Water Tanks -- Anyone have experience with large (500+ gallon) tanks?

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Tacitus

Tacitus

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I'm thinking about getting a water tank and putting it in the garage. That is, a big one...maybe 750 gallons.

I have one now, but it is a thin skin plastic 50 gallon barrel like the one below.
Augason-Farms-Water-Storage-Barrel-55-Gallon-Drum.jpg


Anyone have any experience with large tanks? I live in the suburbs, so I don't want to draw too much attention. I'm thinking about putting one under my deck. Or, maybe one like the linked 750 gallon, Tri-Layer Water Tank in the back corner of my garage.
590291_300.jpg


Anyone have any experience with these types of tanks?

"Tri-Layer" sounds better than single layer...although being able to see the water level ("viewing through the manway") seems to undo some of that implied strength.

The "anti-bacterial coated internal layer" also sounds good. Not sure how long that would last.

Or, maybe I should get a more ordinary tank? Or a steel one?

I've been saving for a tank for quite some time, so I can pull the trigger on a three-figure (multi-hundred gallon) tank like this. But, four-figure (multi-thousand gallon tanks) are still out of my reach right now.

Water is my achilles heel right now. Once I get bigger tank, I will feel much better about storage (while still thinking about fresh water sources as opposed to mere storage).
 
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Is it for drinking or for washing and watering- or both? Leigh at "5 acres and a dream" has large ones to catch rainwater but I believe for watering garden and critters. @Sewingcreations15 or @Tank-Girl might have some good input since Australia uses water tanks for homes. This is our Achilles heal too.
 
There was a comment recently (sorry can't remember which thread) about using hot water tanks without the heating unit which I thought was a good idea - safe to drink from. Plastics worry me a bit, especially over time. Will be curious to other input.
 
The blue plastic 50 gallon barrels certainly work and can be put places that the big tanks cannot. I have 2 of the caged ICB tanks (275 gal) that I use with my rainwater collection. I drain them in the winter because I use that water for the garden. This year I left a blue 50 gallon barrel full of water sitting on the south side of my house and fully exposed to the sun. It never froze all winter even though temps here often got to the single digits. The sun here does have a lot of power though.
 
Have lived with water tanks to 5,000 gallons. I had a 2,000 gallon plastic tank that the city filled with water, unknown to me. At -30℉ or -40℃ I had one giant popsicle. I like plastic tanks. That plastic tank thawed without issue and is still in use today. Steel tanks rust. Aluminium tanks get pin holes in them and leak. Besides that I don't think aluminium is healthy for you. Wood tanks are fine. Concrete is possibly my favourite especially if it is incorporated into a foundation so it doesn't freeze. Concrete can leak so a custom plastic liner may have to be part of the deal. My mom has a 3.500 gallon stainless steel tank that was custom made. JK it is off an old water truck. I have lived with water tanks and rain collection since I was a teen. I have built and maintained cisterns of many kinds. We even used an above ground swimming pool for our water tank for many years. Come to think of it that was way more than 5,000 gallons. P.S. Don't let Dad catch you swimming in the water tank.
 
I would think the piping is the weak point in winter. I would recommend leaving that part dry or insulated with a heat tape. There aren't many climates that the tank would freeze in. We lived off grid with an exposed 275 gallon tank in the Pacific Northwest. The 3/4 inch line ran about 300 feet. It was only covered with leaves. I guess our saving grace was we had it spring fed and just let it run a little.
 
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Be careful about plastic water tanks. You probably know this but some are food grade (for potable water) and others are not. You don't want to be drinking out of the wrong kind. Most filters will not filter short chain molecules that dissolved in water from plastic so make sure you get food grade plastic.
 
I used to work for a company that modified and sold plastic tanks. I have also worked on steel tanks.
If you do decide to go with plastic, go with polypropylene or polyethylene for drinking water. If you put it in ground you should not have any freezing. You may have trouble with ground heaving in the winter. If you back fill with sand, you shouldn't have any trouble with tank distortion.
They are pretty easy to work on too. I have welded in different bungs for piping, mounts for pipes and other equipment that go into the tanks.
If I was near where you live i'd help you out if you needed it.
Even brand new steel tanks can cause issues. They need to be epoxy coated but need to be sand blasted even if new before it's coated. You won't have to worry about an epoxy coating leaching into the water. It doesn't leach even into gasoline which most if not all steel underground gasoline tanks are epoxy coated. The cost of steel is prohibitive for most folks not doing anything commercial. Most new underground gas tanks are fiberglass now days.
 
