10a and im sure you're plugging it into a 120 outlet that comes out to (ExI=P) 1200w/245w panel= 5 panel system just to run that fridge.
Solar
- Thread starter Krime
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That link you provided is to a press release, as such it is worth nothing but let's look at it anyway.
Yes it uses the phrase "1000-volt modules" but then we see
Staying with Kyocera, let's look at their current offerings.
http://www.kyocerasolar.com.au/australia/solar-panels/current-products.htm
None of these panels product 1000 volts, not even close. They are all 36-, 24- or 12-volt (nominal) panels. Note however that most of them are rated for use in a 1000-volt system, which is what I suggested would be the case in my first post on this subject.
That press release is a year old, so either the 1000-volt panels didn't work out or they are in fact referring to the system voltage.
www.robgray.com/temp/Schematic.pdf
In fact I've been earning a living from doing just that for years, still do on a consulting basis.
I think I managed to get through that without resorting to sarcasm as you did, I am prepared to be proved wrong re these 1000-volt panels (I was wrong once before
), but until you can produce hard data of a single panel/module that generates 1000-volts I plan to rest my case.
Yes it uses the phrase "1000-volt modules" but then we see
Note it's the system that's 1000 volts, not the module. There are multiple modules in a string and it's that string that produces 1000 volts.
60- and 80-cell modules, let's do the maths. 1000 / 60 = 16.67, so if these panels are generating 1000 volts each cell is producing nearly 17 volts, something I've never heard of and it appears neither has Kyocera, from their site
If you have found cells that can generate 33 times the industry norm I would like to hear more.
Staying with Kyocera, let's look at their current offerings.
http://www.kyocerasolar.com.au/australia/solar-panels/current-products.htm
None of these panels product 1000 volts, not even close. They are all 36-, 24- or 12-volt (nominal) panels. Note however that most of them are rated for use in a 1000-volt system, which is what I suggested would be the case in my first post on this subject.
That press release is a year old, so either the 1000-volt panels didn't work out or they are in fact referring to the system voltage.
I've never heard the term "blueprint" used in electronics, but if you mean "schematic" yes I can, here's an example
www.robgray.com/temp/Schematic.pdf
In fact I've been earning a living from doing just that for years, still do on a consulting basis.
I also spent years crawling under buildings, pulling wires up lift shafts, terminating cables as thick as your thumb, and soldering wires so thin you need magnification to see them properly. I've "done my time" as they say, both in the field and at a desk. But it seems that you have more experience and are accusing me of being a theory-only desk jockey despite the fact that you "only have about 3 months till I graduate". That's a bit rich.
I think I managed to get through that without resorting to sarcasm as you did, I am prepared to be proved wrong re these 1000-volt panels (I was wrong once before
), but until you can produce hard data of a single panel/module that generates 1000-volts I plan to rest my case.Moving right along, back to Brent's fridge.
10A x 8h x 120V = 9600Wh required per day.
In general with solar systems you assume 5 hours useful sunlight per day, that obviously is very dependent on location and season but let's use that figure for now. So in 5 hours the panels have to generate 9600Wh. That's 1920 watts per hour, so you need 1920 watts of panels. The physical makeup of the panels is pretty much immaterial but assuming 250w panels that's (rounded up) 8 panels required, I would add another 1 or 2 to allow for losses in the regulator and inverter. Someone please check my maths, I was out by a factor of 10 when I first did the numbers
This assumes that the 8 hours running per day is correct, how have you determined that?
Battery bank size is another thing that is (sort of) unrelated to this and requires various tradoffs to be made.
10A x 8h x 120V = 9600Wh required per day.
In general with solar systems you assume 5 hours useful sunlight per day, that obviously is very dependent on location and season but let's use that figure for now. So in 5 hours the panels have to generate 9600Wh. That's 1920 watts per hour, so you need 1920 watts of panels. The physical makeup of the panels is pretty much immaterial but assuming 250w panels that's (rounded up) 8 panels required, I would add another 1 or 2 to allow for losses in the regulator and inverter. Someone please check my maths, I was out by a factor of 10 when I first did the numbers
This assumes that the 8 hours running per day is correct, how have you determined that?
