The Net-Zero Narrative Is Riddled With Holes

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Proud Prepper said:
What you should have learned in school is Oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. And oil, is not a non-renewable resource. It, like coal, and natural gas, replenishes from sources within the mantle of earth.
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What you should have learned in school is that the molecular structure of hydrocarbons can often be directly linked to pigments, chlorophyll, leaf waxes, etc. of species that biology and paleontology tells us were dominant at those places during times when oil formed. Oil can be formed abiotically, and there are few known examples of this most notably from a few Russian oil fields. But this oil tends to differ in identifiable ways from the usual variety, and is by far minuscule compared to our oil needs and reservoirs of organic origin.
 
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oil was formed over millions of years, it is NOT renewable not in the short term, it is a finite item, once its all used up its all gone, at least for another million years.
if oil is so plentiful why are they mining shale oil which is more expensive to produce and a lower class product?
 
bigpaul said:
oil was formed over millions of years, it is NOT renewable not in the short term, it is a finite item, once its all used up its all gone, at least for another million years.
if oil is so plentiful why are they mining shale oil which is more expensive to produce and a lower class product?
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Of course oil was formed over millions of years, and it didn't just stop overnight. Oil comes from many types of deposits, shale being just one. Thats where fracking works so well.
If a company wants to "mine" shale oil, or tar sands, so what, its their investment dollars. Oil is sold on the open market. There are different qualities of oil, like sweet, brent etc that bring different prices. Oil isn't a government controlled commodity, at least in the US.
 
Arcticdude said:
Its actually closer to a couple thousand years of known reserves. And there's a lot of thought that oil is still being formed to this day. I kind of agree with you that oil could be depleted some day, but not for dozens of generations. I dont think we have to worry about it for a long, long time. In the mean time, why not enjoy the life that oil and gas provides for us all?
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really? on a prepper form I find that "rose tinted glasses", I dont know of anyone outside of America that would agree with that theory.
compared to other "ages" in history and pre history the "oil age" will be but a blink in time.
 
bigpaul said:
really? on a prepper form I find that "rose tinted glasses", I dont know of anyone outside of America that would agree with that theory.
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That's fine. Most of the world is ignorant of the truth. The information is available for anyone that wants to look. Of course the real numbers won't be found on some crackpot site like NPR or the BBC. Follow the agenda, and the money.
 
I guess one can believe what they want.
I studied "peak oil" many many years ago and the consensus is very different.
there are many on prepper and homesteading sites who want to hang on to their current life styles and cannot contemplate a different life no matter what the circumstances. other forces are at work.
 
MOS0231 said:
And if TPTB decided that in order to save the planet/mandkind, you have to reduce your carbon footprint to, say a 1,200sqft home? With a smart meter regulating you thermostat to 78 in the summer and 62 in the winter? You can only drive your micro-electric car 25miles a week and pay a tax on every mile? Food: plant based only and there is a tax on that too. Or grow it your own, as long as it does not involve real meat. A CarbonValueAdded Tax for every mile any product takes to get to your grocery store? That head of lettuce from CA is now $23.99.
But, just like the recent Obama-fest, those rules do not apply to them?

You okay with that?
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At what point did I agree with any of the article you started with in this thread ? Did my post here lead you to believe I was ok with the extremes? As if that would ever happen? I am not. You are a Marine Intel guy so you should be able to understand my post. We the people don't need anyone to tell us to change, we can take, or not take action now should we choose to do so. And whoever is in charge will always be exempt no matter which side is in power. Don't we keep hearing the same things from government year after year? We did serve that government at one time. We are both on the same side if we belong to this site.
 
bigpaul said:
really? on a prepper form I find that "rose tinted glasses", I dont know of anyone outside of America that would agree with that theory.
compared to other "ages" in history and pre history the "oil age" will be but a blink in time.
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I do believe there is still alot of oil out there, but most scientists say we are past the point of peak oil. Thats the easily gotten stuff. Now they are working on extracting the harder to get stuff, which pollutes even more. It just makes sense to strive for cleaner options here. Most cities have so much pollution now that it’s comparable to being a smoker. Im realistic here, and its not going to magically clear up overnight, but why wouldn’t looking for cleaner sources be the smart thing to do?
 
