I thought that at one time. Then I wondered if times were that desperate there would be a good chance my own guns and ammo (that I had bartered) could be used against me.
Today, Saturday I just bought a couple grand worth of Silver
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I thought that at one time. Then I wondered if times were that desperate there would be a good chance my own guns and ammo (that I had bartered) could be used against me.
Well, when folks are dying of hunger and lack of water the precious metals don't have much value. You need shelter, water and food first, then some way to keep it. When things get better, and they always do, the precious metal will hold value for land or anything else you might want to buy. In 1850 you could buy a very nice suit with a $20 gold piece, today you can still buy a very nice suit for the same ounce of gold.
That is a negative of using them for barter.
I guess you have to be very selective about it.
I just remember when the Bosnians were being slaughtered. Many of the survivors were very clear about things that saved them...toilet paper, and guns and ammo. Was their money.
Jim
The barter thing changed over time. Lighting and fire was first very good but once people learned that they didn't need lights and learned how to make fire it changed to things that help make things more normal for a moment. Coffee, chocolate and hard candy was near the top of the list with alcohol and marijuana right on top. Guns were later traded or bought with food stuffs and ammo too but only to a trusted few. I have a couple "throw away guns" that I could use in barter to people I know but my guns are for me.
To be honest , I can't see or imagine us ever being in a position to to need anything that would force me to give up any of my guns or ammo.
Jim
Jim
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Who here would buy $5000 of silver or gold right now , just to convert, almost worthless cash, soon to be used to start fires with, into something of value.
Or would you convert it into something else ?
What?
Jim
Or would you convert it into something else ?
What?
Jim
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I haven't spent big money on PM's in quite a while. But I always keep my eyes out for coins anywhere I can find them. Antique stores, flea markets, & gun shows usually have some, or alot. And I mostly go for silver.
PM's have had a monetary value since the biblical times. It is limited in supply so should always retain some semblance of value.
PM's have had a monetary value since the biblical times. It is limited in supply so should always retain some semblance of value.
In every country that has had currency issues in the past ( like Venezuela ), people with items for sale (like food) have always accepted silver and gold for payment. Even when the PMs were deemed illegal by the their government.
Its called the black market for a reason and during currency issues the black market is often the only place you can buy anything.
For Christmas I gave our kids tubes of silver eagles. They were $400 each. Today they sell for $550.
Sell! Sell! Sell!
If/when sanity returns to the economy, PM prices will return to 'normal'.
Gold price shown below to reflect the run-up due to panics.
Nobody ever talks about the flip-side of the coin (pun):
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If I had PM's just to make a profit, it would probably be prudent to sell, but that's not really why I have them. If I sell them, I'm back to digital dollars or paper dollars. I just feel more secure with some heaft in my hand right now and I don't really have a plan on what I would do with those dollars, so I'm keeping what I have.
Basically I think that PM's are a hedge against inflation. That said, I think PM's will do just fine moving forward. I do not believe we will have a 'total' financial crash. I think in order for PM's to be worthless, the entire world would have to crash. I don't think that is likely. But, as said before, I try to be prepared for whatever the future holds so diversity is key. I certainly wouldn't have all my money tied up in PM's. But having just a bit feels like security to me.
Basically I think that PM's are a hedge against inflation. That said, I think PM's will do just fine moving forward. I do not believe we will have a 'total' financial crash. I think in order for PM's to be worthless, the entire world would have to crash. I don't think that is likely. But, as said before, I try to be prepared for whatever the future holds so diversity is key. I certainly wouldn't have all my money tied up in PM's. But having just a bit feels like security to me.
Wife wants to do something with worthless dollars before the election.
She said buy $5000 in pm.
I'm leaning to do $10000.
What should I do?
Jim
She said buy $5000 in pm.
I'm leaning to do $10000.
What should I do?
Jim
You were supposed to do that when the stock market crashed in March
I would go with the $5K because if things go 'right' instead of wrong in November, you could be buying PM at an 'all-time high'.
I believe the panic will end soon instead of getting worse.
The people are about tired of it; a lot of pent-up demand.
The government has already promised payment for 100M doses of vaccine.
When they start shooting up us vaccine-takers
*The previous statement is Opinion, nothing more.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing,
Go to town , the parking lots and stores are packed. People are fed up.
I may just wait and see what happens in Nov. Only 3 months away.