I have 3 white 75 gallon tanks similar to the one below in my basement. They are fed from 2 downspout water tanks via PVC piping. The piping is disassembled and the tanks capped prior to the first freeze of the winter and then put back on in early summer. The set up sits right next to my whole-house water filtration system and near my hot water heater (which can provide additional water if needed). It's not a perfect system and needs improvement, but it does provide me approx. 225 gallons of additional water stores for the summer months.


white.jpg
 
@Tacitus we have a 5000 gallon fibreglass tank which holds a little over that at 2500 litres and 2 x 3000 gallon poly rainwater tanks that run our home. Both are out in the open and not under cover. We get down to -10 - -11 oc in winter here with frosts and they don't freeze and we can get water at any time. The trick is to have your pipework for the tanks 30 cm or more underground to stop the pipes freezing.

Depending on your water usage and we use about a third of our large rainwater tank in a year for the home for drinking, washing clothing, hot water in the shower, baths, washing up etc. If you are looking at supplying rainwater for gardens as well for an off grid scenario for a small garden watering at 2 litres per hour through a drip irrigation system watering every day for about 15 minutes you would use about 27 000 litres of water just there or over 5000 gallons without rain factored in. We have 7 garden beds here each of about 2 square metres in size or 14 square metres with 3 lines of drip irrigation line with 30 cm apart drippers.

I hope this helps and bear in mind we are really frugal on water here.
 
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We have three of these...our house has a metal roof and gutters, water goes into the tanks...one of these tanks is piped into hubbys bathroom and we use that water for house use as well, have a filter for it, when our town burned, there was no water, all electricity was cut off...we used water from our hand dug well to keep putting out burning debris to save our place and neighbors...I feel more secure knowing we have water...
1909172_635539656494704_230815956_o.jpg
 
Sportsman's guide has used food grade pickle barrels for sale from time to time. I think they hold 58 gallons. I would be wary of anything that wasn't food grade.

I would consider something that could be temporary, like a wood frame with a plastic liner, for non potable water, or to collect rainwater in a short term situation. I don't like large tanks that are outdoors. Too much chance of problems...we have a 1000 gallon tank on the farm, mounted in a van trailer. It's used for refilling the sprayers for weed control. Those plastic tanks can degrade if exposed to UV and contaminants seem to find their way in, no matter how tight it's sealed...
 
Tacitus said:
This might be an "under-deck" tank, of 1500 gallons. Twice the size as the tri-layer one above, while not much more in cost. I would worry about freezing water in winter, though.
norwesco_5000_gallon_102_dia_tank_black_300.jpg
Click to expand...
This is the tank I try to talk people into getting, if they have a place to put it, out of site, if possible. If a float valve is installed, city water could fill it and then just a 1/2 hp pump could be hooked up to the outlet of the tank and be connected to a pressure tank that would work great for supplying the home with water and with a generator or battery powered pump, you'd have water even if you lost grid power. I'm considering adding a tank like this to my 1,100 gallon concrete storage tank at the top of our property, I'd feel better having greater water storage and if I fed this extra tank directly from the spring and then let the full tank overflow into the 1,100 cistern, the new tank probably not freeze, due to a constant flow in and out of the tank. The poly tank could be wrapped with insulation or even have an insulated shed built around it. These tanks can be well sealed to keep bugs or whatever out, I have friends that use these tanks for there homes, they are food grade and some that I have seen have been outside for years without breaking down, however a small shed around them would be best, our neighbor on our east side has this tank in a pump house, he also has a 2,500 gallon poly tank on the hill behind his home that being constantly filled with spring water, so far it's never froze. The access manhole cover can be sealed with a gasket. Actually there a number of shapes and sizes you can get in these poly or other types of tanks.
 
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Hi all. I have been doing some research on water tanks for a camp I have. I was going to install a well, but it will be about $14,000 to do so being they have to drill 400'. I don't want to waste the money on it if it's not guaranteed to provide water plus there is some fracking going on not too far from my camp and I am concerned about the water source being put in jeopardy from that.

Next option is rain water collection. I was looking at doing a 2,500 gallon tank behind my wood shed OR do 4 - 550 gallon tanks piped together behind my camp and build a deck over them to conceal them, but still be able to have enough access to get to them. Either option they would be above ground and the problem is Winter and freezing. The option to bury the tank is out of the question. I am up on a mountain and its pretty rocky. When I spoke to the gentlemen that built the camp he said he was only able to go down 4' until he hit solid rock for the wood piers its on. Right now I have a 100 gallon rain barrel in the bathroom with heat tape wrapped around it to prevent it from freezing in the Winter and that has been working fine for 4-5 years now.

