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Thanks Terri. for the info. I know we put bell peppers in building one winter and they came back and really produced too. Didn't try toms yet.
Your welcome. When we still lived in S. TX we had the same tomatoes for 4 years before it got cold enough to kill them.
 
Your welcome. When we still lived in S. TX we had the same tomatoes for 4 years before it got cold enough to kill them.

So your plant zone is about the same as ours.

We are going to take down the reservoirs with squash and just leave up the buckets and containers.We will put squash n containers and soil and if it makes it ok and not ok too.

We had a really late start and heating problems. Now new heater so see if things work out. :dunno::)
 
So your plant zone is about the same as ours.

We are going to take down the reservoirs with squash and just leave up the buckets and containers.We will put squash n containers and soil and if it makes it ok and not ok too.

We had a really late start and heating problems. Now new heater so see if things work out. :dunno::)
We USED to be in zone 9. Right now we are in zone 8a and when we move up the mtn we will be at 6a.
 
Meerkat: This the section you were talking about? Hydroponics looks pretty good, now all I have to do is actually READ all this material!! Something tells me these things are not that easy to build, but once up, work great.
 
Venom Jockey, They are not hard to build but do require pre-build planning. You can purchase complete units but you still need to know what you are going to grow, when you plan to grow it and what kind and how many fish you will need to maintain your crops. Poor planning on your part WILL constitute an emergency later on. Your problem is the isolation factor. You cannot invite any experts out to the "Retreat" to help solve problems. If you go with a poly sheet style, how long will the plastic sheeting last? If you go with poly panels, how long will they last? How about glass panels, last forever if they don't get broken by hail or mishaps. Once you know the parameters, then you can move forward and be self sufficient. Since you have a trout stream available for restocking, I would suggest you plan on using trout as you food fish and plan the water temperature controls around their temp requirements. Heating and cooling the crops is the second requirement and not too difficult to maintain. There are many things to consider but all are doable, just plan it out first.
 
Venom Jockey, They are not hard to build but do require pre-build planning. You can purchase complete units but you still need to know what you are going to grow, when you plan to grow it and what kind and how many fish you will need to maintain your crops. Poor planning on your part WILL constitute an emergency later on. Your problem is the isolation factor. You cannot invite any experts out to the "Retreat" to help solve problems. If you go with a poly sheet style, how long will the plastic sheeting last? If you go with poly panels, how long will they last? How about glass panels, last forever if they don't get broken by hail or mishaps. Once you know the parameters, then you can move forward and be self sufficient. Since you have a trout stream available for restocking, I would suggest you plan on using trout as you food fish and plan the water temperature controls around their temp requirements. Heating and cooling the crops is the second requirement and not too difficult to maintain. There are many things to consider but all are doable, just plan it out first.

I'd say glass panels. It's all that piping that confuses the hell out of me, and you're correct, don't want to have to drag any experts out there. The fewer that ever know the location, the better. Got my boy looking at this stuff...he's better at construction than I ever was or will be....maybe he can figure it out. My idea is to pump all the water needed in from the stream. Yes, don't need any surprises later on...MRE's are ok, but I don't want a steady diet of them!
 
I'd say glass panels. It's all that piping that confuses the hell out of me, and you're correct, don't want to have to drag any experts out there. The fewer that ever know the location, the better. Got my boy looking at this stuff...he's better at construction than I ever was or will be....maybe he can figure it out. My idea is to pump all the water needed in from the stream. Yes, don't need any surprises later on...MRE's are ok, but I don't want a steady diet of them!

The drawing show on the one video is much more complex than required. 1) water pumped into fish tank. 2) Water gravity flows into grow beds. 3) Water flows out bottom of grow beds into sump pit and is pumped back into fish tank. Now that is the basics. There are of course filters, and water heaters and electrical and of course pumps, tanks and grow beds. The easy way is to buy a complete setup and have detail drawing made showing all the piping and connections. I would suggest 2 separate fish tanks and pump setups. This will help avoid a cross contamination that kills off all the fish. One tank feed one grow bed and the other tank feeds the remaining grow beds. Isolation is your friend but also your enemy. Detailed drawing will make Aquaponics possible and improve your chances of not relying on MRE's.
 