If if goes bad , I have some fire starter paper.
Jim
Go to town , the parking lots and stores are packed. People are fed up.
I may just wait and see what happens in Nov. Only 3 months away.
If if goes bad , I have some fire starter paper.
Jim
I'd trade in all my silver and buy ammo, since this will soon be the hottest commodity around.
It already is.
Gold and silver are not going up in value. They are worth the same as 50 years ago. The value of all fiat currencies are going down. Don't matter who gets elected in any country, all the fiat currency will continue to lose value. At some point people will lose faith in whatever paper "money" that they have in their pockets. When that happens the paper "money" will buy nothing. But gold and silver will still buy the same things as always.
I have no intention of selling any silver I have. And the higher silver goes up in price compared to the US dollar just reinforces my decision to never sell any.
I have no intention of selling any silver I have. And the higher silver goes up in price compared to the US dollar just reinforces my decision to never sell any.
But, but, I have enough powder, brass , bullets primers in stock to load enough ammo to supply a battalion.
Have that same amount already loaded.
We have a little extra cash on hand, that we don't really want to use for starting fires.
We are trying to convert it .
Jim
You are only short one Mexican from having a gold-mine (pun) income producing business.
(barter, of course)
.There is zero in the stores and people will
You are only short one Mexican from having a gold-mine (pun) income producing business.
(barter, of course)
There is zero in the stores and people willpaytrade silver for ammo.
I forgot to mention couple hundred lbs of lead bars.
And another 300 + lbs of raw sheet lead.
Jim
Gold is at a near record high right now, looking at the last 30 years. Definitely don't buy that! It looks like a grand time to sell any that you already own though. If I were unlucky enough to have purchased it mid-year 2011, I might be looking to cut my losses and sell, sell, sell. Conversely, if I were lucky enough to have purchased it in 2000 I'd be looking at cashing in on my winnings and sell, sell, sell. Note the price where gold turned mid-year 2011. We are almost revisiting that point now. That reinforces a sell decision.
Silver is in the middle of its range looking at 30 years again. That would not be high on my purchase list right now either. I would wait until it revisits that end-of-2008 point (note that gold turned at that same time as well).
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Haertig makes some excellent and rational points.
However there is still something to be said for Gold and Silver each.
Gold: yes its high but it is not trading at such a high %age premium over spot that SIlver is.
In Silvers favor is that its ratio to Gold (the ounces of silver that one ounce of Gold will be) is still quite low, ie it still has room to grow even after the current jump.
Given tthat I have significant PM holdings I am not buying any silver or Gold.
But I totally get Phideaux concern about the future of the greenback.
This is why I originally got into silver.
So as long as you temper any expectatins of big profits if you dont have any PMs at all it is still quite reaosnable to buy some.
if Gold I recommend Krugerrands since they are accpted everywhere and are the gold standard.
Also they are amalgated 1 oz Gold wiht some silver copper and Platinum to make it hard and not wear off too easily
Always an issue with fine Gold otherwise
As for silver I would go with 1 oz rounds.... the coin markups are just too crazy for me right now even for my former favorate Canadian Maple Leafs.
If I were to buy now it would be these silver rounds:
https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-silv...bullion.com/1-oz-mintid-buffalo-silver-round/The lowest Spread" over spot ( still higher than I like.. but it is what is it is) as far as silver buying right now this IS the best deal for various reasons. such as a classic recognized Walking Liberty motif from a well known mint.-
However there is still something to be said for Gold and Silver each.
Gold: yes its high but it is not trading at such a high %age premium over spot that SIlver is.
In Silvers favor is that its ratio to Gold (the ounces of silver that one ounce of Gold will be) is still quite low, ie it still has room to grow even after the current jump.
Given tthat I have significant PM holdings I am not buying any silver or Gold.
But I totally get Phideaux concern about the future of the greenback.
This is why I originally got into silver.
So as long as you temper any expectatins of big profits if you dont have any PMs at all it is still quite reaosnable to buy some.
if Gold I recommend Krugerrands since they are accpted everywhere and are the gold standard.
Also they are amalgated 1 oz Gold wiht some silver copper and Platinum to make it hard and not wear off too easily
Always an issue with fine Gold otherwise
As for silver I would go with 1 oz rounds.... the coin markups are just too crazy for me right now even for my former favorate Canadian Maple Leafs.