Brent S said:
Your source was from Fool.com. I wouldnt even open a site like that, much less take it seriously. Why woud you so easily believe in one bizarre article that contradicts 99% of the scientific community?
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Lol, because its not 99%, there you go with your consensus logic again, that's not even close to an accurate percentage.
 
Brent S said:
All I am certain of is the sun blasts the earth with more energy in a day than all of mankind uses in a year. It’s allready there and just makes sense to harness it as a cleaner source of energy. Is it net zero, no. Nothing is. It takes energy and oil and many other things to manufacture anything. Solar panels produce cleaner energy than oil, but yes it takes some oil to manufacture them. Batteries pollute when used up. Luckily Tesla says now they can reclaim 92% of the stuff in the dead batteries for new ones. These new power sources aren’t perfect, but they get better each year. Oil won’t go away, but if we can use less of it and still produce cleaner power why wouldn’t we?
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How much does it cost to reclaim/recycle those batteries?
 
Proud Prepper said:
And then there's this method, which makes oil renewable.

https://www.fool.com/investing/gene...t-youve-heard-oil-and-gas-are-actually-r.aspx
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Your citing a investment site's stock recommendation. The ironic thing is that originally the "fool" in the name refers to the fact that the "wise" (ie financial advisors,mutual fund managers, etc)) can't beat the indexes so it is better to be a "fool" than "wise", but now with all their services they have become part of the "wise".

Motley Fool got messed up early on by recommending a "Dogs of the Dow" approach. Back testing showed they were geniuses, but the strategy didn't work out going forward.

These guys are entertainment, though, not really a source for sound advice.
 
MOS0231 said:
How much does it cost to reclaim/recycle those batteries?
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I did not see anything on cost, but considering that a lot of the needed materials are a finite resource at least they are reusable.
 
spazatak said:
It took millions of years for ancient sea beds to turn into oil. Yeah, I guess our present day sea beds will eventually turn to oil, in millions of years.
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It's not like the sea beds sleep for millions of years unchanged and one day wake up and decide "Hey let's all turn into oil today." And then go back to sleep for millions of years before they wake up and turn into oil again.

It is a continuous process.
 
DrHenley said:
It's not like the sea beds sleep for millions of years unchanged and one day wake up and decide "Hey let's all turn into oil today." And then go back to sleep for millions of years before they wake up and turn into oil again.

It is a continuous process.
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Yes it is a continual process. But we have been pumping it out way faster than it gets replenished. Kind of like the aquifers out west. The ground is sinking from the voids from using the resources faster than mother nature can replace them. People aren't very good at managing our natural resources at a sustainable rate.
 
Proud Prepper said:
Where did you get that oil is a finite resource? Its a plentiful, renewable resource. It keeps getting renewed. Where has oil been depleted?
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How about all the old texas fields that made america the nation it once was? They are all but empty, that's why you're drilling in the gulf of Mexico under a mile or water.
 
IIRC back in the 70' someone discovered that 1 ton of trash could produce 1 barrel of oil. If true than oil is a renewable resource.
 
backandbeyond said:
How about all the old texas fields that made america the nation it once was? They are all but empty, that's why you're drilling in the gulf of Mexico under a mile or water.
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Let me explain to you.

In the early days of the Cold War when an isolated Soviet Union tasked their top scientists to identify the actual source of oil. Not a weekend homework assignment. After considerable research, in 1956, Russian scientist Professor Vladimir Porfir'yev announced that "crude oil and natural petroleum gas have no intrinsic connection with biological matter originating near the surface of the earth. They are primordial [originating with the earth's formation] materials which have been erupted from great depths."

If your eyeballs didn't fall out when you read that, you might want to read it again.

He said oil doesn't come from anything biologic, not, as conventional wisdom dictates, from the fossilized remains of dinosaurs and/or ancient plant matter. It comes from very deep in the earth and is created by a biochemical reaction that subjected hydrocarbons (elements having carbon and hydrogen) to extreme heat and intense pressure during the earth's formation.

Russians referred to this oil (any oil, really) as "abiotic oil" because it is not created from the decomposition of biological life forms, but rather from the chemical process continually occurring inside the earth.