The drawing show on the one video is much more complex than required. 1) water pumped into fish tank. 2) Water gravity flows into grow beds. 3) Water flows out bottom of grow beds into sump pit and is pumped back into fish tank. Now that is the basics. There are of course filters, and water heaters and electrical and of course pumps, tanks and grow beds. The easy way is to buy a complete setup and have detail drawing made showing all the piping and connections. I would suggest 2 separate fish tanks and pump setups. This will help avoid a cross contamination that kills off all the fish. One tank feed one grow bed and the other tank feeds the remaining grow beds. Isolation is your friend but also your enemy. Detailed drawing will make Aquaponics possible and improve your chances of not relying on MRE's.

Yes, the video makes it look complicated as all get out. Maybe separating it into stages will help...do THIS, then do THAT... MRE's, even supplemented with fresh game, doesn't substitute for fresh veggies! Specially when ya love fried squash, eggplant, and bell peppers, and....well, you get the idea!
 
Yes, the video makes it look complicated as all get out. Maybe separating it into stages will help...do THIS, then do THAT... MRE's, even supplemented with fresh game, doesn't substitute for fresh veggies! Specially when ya love fried squash, eggplant, and bell peppers, and....well, you get the idea!

Hydroponics is less complicated but you will have to catch/trap your fish to eat and then store water soluble fertilized needed for the amount of time you plan to stay isolated. For a very long stay, it may be more prudent to go with hydroponics, as there is less equipment to fail and need replacing. As a last resort, you could convert a hydroponic system back into a plain Greenhouse and use animal fertilizer. Many pro's and cons to be weighed out. Isolation does present unique problems. Speaking of unique problems, you have a son, what is he going to do about a future family life? Just one more issue to deal with. Not going to meet many eligible ladies at the "Retreat". Better you than me on that problem.
 
Hydroponics is less complicated but you will have to catch/trap your fish to eat and then store water soluble fertilized needed for the amount of time you plan to stay isolated. For a very long stay, it may be more prudent to go with hydroponics, as there is less equipment to fail and need replacing. As a last resort, you could convert a hydroponic system back into a plain Greenhouse and use animal fertilizer. Many pro's and cons to be weighed out. Isolation does present unique problems. Speaking of unique problems, you have a son, what is he going to do about a future family life? Just one more issue to deal with. Not going to meet many eligible ladies at the "Retreat". Better you than me on that problem.

My son is 46, twice divorced, don't think that will be a problem. For some odd reason, women seem to think they can remake a man in their own image, and when that doesn't work, they go right off the deep end, followed by divorce. Doubt if anyone is going to remake my boy...he's got a mind of his own, and someone doesn't like it, well they can go their way, he'll go his way. The hydroponics is looking better than aquaponics to me...less complicated...not real fond of "complicated!" I'm not that good at construction.
 
My son is 46, twice divorced, don't think that will be a problem. For some odd reason, women seem to think they can remake a man in their own image, and when that doesn't work, they go right off the deep end, followed by divorce. Doubt if anyone is going to remake my boy...he's got a mind of his own, and someone doesn't like it, well they can go their way, he'll go his way. The hydroponics is looking better than aquaponics to me...less complicated...not real fond of "complicated!" I'm not that good at construction.

Okay we have solved the romance problem. So I think that hydroponics is going to be the best bet, You can fish or trap the trout. You can order a complete Greenhouse (dis assembled) that has all you will need, Grow bed, shelving, all ready to put together. It will not be cheap but yo can go visit the manufacture and take pictures of everything already setup. Then check out their documentation and request better doc's if it is not clear enough. I think glass is going to be the best option. Will last and not cloud over. Double pane for insulation and minimal heat /cooling loss. I think you can store enough water soluble fertilizer to last many decades. It might be interesting to experiment with chicken poop and dissolve some in water to determine if it is a viable source for the plants. In either case you are going to have the fun of civilized living and working form dawn to dusk. I think Protein is going to be your biggest problem. At first there will be plenty of game but soon enough, they will get smart and move further out. Vitamins maybe another problem area. You are going to need to grow some citrus or other plants to maintain proper nutrition. i think you need to develop a meal plan. I.E. what is for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What can you grow, what quantity can you store? Some items you will not be able to grow--- Coffee? Tea, sugar, pepper, salt, so how much are you going to need for the next 20 years? No barter on the mountain.

Now I am not pointing all this out just for you, most of us have not considered exactly how much of what we are really going to need /want or just how and where are we going to store or grow what we need or want. I think we do not spend enough time and effort in the details and just think about the big picture. Granted we all think we have to be prepared but just exactly is being prepared for each of us? Just a thought for each to consider.
 