If I were to buy now it would be these silver rounds:
https://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-silv...bullion.com/1-oz-mintid-buffalo-silver-round/The lowest Spread" over spot ( still higher than I like.. but it is what is it is) as far as silver buying right now this IS the best deal for various reasons. such as a classic recognized Walking Liberty motif from a well known mint.-
There are many strategies to decide when to buy and when to sell. I am applying a strategy you see more in Day Trading - when you might buy something and then sell it in a few hours. Day trading is done off the charts, you couldn't care less if you were buying/selling gold vs. chinchilla pelts. This strategy is not useless in long term investments, but there are other ways to look at things there, and different things to consider. For example, if chinchillas were moved to the endangered species list, that would pretty much nuke your long term investment in their pelts. You might want to be aware of rumblings in the endangered species forums as you consider chinchillas for your long term monetary goals. But chinchilla protection orders would not be a major concern if you were day trading in them - say between breakfast and lunch. Unless you got really unlucky in your timing and bought 3 minutes before the endangered species announcement. But, if you are a good day trader, you would have already known that an announcement was due on chinchillas at 10am, and avoided the entire trade in the first place.
In case it wasn't obvious in my post above, I am a definite NO BUY for either. If you were forced to choose one or the other, I'd choose silver. But if I wasn't forced, I would not touch it right now. My best guess is that silver, now at around $19, will turn downwards at about $20, then it will turn back upwards around $11. And I am about 0.007% sure of that! If I turned out to be correct in my $20 prediction, I would buy at $11. $11-ish. I would do more detailed analysis first though. This is kindof off the cuff guessing at the moment (looking at a 30 year timespan chart!)
And only a crazy guy would have been buying up lead 5 years ago knowing that OSHA regulations would eventually shut down all domestic production of it.
Got lead?
It's now a 'semi-precious' metal....like mercury
.Sorry, no graphs available
.I love barter, and the expression on Maverick's face was PRICELESS!!
Silver, meh. Anybody can buy that everyday..
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Some of the day trading theory behind predicting a commodity will turn at the same point it turned last time:
The market variation is determined by "the big guys". The huge investment firms that have tons of smart people and tons of money to play with. They will predict that something will turn from dropping to gaining at $11, and they are a lot smarter than you or I. So they put in a ton of "buy orders" for $11. When the stock drops to that point, their buy orders are triggered and a huge amount of that commodity is bought on their behalf. This causes the price of the commodity to go up, because they buy such a huge amount. Individual traders are too small to affect the overall market like this. Anyway, the big guys buy orders caused the commodity to turn at their $11 point. The cause of the commodity turn is due to the big guys orders, be they buy or sell orders. Remember this! And not all of their buy orders got filled before the prices started going up again. So a portion of those buy orders are still sitting around waiting to be fulfilled the next time the commodity drops to $11.
That's where us individual day traders come in. We want to piggyback on the big guys. If we can predict that they still have unfulfilled buy orders sitting at $11, that's where we want to put OUR buy orders! We do this prediction based on the charts of historical prices. As I said in a post above, it doesn't matter if we're looking at gold or chinchillas. We are following market swings based on the big guys purchases/sales, not on anything inherent to chinchillas. OK, now you have to realize that there are not an infinite number of buy orders from the big guys for $11. Eventually those will all get fulfilled or canceled. So that $11 point that we identified is relatively short lived. Once you see the price drop to $11 and bounce back up two or three times, you have to assume that all those unfulfilled buy orders have dwindled away to nothing. So there is no reason for the individual day trader to hang on to $11 as a magic price anymore. Abandon it, do research into other commodities, and be on your way. This is also why day trading strategies are not always the best for long term investing. Say the big guys had their buy orders set for $11. Do you think that those unfulfilled buy orders are still going to be hanging around for 12 years? No, they would have been cancelled by then.
Day trading is basically "Get in, then get out quickly". You will end up with more losing trades than winning trades. That is guaranteed. However, you structure things so that your winners bring you LOTS of money and your losers take away only a LITTLE money. Therefore, if you did ten trades in a day and you made money on two but lost money on eight, those two winners would have brought in enough money to cover all the losers, and then some. You have to do some analysis and determine if you expect the commodity to go up much more than go down. You might set a buy point at $11 and then a subsequent sell point at $20. So you are grabbing your winnings of $9 per share. But, and this is very important, before you set your sell order at $20, you have already set a "stopper" at $10. So you are cutting and running if you hit a $1 loss. So you can see how your winners gain you much more than your losers take from you.