I am not there full time and it's more of a weekend retreat once a month or once every two months. The Winter temps can get pretty cold ranging in the negative degree weather. I do happen to be lucky enough to have 120/240v electric.

I was looking into something known as a "powerblanket", but it is very expensive for any tank option and it is going to cost money to use the electric to keep the tank from freezing, plus the powerblankets only last 4-6 years from what the FAQ section says on their website.

I was wondering if any of you have experience with dealing with keeping your water from freezing in the Winter. I was looking into a float that Tractor Supply sells that keeps live stock tanks from freezing, but it says they are only good for up to 300 gallon tanks. I was possibly thinking if I insulate the 550 gallon tanks and use the float in them it may have a chance, but I will still have to deal with the rain getting to the insulation and this route may start costing me some more money than I anticipated.

I was also thinking of using some time of circulation pump inside the 2,500 gallon tank to prevent the water from freezing, but am not sure how that would work.

Has anybody here used a long section of heat tape at all and how is that working for you? The only downside to that is if the power goes out, however I do have a couple of full time residents down the road after my camp, so if they lost power I am sure the electric provider would be pretty prompt to restore it for them and I don't think it would be out for that long.

Any ideas would be very helpful and I appreciate your help and feedback.

Thank you,
Yeti
 
Amish Heart said:
Hi Yeti. Where'd you come from?
Click to expand...

Hi,
I figured I’d have to reach out to a more local like-minded crowd rather than just do some basic search engine searches for the information I am seeking. So I figured homesteaders would be the best place to go. People actually doing it, living it, breathing it. The search engine results were really limited with information and I’d rather get info from real people that have gone through this before to get ideas.

I live in NJ, but my camp is in North Central PA. A couple of trips up there with the windchill it has reached -23 degrees F. I remember drinking a beer by the bonfire outside and my beer was literally freezing in the bottle I was holding.

Yeti
 
sweatyyeti said:
Hi all. I have been doing some research on water tanks for a camp I have. I was going to install a well, but it will be about $14,000 to do so being they have to drill 400'. I don't want to waste the money on it if it's not guaranteed to provide water plus there is some fracking going on not too far from my camp and I am concerned about the water source being put in jeopardy from that.

Next option is rain water collection. I was looking at doing a 2,500 gallon tank behind my wood shed OR do 4 - 550 gallon tanks piped together behind my camp and build a deck over them to conceal them, but still be able to have enough access to get to them. Either option they would be above ground and the problem is Winter and freezing. The option to bury the tank is out of the question. I am up on a mountain and its pretty rocky. When I spoke to the gentlemen that built the camp he said he was only able to go down 4' until he hit solid rock for the wood piers its on. Right now I have a 100 gallon rain barrel in the bathroom with heat tape wrapped around it to prevent it from freezing in the Winter and that has been working fine for 4-5 years now.

I am not there full time and it's more of a weekend retreat once a month or once every two months. The Winter temps can get pretty cold ranging in the negative degree weather. I do happen to be lucky enough to have 120/240v electric.

I was looking into something known as a "powerblanket", but it is very expensive for any tank option and it is going to cost money to use the electric to keep the tank from freezing, plus the powerblankets only last 4-6 years from what the FAQ section says on their website.

I was wondering if any of you have experience with dealing with keeping your water from freezing in the Winter. I was looking into a float that Tractor Supply sells that keeps live stock tanks from freezing, but it says they are only good for up to 300 gallon tanks. I was possibly thinking if I insulate the 550 gallon tanks and use the float in them it may have a chance, but I will still have to deal with the rain getting to the insulation and this route may start costing me some more money than I anticipated.

I was also thinking of using some time of circulation pump inside the 2,500 gallon tank to prevent the water from freezing, but am not sure how that would work.

Has anybody here used a long section of heat tape at all and how is that working for you? The only downside to that is if the power goes out, however I do have a couple of full time residents down the road after my camp, so if they lost power I am sure the electric provider would be pretty prompt to restore it for them and I don't think it would be out for that long.

Any ideas would be very helpful and I appreciate your help and feedback.

Thank you,
Yeti
Click to expand...
I lived off an outside water tank at -40º. Closed cell spray foam insulation is important. If you can dig down 4' and partially bury the tank ground heat should help warm your tank. I used an electric heater in the tank on occasion but we had weekly water delivery so freezing was of little consequence. If you bury your tank you will not want to insulate the base but you will want a layer of sand to protect the tank.

A layer of Ice around the sides only reduces your volume and that comes back when it thaws. Putting you half buried tank inside an insulated water shed will further help protect your insulated tank plus it will add rain collection.