Okay we have solved the romance problem. So I think that hydroponics is going to be the best bet, You can fish or trap the trout. You can order a complete Greenhouse (dis assembled) that has all you will need, Grow bed, shelving, all ready to put together. It will not be cheap but yo can go visit the manufacture and take pictures of everything already setup. Then check out their documentation and request better doc's if it is not clear enough. I think glass is going to be the best option. Will last and not cloud over. Double pane for insulation and minimal heat /cooling loss. I think you can store enough water soluble fertilizer to last many decades. It might be interesting to experiment with chicken poop and dissolve some in water to determine if it is a viable source for the plants. In either case you are going to have the fun of civilized living and working form dawn to dusk. I think Protein is going to be your biggest problem. At first there will be plenty of game but soon enough, they will get smart and move further out. Vitamins maybe another problem area. You are going to need to grow some citrus or other plants to maintain proper nutrition. i think you need to develop a meal plan. I.E. what is for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What can you grow, what quantity can you store? Some items you will not be able to grow--- Coffee? Tea, sugar, pepper, salt, so how much are you going to need for the next 20 years? No barter on the mountain.

Now I am not pointing all this out just for you, most of us have not considered exactly how much of what we are really going to need /want or just how and where are we going to store or grow what we need or want. I think we do not spend enough time and effort in the details and just think about the big picture. Granted we all think we have to be prepared but just exactly is being prepared for each of us? Just a thought for each to consider.

From what I am seeing, yes, I like the hydroponics best. Pess had/has enough protein powder stored out there to last years, ditto vitamin/mineral tabs. What to grow and how much of it to grow will be the issues. Meal planning, and then growing to fit the meal plans seems to be the best idea I can come up with. Condiments can be stored literally forever, don't foresee that as a problem....there is a LOT of storage area out there!! Game will get smart, as you say...won't do them any good...the cavern provides entrances to two other valleys, and where else can they go but those valleys? Which reminds me, Pess was always saying, "We're missing something here. There's a use for this cavern, and we're missing it." Well, I'm STILL missing it, and Pess doesn't even remember it, and my boy has never seen the place yet....you have any ideas??

We had a rather interesting beginning to the morning...see my message in the new "thread?" I put up.
 
Yes, the video makes it look complicated as all get out. Maybe separating it into stages will help...do THIS, then do THAT... MRE's, even supplemented with fresh game, doesn't substitute for fresh veggies! Specially when ya love fried squash, eggplant, and bell peppers, and....well, you get the idea!

It was just the first one that came up you can do it alot less complicated than this and it will work fine. We just didn't do enough homework when we tried it. :thumbs up:
 
My son is 46, twice divorced, don't think that will be a problem. For some odd reason, women seem to think they can remake a man in their own image, and when that doesn't work, they go right off the deep end, followed by divorce. Doubt if anyone is going to remake my boy...he's got a mind of his own, and someone doesn't like it, well they can go their way, he'll go his way. The hydroponics is looking better than aquaponics to me...less complicated...not real fond of "complicated!" I'm not that good at construction.

" not real fond of complicated" :I agree::D. Us either. We need some young people out here for complicated and that ain't happening unless it is a have to on their end.
 
Okay we have solved the romance problem. So I think that hydroponics is going to be the best bet, You can fish or trap the trout. You can order a complete Greenhouse (dis assembled) that has all you will need, Grow bed, shelving, all ready to put together. It will not be cheap but yo can go visit the manufacture and take pictures of everything already setup. Then check out their documentation and request better doc's if it is not clear enough. I think glass is going to be the best option. Will last and not cloud over. Double pane for insulation and minimal heat /cooling loss. I think you can store enough water soluble fertilizer to last many decades. It might be interesting to experiment with chicken poop and dissolve some in water to determine if it is a viable source for the plants. In either case you are going to have the fun of civilized living and working form dawn to dusk. I think Protein is going to be your biggest problem. At first there will be plenty of game but soon enough, they will get smart and move further out. Vitamins maybe another problem area. You are going to need to grow some citrus or other plants to maintain proper nutrition. i think you need to develop a meal plan. I.E. what is for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What can you grow, what quantity can you store? Some items you will not be able to grow--- Coffee? Tea, sugar, pepper, salt, so how much are you going to need for the next 20 years? No barter on the mountain.

Now I am not pointing all this out just for you, most of us have not considered exactly how much of what we are really going to need /want or just how and where are we going to store or grow what we need or want. I think we do not spend enough time and effort in the details and just think about the big picture. Granted we all think we have to be prepared but just exactly is being prepared for each of us? Just a thought for each to consider.