You can probably guess that the big guys control the market. If they want a stock to turn at $11, all's they have to do is put in a ton of buy orders at $11. That's it. The sheer volume of their buy orders will force the market to turn. Because they wanted it to. Now, this is illegal, trying to influence the market. But impossible to prove. So it happens all the time. Since we as individual traders can't do anything about it, well, we just ride along piggybacking on the big guys and grab some profits right alongside of them. Similarly, you will find some shadier investment firms that in their greed, want to take advantage of not-too-savvy traders. So they publish reports saying, "This stock is HOT. We recommend you buy it when it drops to $11". Now why would they say that if it were bad advice? Because they are sitting on a ton of that stock with sell orders for $11. They want to dupe you into buying, because they can't sell anything unless there is a buyer for it. They want to dump this stock, and you are the perfect sucker to dump it on. Most investment firms are not like this. But some are. And you'd be surprised at the well known names of some of them.
Another point that may be becoming obvious. In order for you, the individual trader, to buy a stock there has to be someone willing to sell it to you. Ditto for the reverse if you want to sell a stock. You have to realize that your gain may well be some elses loss. Not always, but that's often times how it works out. You don't personally have to find a buyer, that's what brokers do. If THEY can't find a buyer, that is the definition of an "unfulfilled order". So basically, you are depending on always finding someone stupider than you are. This is not difficult in the market. So when I say to sell your gold now, that implies that some poor fool will buy it. You are hoping that your decision to sell was the right one and you dumped it right before it crashed. But what of the poor fool who bought it from you? They took it in the shorts. That's why you don't want to be in the stock market, day trading especially, unless you know what you are doing. You sold your chinchillas because you'd researched chatter on the eco forums about endangered species. You were informed and knew what you were doing. Your buyer bought your chinchillas because they liked the color of their fur. Maybe not the brightest move on their part. But without them, the market wouldn't work.
p.s. - Above I was using example of "Buy low, Sell high". The opposite can be done as well, "Sell high, Buy low." You may ask, "How do you sell something that you don't own?" That's easy. Your broker "loans" it to you. You promise to pay them back for it later. So you sell it (the loaned stuff) when it's high, then buy it again when it's low. Then you give it back to the broker who loaned it to you. This is called "shorting". Or course, if you sell it high, and then it goes even higher, you don't have much choice other than to sell it and take a loss when you "return" it to the broker. But this is no different than before, you set a stopper at a small increase in price to limit your losses. In this case, you stopper is ABOVE your original initial sell price. In a "buy low, sell high" transaction, your stopper is BELOW your initial buy price.
The market variation is determined by "the big guys". The huge investment firms that have tons of smart people and tons of money to play with. They will predict that something will turn from dropping to gaining at $11, and they are a lot smarter than you or I. So they put in a ton of "buy orders" for $11. When the stock drops to that point, their buy orders are triggered and a huge amount of that commodity is bought on their behalf. This causes the price of the commodity to go up, because they buy such a huge amount. Individual traders are too small to affect the overall market like this. Anyway, the big guys buy orders caused the commodity to turn at their $11 point. The cause of the commodity turn is due to the big guys orders, be they buy or sell orders. Remember this! And not all of their buy orders got filled before the prices started going up again. So a portion of those buy orders are still sitting around waiting to be fulfilled the next time the commodity drops to $11.
That's where us individual day traders come in. We want to piggyback on the big guys. If we can predict that they still have unfulfilled buy orders sitting at $11, that's where we want to put OUR buy orders! We do this prediction based on the charts of historical prices. As I said in a post above, it doesn't matter if we're looking at gold or chinchillas. We are following market swings based on the big guys purchases/sales, not on anything inherent to chinchillas. OK, now you have to realize that there are not an infinite number of buy orders from the big guys for $11. Eventually those will all get fulfilled or canceled. So that $11 point that we identified is relatively short lived. Once you see the price drop to $11 and bounce back up two or three times, you have to assume that all those unfulfilled buy orders have dwindled away to nothing. So there is no reason for the individual day trader to hang on to $11 as a magic price anymore. Abandon it, do research into other commodities, and be on your way. This is also why day trading strategies are not always the best for long term investing. Say the big guys had their buy orders set for $11. Do you think that those unfulfilled buy orders are still going to be hanging around for 12 years? No, they would have been cancelled by then.