Battery bank size is another thing that is (sort of) unrelated to this and requires various tradoffs to be made.
forgive me, but you stated Engineer, not "Electrician", you stated that you did a few solar systems, not actual electrical work. one of the companies he provided showed a 1000v 245-275 panels, i even showed it to my teacher and we both had a laugh because they would be virtually useless especially for the money, however, making me seem like a liar, i cant seem to find them -_- .
you would not need to times it times 8hrs as 5 panels would run at a constant especially at peak hours (though you're right, peak hours depend on azimuth [latitude longitude of your system placement and barometric pressure from sea level and location ] and Zenith) which around where i am is 5.5 peak hours to where it gets optimum efficacy using Ohms Law 10aX120v=1200w 1200/245=4.898 that's 5 panels because of the overage of 4. and just cuz the sun isn't at Zenith doesn't mean its not racking in irradiance, only no sunlight hitting the panel, or shadowing can actually stop a panel from working.
and yes 3 months left, where ive hooked up a few different racks at 20 panels at a time and completely wired them myself, from the shut offs to the inverter, to the shutoff to the utility. ive received an A in every course except electrical troubleshooting, which was a bit$h i got a B, and the course review i got a B because i only showed up 4 days that term because of home issues prohibited me from going to school and attendance is 30% of the grade....yet i still pulled off a B, ive also had 5 job offers and 3 of the top companies begging me to interview, and im not out of school yet.....not to mention 18+ years exp in previous construction industries....so ya, don't scoff....
you would not need to times it times 8hrs as 5 panels would run at a constant especially at peak hours (though you're right, peak hours depend on azimuth [latitude longitude of your system placement and barometric pressure from sea level and location ] and Zenith) which around where i am is 5.5 peak hours to where it gets optimum efficacy using Ohms Law 10aX120v=1200w 1200/245=4.898 that's 5 panels because of the overage of 4. and just cuz the sun isn't at Zenith doesn't mean its not racking in irradiance, only no sunlight hitting the panel, or shadowing can actually stop a panel from working.
and yes 3 months left, where ive hooked up a few different racks at 20 panels at a time and completely wired them myself, from the shut offs to the inverter, to the shutoff to the utility. ive received an A in every course except electrical troubleshooting, which was a bit$h i got a B, and the course review i got a B because i only showed up 4 days that term because of home issues prohibited me from going to school and attendance is 30% of the grade....yet i still pulled off a B, ive also had 5 job offers and 3 of the top companies begging me to interview, and im not out of school yet.....not to mention 18+ years exp in previous construction industries....so ya, don't scoff....
Krime, could you (if you don't mind revealing ti), tell me where your getting this degree from? Is it an online education? Given my location, an online education is the only viable option available and I'd be interested if you could point me in a good direction. I have a strong background in engineering and physics and have read some great primers, but have always felt that before I really delve into and implement a solar solution, I need some more education and a good review of my calculations. It sounds like a degree program may be more than what I need, but I tend to go overboard with things so it would be in keeping with my general characteristics especially since the subject interests me.
I go to the University of Antelope Valley, no its not online, though I believe there are online schools for it, and yes associates degree
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Krime,
Thanks for the information and for planting the seed. I think I'll start checking into finding a decent online program and pursue it.
np, heres the book we run a LOT out of, its pretty much the Solar bible, it WILL teach you pretty much everything you need to know except actually doing it, but has all the knowledge youll needKrime,
Thanks for the information and for planting the seed. I think I'll start checking into finding a decent online program and pursue it.
http://www.constructionbook.com/pho...egs&epc=885Y&gclid=CJOmhvzFqsICFceVfgodV4gAbg
Way to go on being so close to getting done! I know you have been at it for some time.
I too went back to school in an effort to stay employed..... I have about a year left......
I have been using some solar products by a company called Goal Zero. Unfortunately my association forbids panels on the roof since it is a condo complex with a common roof.
you can always talk your neighbor into a shared lease etc, do that n your HOA cant say ****
Thank you and congratz to yourself too!!!!!
In what the University of New South Wales described as a world first, the researchers were able to convert more than 40 percent of sunlight hitting the panels into electricity. I couldn't get this iPad to attach the link, but I read this on yahoo news today. Pretty cool info. Solar is coming, just not as fast as I or the environment would like.
Installations that are used to generate electricity for large buildings often operate at medium voltage in order to make the production of 480/277 volt three phase AC power more efficient.
Tommy
Found out this morning that my state is one of FIVE that doesn't allow you to purchase electricity from solar companies (have to be monopolized, standing utility companies). There's a PAC trying to change it, so hope they succeed, but Duke and Progress energy have basically bought and paid for every high-ranking politician there is in this state. (including our despised, yet re-elected governor).
Oddly ironic that the "sunshine state" is so anti-solar.....
Oddly ironic that the "sunshine state" is so anti-solar.....
And speaking of coruption, I'm looking to buy some NiFe (Nickle Iron) batteries, they were designed by Edison and some of his are still working, they last forever pretty much and don't care about fancy charging regimes or anything.
So why aren't we all using NiFe batteries you may ask, given that other types **** themselves in a few years. Apparently Exide bought the patent and shelved it.
They are now becoming available, dunno why but maybe the patent expired, or it's the Chinese who don't give a rat's about patents.
