.)
Now remove the bumper/ deer deflector tube.
OMG, did I ferget to describe the process of removing the fan and shroud assembly? The possum was still there so I will not venture into that for now.
At this time, you locate and remove the supposedly few bolts that hold the massive cooling assembly from the remnants of the vehicle.
Remove the condenser / radiator/ etc...etc...unit and waddle it over to a large table or work surface . You do this for two reasons, one...so you can locate and separate the various cooling components, and two ... to drain all the remaining antifreeze / transmission fluid / AC oil and leak dye down the front of your pants leg and into your boot.
Now you are gettin somewhere... Except you realize that you have fergetted to order the new condenser unit!!! ... Da$& it...D*%& it!!! And it is past the cutoff delivery time from the parts warehouse. SIGH......
The next morning, three hours past the time the parts warehouse promised to have your part on site first thing in the morning, the highly anticipated parts truck arrives and the parts runner unloads two boxes of brake drums and wants you to sign for them.
@$#%&%$#¥€¢£×π√=°√¶!!!!!!!!!!.
And you still need to evict the possum!
 

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