Day trading is basically "Get in, then get out quickly". You will end up with more losing trades than winning trades. That is guaranteed. However, you structure things so that your winners bring you LOTS of money and your losers take away only a LITTLE money. Therefore, if you did ten trades in a day and you made money on two but lost money on eight, those two winners would have brought in enough money to cover all the losers, and then some. You have to do some analysis and determine if you expect the commodity to go up much more than go down. You might set a buy point at $11 and then a subsequent sell point at $20. So you are grabbing your winnings of $9 per share. But, and this is very important, before you set your sell order at $20, you have already set a "stopper" at $10. So you are cutting and running if you hit a $1 loss. So you can see how your winners gain you much more than your losers take from you.
You can probably guess that the big guys control the market. If they want a stock to turn at $11, all's they have to do is put in a ton of buy orders at $11. That's it. The sheer volume of their buy orders will force the market to turn. Because they wanted it to. Now, this is illegal, trying to influence the market. But impossible to prove. So it happens all the time. Since we as individual traders can't do anything about it, well, we just ride along piggybacking on the big guys and grab some profits right alongside of them. Similarly, you will find some shadier investment firms that in their greed, want to take advantage of not-too-savvy traders. So they publish reports saying, "This stock is HOT. We recommend you buy it when it drops to $11". Now why would they say that if it were bad advice? Because they are sitting on a ton of that stock with sell orders for $11. They want to dupe you into buying, because they can't sell anything unless there is a buyer for it. They want to dump this stock, and you are the perfect sucker to dump it on. Most investment firms are not like this. But some are. And you'd be surprised at the well known names of some of them.
Another point that may be becoming obvious. In order for you, the individual trader, to buy a stock there has to be someone willing to sell it to you. Ditto for the reverse if you want to sell a stock. You have to realize that your gain may well be some elses loss. Not always, but that's often times how it works out. You don't personally have to find a buyer, that's what brokers do. If THEY can't find a buyer, that is the definition of an "unfulfilled order". So basically, you are depending on always finding someone stupider than you are. This is not difficult in the market. So when I say to sell your gold now, that implies that some poor fool will buy it. You are hoping that your decision to sell was the right one and you dumped it right before it crashed. But what of the poor fool who bought it from you? They took it in the shorts. That's why you don't want to be in the stock market, day trading especially, unless you know what you are doing. You sold your chinchillas because you'd researched chatter on the eco forums about endangered species. You were informed and knew what you were doing. Your buyer bought your chinchillas because they liked the color of their fur. Maybe not the brightest move on their part. But without them, the market wouldn't work.
p.s. - Above I was using example of "Buy low, Sell high". The opposite can be done as well, "Sell high, Buy low." You may ask, "How do you sell something that you don't own?" That's easy. Your broker "loans" it to you. You promise to pay them back for it later. So you sell it (the loaned stuff) when it's high, then buy it again when it's low. Then you give it back to the broker who loaned it to you. This is called "shorting". Or course, if you sell it high, and then it goes even higher, you don't have much choice other than to sell it and take a loss when you "return" it to the broker. But this is no different than before, you set a stopper at a small increase in price to limit your losses. In this case, you stopper is ABOVE your original initial sell price. In a "buy low, sell high" transaction, your stopper is BELOW your initial buy price.
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- Joined
- Dec 4, 2017
- Messages
- 7,314
Ummm, silver is over $23 right now. I'm happy as I was buying between $14 - $17.
And only a crazy guy would have been buying up lead 5 years ago knowing that OSHA regulations would eventually shut down all domestic production of it.
Got lead?
It's now a 'semi-precious' metal....like mercury
Sorry, no graphs available
I love barter, and the expression on Maverick's face was PRICELESS!!View attachment 46934
Silver, meh. Anybody can buy that everyday..
Since they stopped making wheel balance weights out of lead...ammo loaders will pay almost as much as silver ,well not quite, but they are buying it around here for $3-$4 lb.
Even more if it's melted and cast in 1lb bars with 2% tin and alimony.
I ain't too good with pm.
But I'm rich in lead.
Jim