I had hydronic baseboard heating in my home so I just ran a hundred feet of 1/2" pex off the boiler, with no thermostat but with the zone valve open, so when ever any other zone came on some heat went into my water.
 
Pipe the water into the top of the tank and out the bottom, this forces the water to circulate by gravity. The last thing you want is water sitting in a tank stagnant. that is how the water gets contaminated
in this drawing I am showing piping the water into the tanks then out to the house, this will keep your stored water fresh, circulated, I put in a bypass for maintenance and vents above the tanks to stop air lock.
water heater tanks have a dip tube inserted in the cold side where the water connects. this needs to be removed. stick your finger in the hole and bend finger while lifting hand up

house print.jpg
 
Caribou said:
I lived off an outside water tank at -40º. Closed cell spray foam insulation is important. If you can dig down 4' and partially bury the tank ground heat should help warm your tank. I used an electric heater in the tank on occasion but we had weekly water delivery so freezing was of little consequence. If you bury your tank you will not want to insulate the base but you will want a layer of sand to protect the tank.

A layer of Ice around t

I had hydronic baseboard heating in my home so I just ran a hundred feet of 1/2" pex off the boiler, with no thermostat but with the zone valve open, so when ever any other zone came on some heat went into my water.
Click to expand...
Tacitus said:
I'm thinking about getting a water tank and putting it in the garage. That is, a big one...maybe 750 gallons.

I have one now, but it is a thin skin plastic 50 gallon barrel like the one below.
Augason-Farms-Water-Storage-Barrel-55-Gallon-Drum.jpg


Anyone have any experience with large tanks? I live in the suburbs, so I don't want to draw too much attention. I'm thinking about putting one under my deck. Or, maybe one like the linked 750 gallon, Tri-Layer Water Tank in the back corner of my garage.
590291_300.jpg


Anyone have any experience with these types of tanks?

"Tri-Layer" sounds better than single layer...although being able to see the water level ("viewing through the manway") seems to undo some of that implied strength.

The "anti-bacterial coated internal layer" also sounds good. Not sure how long that would last.

Or, maybe I should get a more ordinary tank? Or a steel one?

I've been saving for a tank for quite some time, so I can pull the trigger on a three-figure (multi-hundred gallon) tank like this. But, four-figure (multi-thousand gallon tanks) are still out of my reach right now.

Water is my achilles heel right now. Once I get bigger tank, I will feel much better about storage (while still thinking about fresh water sources as opposed to mere storage).
Click to expand...
according to fema you should replace the water ever 6 months max
 
At 8 to 10 feet down the soil stays at 50 to 55 degrees all year long. Bury the tank and you have no problems. If it is a steel tank then you will want to protect it from rust on the outside. Closed cell spray foam is good to prevent rust and won't wear off like paint.
 
If you go with a steel tank paint both inside and outside. they make special paint for the inside of water tanks. I've had steel tanks rot from the inside. I've seen multiple aluminium tanks with pinholes all over them. On my parents property we currently have wood tanks, concrete, stainless steel, and a couple 5,000 gallon plastic tanks. Previously we used an above ground swimming pool for our rain catchment system. The plastic are my favourite. The plastic should be opaque. I prefer black but if you spray them with closed cell foam it doesn't matter. If the sun can get through then you water turns green.
 
I like all the ideas that you all have come up with. I am looking for the longevity of it to be there, so I am definitely going to go with the plastic over anything else.

As Frodo mentioned something along the lines of having either a separate bulkhead at the bottom of the tank or a splitter off of the main bulkhead with a pipe coming out of that and going back to the top of the tank to have the tanks own gravity pressure push the water up to the top of the tank causing a natural circulation and water flow may be useful. I think I would only really need to insulate the piping and have heat tape along it to prevent the pipe from freezing.

I’ll have to do some research to see if the Norwesco above ground tanks can handle being partially buried in the ground without compromising the integral structure of the units.

My brother in law works for an insulation company and has closed cell foam insulation there so I’ve asked him if his employees doing the install have sprayed anybody’s water tanks before and what his thoughts are on it.

He did reply to me regarding the CCF insulation and said “Closed cell foam would work great for that Every 1inch of foam is an R6.7 its gets hard like a rock mold resistant water resistant the only thing is foam is still expensive to spray. That container would fall into the min job price of $2000. Each company has a min job price unless you find some small time guy he would probably give you the best price. I think 2 or more inches would be perfect. We charge normally $1.10 per inch per square foot.”

Good to know.
 
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