I know, easy for Porfir'yev to say. But it turns out it was more than just a theory. It's been proven correct, time and time again.

Because shortly after the Russians discovered this, they started drilling ultra-deep wells and finding oil at 30,000 and 40,000 feet below the earth's surface. These are staggering depths, and far below the depth at which organic matter can be found, which is 18,000 feet.
 
Oddcaliber said:
IIRC back in the 70' someone discovered that 1 ton of trash could produce 1 barrel of oil. If true than oil is a renewable resource.
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You can make hydrocarbon fuel yourself from biomatter. It can be converted in hours. It takes a lot of heat and pressure though. For petroleum, the earth itself provides the heat and pressure.
 
Brent S said:
I did not see anything on cost, but considering that a lot of the needed materials are a finite resource at least they are reusable.
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And that will only drive up the cost.
I have yet to see how much fresh water will be needed to recycle these batteries.
Or what other toxic materials will be needed.
 
Arcticdude said:
I dont give a crap about any of this carbon footprint BS. Global climate change is real, we all know that. Its been going on since the beginning of time. We also know that Man caused climate change is a scam designed to fool the ignorant and foolish. Oil and gas will be around for a long time. When theres a real need for a replacement someone will come up with a new idea.
I’ve always challenged the anti oil people to name any product that does not use oil in its manufacture, production or transportation. So far nobody has mentioned a single product.
Without oil and gas we'd soon be living in caves and grass huts.
I probably have a much smaller carbon footprint than most have, not out of some hippy or socialist pipe dream, but because of the way we choose to live and necessity. Solar provides 100% percent of our electrical needs, we have a lot of timber, which is supposed to soak up carbon or something silly.
We're already blessed with an abundant energy source. Why fight it? Just try living without oil and gas.
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That about says it all.
 
Change isn’t a bad thing. Looking for cleaner alternatives to provide the energy we have become so dependent on isn’t a bad thing. At least we are finally seriously working on better options and new ideas. We should have been doing this 60 years ago but people tend to be resistant to change.
 
MOS0231 said:
And that will only drive up the cost.
I have yet to see how much fresh water will be needed to recycle these batteries.
Or what other toxic materials will be needed.
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As they say, there are no free lunches in life. Everything has costs and hurdles to overcome.
 
Brent S said:
As they say, there are no free lunches in life. Everything has costs and hurdles to overcome.
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And if it requires massive amounts of clean water, and the use of evironmentally damaging toxins/chemicals? Is that worth the cost?
 
Brent S said:
Change isn’t a bad thing. Looking for cleaner alternatives to provide the energy we have become so dependent on isn’t a bad thing. At least we are finally seriously working on better options and new ideas. We should have been doing this 60 years ago but people tend to be resistant to change.
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People were working on it 60 years ago. We have cleaner burning fuel, lower emmision vehicles, cleaner burning coal etc. The lead was taken out of gasoline years ago too.
Thats why we have cleaner air and water today. Did you miss the part where all diesel engines must use ultra low sulphur fuel now? That was another big step in cutting emmisions too. How many people were using solar 60 years ago?
Some people just dont want to admit that we have been making great progress in cleaning up the air and water, without turning everything upside down with some hippy pipe dream.
 
Arcticdude said:
People were working on it 60 years ago. We have cleaner burning fuel, lower emmision vehicles, cleaner burning coal etc. The lead was taken out of gasoline years ago too.
Thats why we have cleaner air and water today. Did you miss the part where all diesel engines must use ultra low sulphur fuel now? That was another big step in cutting emmisions too. How many people were using solar 60 years ago?
Some people just dont want to admit that we have been making great progress in cleaning up the air and water, without turning everything upside down with some hippy pipe dream.
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We have made fossil fuels burn cleaner. And I believe that is a good thing. But I also think that needs to go hand in hand with developing even cleaner and more renewable sources of energy. The EVs of today aren’t going to be the savior of the planet. But at least they are a first step towards development of better technologies. Oil isn’t going away in the near future, and likely never will with it being used in so many things. But it shouldn’t be the only resource we are using.
 
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