Watersheds,rivers,fish and more

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elkhound

elkhound

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Just doing a thread to post various things about restoring watersheds back to more free flowing for overall better water quality and fish habitat and still have some use from it for humans.

The Kalmath river and its dam removal is a project to help get better fish spawning and more fish.One thing with this project as well as many others is reality of aging infrastructure and cost benefit from fixing it.Kalmath dams were going to cost more to fix than it was to tear them down.Theres still going to be dams way up river but these 4 dams are going to open up so much habitat.This river was the 3rd largest salmon fish producer on west coast.

 
Bear river update...whats sad to hear is the little dam that was used for getting towns water was not in use since mid 1980's..it just was there blocking fish habitat and more for over 34 years..all that time and yearly fish production just lost to time.Also much of the things are so old school and with a little creative design and more by changing a few things theres still going to be irrigation from this river just now its not blocked off so fish can migrate as need to .

one thing about old dams often they are very short dams under 6ft and not been in use especially on eastern half of u.s. for well over 100 years often.Theres 1000's of these little dams being removed now and its going to let fish run and spawn.Especially bait fish that larger fish feed on and in coastal areas bait fish that feeds ocean fish when going back and forth living out their life cycle..like shad and more.

Why is all this important..i am hunter and fisherman and more the better habitat gets better outdoor experiences and plus one day in future in a post industrial society/world these places will be repositories to turn what we have done to planet and give it a huge jump start in recovery and more.

 
From video description

Salmon returning to spawn in their native rivers face many obstacles including nearly impossible-to-navigate waterfalls. In this short video, I show you an ingenious fish ladder that allows salmon to by-pass a narrow gorge and waterfall to reach the headwaters of a river where they'll spawn and regenerate their species. This fish ladder is on the Stamp River, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada. Let's have a look...


 
Building better fish ladders. This one was built in 2021 but theres was one already built and it tested out and works so well they will be building more.

 
backlash said:
There is a big push to get salmon back to areas they used to spawn in Washington.
The Federal Government lost a huge case and they are now making great progress in getting salmon back to area they haven't been able to reach in decades or centuries.
My brother worked on this project.
Click to expand...
 
DrHenley said:
I sure hope they DO NOT take the dam down near our new place. Below the dam you can only eat one fish a month due to mercury and PCB levels. Above the dam you can eat to your heart's content. The dam is why we don't have any contaminated fish.
Click to expand...
I admittedly don't know the details but an Environmental Engineer once told me...

"The solution of pollution is dilution."

More flow, less concentration


Ben
 
DrHenley said:
I sure hope they DO NOT take the dam down near our new place. Below the dam you can only eat one fish a month due to mercury and PCB levels. Above the dam you can eat to your heart's content. The dam is why we don't have any contaminated fish.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the dams out west that are blocking the salmon runs. Admittedly I don't know much about the rivers or fish runs back east.
 
Mountain trapper said:
I'd be fine if all dams are taken down. Especially the ones on the Columbia and Snake rivers. And while we're dreaming here, all the indian nets should be banned on Columbia and the illegal foreign fishing boats along the coast should be sunk.
Click to expand...
you are always negative about conservation and the effort to make things better..this nation has an aging infrastructure problem going on..coupled with costs benefit ratio many dams have been removed or on plan. they no longer function or in use...as far as natives go....the small bit they harvest is nothing compared to trollers etc. we have to start somewhere and recognize the places it aint going to happen..you knew before you posted lets unblock the columbia that will not happen...you just want to be a debbie downer and piss on anything i post about saving land or improving hunting and fishing and daily life..often these efforts are low cost solutions and often theres huge dangers involved...theres 1000's of little less than 10ft or 6ft dams already been removed across entire nation. on east coast one little fish ladder rebuild and redesign has resulted in having 30k fish a year in 2007 to over 1 million fish going up and spawning now...another little ladder had less than 2k fish and now has 3million fish.

stop pissing and moaning about all or nothing...the more we fix and get runs back the more recreational stuff plus more commercial fishing might happen in future..we have to start somewhere and this is start..we are seeing it now..all across globe its happening in fact.

the atlantic salmon up a river..blank right now on name...has had some dam removal and new fish ladders on dams left in place because of need for power etc. from them has had increase of fish but last year was only 2k fish....i think we need to look at trapping a few thousand land locked atlantic salmon and dropping them in river to get more genetics and to give it a jump start...not a fish biologist but i dont see why not..we have created fish runs where they didnt exist before...like steelhead out of great lakes and chinnok.

as a trapper you should want these things..moire fish more predators to trap like mink and otter. just in my area i seen otters return and more mink and beaver on river..oh and bald eagles...i seen first osprey here in 1990.
 
heres a prime example of a small dam thats not been used in 100 years but yet it still there blocking fish and much more.

one interest i have is..my opinion is one day we will not have an industrial society....in a post industrial society we need as many of natural systems up and running so humans can have them to live again..plus if we dont get them done now they might not get removed until they natural crumble on their own.


 
Nov 6, 2021
Throughout the late nineteenth century, as many as eleven low head dams were built along the Baraboo River in southwest Wisconsin. As time passed, maintaining these dams became a financial burden to the private landowners and communities that owned them. Beginning in the late 1990’s, a number of conservation groups along with city officials and citizens developed plans to remove dams along the Baraboo River. In October of 2001, the Linen Mill Dam was removed, resulting in a free-flowing river that had not been seen there since the 1930s. This film commemorates the 20 year anniversary of the dam removal project by revisiting the personal experiences of those involved and exploring the improvements to the water quality, fisheries, and adjacent communities since.