So why aren't we all using NiFe batteries you may ask, given that other types **** themselves in a few years. Apparently Exide bought the patent and shelved it.
They are now becoming available, dunno why but maybe the patent expired, or it's the Chinese who don't give a rat's about patents.
Looks like they are about 3x the cost of LA/AGM batteries, that makes them hard to buy up front but over all OK and they have other features that are good.
Of course if you move house every 7 years (as per the average) then long life is not a huge plus, but one of the arguments against batteries/solar on prepper forums is that they don't last and then where are you, these get around that argument.
Of course if you move house every 7 years (as per the average) then long life is not a huge plus
, but one of the arguments against batteries/solar on prepper forums is that they don't last and then where are you, these get around that argument.We have thought about going solar but like you said some companies are a rip off! I asked for consultation for our house and they said would cost 40 K and we would still be tied to the grid! I don't get that. Also concerned that our winters go with many days of cloudy, doom gloom weather and we would not be able to juice up.
I am more concerned about power loss due to weather and thought solar would be a good back up, however my hubby thinks home generator will be our best bet,
Any suggestions? Oh we moved from southern Ca last yr. our oldest son got solar on his house tied to grid but still has payment for solar install and few dollars to electric company a month. Also do you know about the Hearp program?
I am more concerned about power loss due to weather and thought solar would be a good back up, however my hubby thinks home generator will be our best bet,
Any suggestions? Oh we moved from southern Ca last yr. our oldest son got solar on his house tied to grid but still has payment for solar install and few dollars to electric company a month. Also do you know about the Hearp program?
I've been looking at solar for a while now. It's still so expensive to get well set up that it's not really practicle. Between paying for the solar to produce juice and the batteries for storage, you can pay the electric company less. I think it's comming, but the price just isn't there yet. There are instances where it's worth it, like if you're really remote without access to power. With adjustments to your life style, it can be done, just not for the average modern American house.
I am currently working on converting my gasoline generator over to propane. It just makes more economic sense, even if it is only a temporary fix for short term power outages. If shtf, then a major lifestyle change is needed anyways. I'm converting to propane not just for the generator, but a backup space heater in the house and an outdoor kitchen too. We have talked about the benefits of propane over gasoline on other threads here. One of the best is it dosent go bad, as its allready 10's of thousands years old. Gasoline will last a year at best.
On another note, moving from s.cali to Michigan, I bet your first winter was a little bit of a culture shock!
As some said, I don't think the price is there yet for solar to be viable.
I've come to the same realization. A propane tank with a home propane generator appears to be the best option both financially, and power-wise, for emergency backup. You could basically operate just as nothing had ever happened in an emergency, and in a SHTF situation, could always scavenge for propane, and ration the usage.
I've come to the same realization. A propane tank with a home propane generator appears to be the best option both financially, and power-wise, for emergency backup. You could basically operate just as nothing had ever happened in an emergency, and in a SHTF situation, could always scavenge for propane, and ration the usage.
I too am thinking that propane is a good option. We've been cooking with it for years but I've been trying to come up with a method to ditch it entirely. We can cook on the wood stove but in summer that's a pain, we've experimented with induction cookers and they work well but do draw a lot from the solar, still a possibility though.
But propane is just the best method and unlike other fuels it lasts forever. We currently use about 40kgs of propane a year, now that the wood stove is up and running and I plan to build a solar oven that will reduce, let's say to 20kgs or maybe less. At my age I could probably just go out and buy enough propane to see me out, convert the gennys to it and that part of prepping is totally sorted for maybe $2000, sounds OK to me.
But propane is just the best method and unlike other fuels it lasts forever. We currently use about 40kgs of propane a year, now that the wood stove is up and running and I plan to build a solar oven that will reduce, let's say to 20kgs or maybe less. At my age I could probably just go out and buy enough propane to see me out, convert the gennys to it and that part of prepping is totally sorted for maybe $2000, sounds OK to me.
I live in a travel trailer and have a 72 watt solar system connected to the batteries. It works very well for the lights, utilizing the slide outs and keeping the batteries charged. I use grid power for fridge, microwave and water heater, though I could use propane as well. I guess you need to figure out what you really need to run off electricity once the grid goes away. as a temporary measure, I know both solar, and propane are viable options. I have a friend who has a propane generator connected as a back up to his house and had to use it for 2 weeks this past winter. Batteries do seem to be the week point to solar system. Does anyone know of direct solar to electricity system to get around the batteries?
A normal system with no batteries will do this (IE just panels and inverter and probably a regulator), but as Gazrok says it's a no go when there's no sun (or not enough sun), which even on a good day could be 18-19 hours depending on the season.
And also you couldn't draw a lot of power, enough for most things if you have several panels but forget the microwave.