 
I don't like Damming up rivers, I know the Area @DrHenly is speaking of and the contamination level he is speaking of, The same thing was true in the areas west of Huntsville, Alabama in the area of Triana for a long time the Hg level was very high in the fish population for years. It is always better to contain the area of infiltration and work to decrease it with as much natural and low impact response as you can.
Fluid dynamics in a river system is VERY highly related to the topographic irregularities of the area and slow water eddying and tightening of the flow stream have a lot to do with depositing of contaminants in sediments and the fish population in the areas.
I have lived in most of the areas along the Tennessee, and all of the feeding tributaries, the Southern Mississippi and the smaller rivers most of my life, when I was young the water in the system was clear and you could open your eyes and see as if you were looking through glass unless it had rained, then there would be a little red clay or sandy in it for a bit. It is stagnant and greenish throughout a lot of the reservoirs in the system especially in the western end.

Before the dams in the area of the Rivers Bend there was a man made channel tray built for river traffic around the Town Creek, Florence, Muscle Shoals, Waterloo, Alabama area.
Wide shallow areas that roll the water and aerate it have a lot to do with eliminating stagnation.

Some things that are necessary sometimes seem less important as History turns the pages of time.
 
Just to be clear..i am a realist...not a tree huggin hippie nor a cut it all and pave it guy...i am for mining and logging...i am for conservation of resources and places left untouched or returned to untouched type..cut timber and plant back...we should look at each thing and weigh out greater good and more...like fish runs..especially bait type fish...world fish experts say theres no way to fish farm what we take from oceans..so lets improve bait fish thereby growing more and better fish to harvest both recreation and commercially...and when we see decline..cut back right then so as to not collapse a system..like cod in east has and is struggling to recover..we took it to far.....also in mining lets make owners set aside money and/or rehab places...we can do better from far off past times and we are..coal mines here are doing new things and we got trees growing and prairie type situations on reclaimed mine lands and have lots of elk and deer and more and growing each year.
 
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I am all for conservation. And not just in principle.
On our family land in the Mississippi Delta, we have been working with state and federal agencies on various wildlife habitat programs since the early 1970s. My father and uncle started it and we kept things going after they passed the baton.
We are actually getting paid for carbon credits now! You would not believe all the hoops you have to jump through to qualify. But the state guided us through all the red tape.
So when I bought our new place in southern Virginia last year, the first thing I did was get in contact with the state "private lands biologist" and ask what habitat programs they would work with me on. I've already begun work on a quail habitat program. They notified me earlier this month that I am pre-approved, but the paperwork hasn't been finished yet. But I didn't wait for the red tape to go through, I contacted a forester last year on my own and started doing things at my own expense that I will not get any cost sharing from the state on.
 
heres an interesting story...this wont ever be wilderness but it be a far cry better than just a concrete ditch. People need to get out in nature..even if its just bits and bobs of it.




 
Lino Jubilado has been fly fishing in the Los Angeles River for over 40 years. Though most LA residents view the river as a polluted eyesore, to Lino, it’s a slice of nature’s paradise hidden within a big, bustling city. Amongst the trash and the concrete, Lino fly fishes for carp, bass and bluegill. But it’s the joy of catching carp that keeps Lino coming back to the river several times a week. Lino doesn’t usually eat the carp he catches from the LA River, but today is unusual.


 
If you take and take and never give back or rest you get destroyed areas like Scotland,it use to be a forested area. Last several years i been seeing lots of tree planting along waterways to help lower water temps and get more fish spawning and more.Heres interesting story and example.

 
I have no dog in this fight. I just hope they do it properly to benefit the environment, the flora and fauna, and the human population. I hope it isn't some politician's boondoggle to pay off his or her cronies.
 
Too bad the destruction of dams on the Klamath has killed off this years run because of the silt. Going to be hard to catch up.

They damaged the upper portion with the dams. This “conservation” has done more damage

I do have a dog in this fight. I was looking forward to fishing it. I know what the lower end was like in the 70’s
 
EastenerWesterner said:
Too bad the destruction of dams on the Klamath has killed off this years run because of the silt. Going to be hard to catch up.

They damaged the upper portion with the dams. This “conservation” has done more damage

I do have a dog in this fight. I was looking forward to fishing it. I know what the lower end was like in the 70’s
Click to expand...
i understand...i think we will get through this and its going to be better in long run...the Elwha been through it as well as many others in Washington state...they all spawning salmon and more now.On elwha they thought summer steelhead was extinct it was first fish to recover..Did you see the biggest salmon fish kill back in whatever year...early to mid 2000's from high water temperatures...video shows in was awful from back then...EVERYTHING was dead in river.

they gathered up various suckers from behind the dams to get genetics and include them in the repopulation of suckers.they are at hatchery now so i have hope..suckers were a big source of food in spring during runs pre dam time.

one thing to is many folks dont realize this..these dams were going to cost huge amount of money to fix..the owners were going to tear them down over cost no matter...aging infrastructure we are facing will be repaired,rebuilt or demolished....please keep us posted if you visit and give us a real eyes on report in future please...take a few pictures if you able and dont mind .
 
Just saying it’s not a conservation move.They killed more off and hurt the population.

When I am going to be close by and the fishery killed off for a couple years. I wont live long enough to see it back to the 70’s levels.

Been there done that with Atlantic in Lake Ontario
 
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