Thats the way I see it but VenonJ wanted to look into aquaponics so I called him down here. :fun fun:It is too much work for us too. :eek::thumbs up:
 
Thats the way I see it but VenonJ wanted to look into aquaponics so I called him down here. :fun fun:It is too much work for us too. :eek::thumbs up:

You can help Venom Jockey with the real everyday knowledge required for the hydroponics. I can only touch on the logistical side. You can and hopefully will make suggestions to VJ on what worked for you and where you ran into problems and what he should consider and what is just hype from your experience. VJ is going to need a lot of hands on advice for all the folks that have actually done this. Just keep in mind that once VJ relocates, no outside help is going to be available. VJ is not as financially well off as Pess (not many are) but I don't think cost is going to be the main factor to consider. Long term reliability, crop potential (size & quantity) and ease of management. I chose the Aquaponic for the closed loop aspect but I am mechanically inclined and understand complex control systems and can do my own piping and electrical. VJ needs to have a stable food supply without any complex controls or high maintenance items. He has now been exposed to both types of system but he now needs some hands on advice.
 
You can help Venom Jockey with the real everyday knowledge required for the hydroponics. I can only touch on the logistical side. You can and hopefully will make suggestions to VJ on what worked for you and where you ran into problems and what he should consider and what is just hype from your experience. VJ is going to need a lot of hands on advice for all the folks that have actually done this. Just keep in mind that once VJ relocates, no outside help is going to be available. VJ is not as financially well off as Pess (not many are) but I don't think cost is going to be the main factor to consider. Long term reliability, crop potential (size & quantity) and ease of management. I chose the Aquaponic for the closed loop aspect but I am mechanically inclined and understand complex control systems and can do my own piping and electrical. VJ needs to have a stable food supply without any complex controls or high maintenance items. He has now been exposed to both types of system but he now needs some hands on advice.

IMO the first and most important is the climate control of the greenhouse. See those dark roots on that tomato plants in the bucket, it was from a cold spell. It did recover but still lost all the blooms and tomatoes we would be eating now.
I like the double barrow heater, and wish we had of set it up early. If power goes out like it did yesterday we lose all plants.

Second most important is the seeds you use. Also don't just use hydroponics but add a few container soil grown plants too. Solar to keep the air stones and pumps going. Some of our mistakes hopefully will help others.
 
Heating idea.Take into consideration if you will have a forest to supply the wood for this operation. Or storage space if bought in cords.

 
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You can help Venom Jockey with the real everyday knowledge required for the hydroponics. I can only touch on the logistical side. You can and hopefully will make suggestions to VJ on what worked for you and where you ran into problems and what he should consider and what is just hype from your experience. VJ is going to need a lot of hands on advice for all the folks that have actually done this. Just keep in mind that once VJ relocates, no outside help is going to be available. VJ is not as financially well off as Pess (not many are) but I don't think cost is going to be the main factor to consider. Long term reliability, crop potential (size & quantity) and ease of management. I chose the Aquaponic for the closed loop aspect but I am mechanically inclined and understand complex control systems and can do my own piping and electrical. VJ needs to have a stable food supply without any complex controls or high maintenance items. He has now been exposed to both types of system but he now needs some hands on advice.

You called that one......I can keep up with a hundred different things in a cockpit, and can't understand the piping in the greenhouse/hydo/aqua stuff I'm seeing. Feel like a real dummy!!!
 
From what I am seeing, yes, I like the hydroponics best. Pess had/has enough protein powder stored out there to last years, ditto vitamin/mineral tabs. What to grow and how much of it to grow will be the issues. Meal planning, and then growing to fit the meal plans seems to be the best idea I can come up with. Condiments can be stored literally forever, don't foresee that as a problem....there is a LOT of storage area out there!! Game will get smart, as you say...won't do them any good...the cavern provides entrances to two other valleys, and where else can they go but those valleys? Which reminds me, Pess was always saying, "We're missing something here. There's a use for this cavern, and we're missing it." Well, I'm STILL missing it, and Pess doesn't even remember it, and my boy has never seen the place yet....you have any ideas??

We had a rather interesting beginning to the morning...see my message in the new "thread?" I put up.

Is there another exit to those canyons? If there isn't, and if it's possible, you could fly in some livestock to run wild and hunt as needed. One cow will feed 2 people a lot of meals.
 
Is there another exit to those canyons? If there isn't, and if it's possible, you could fly in some livestock to run wild and hunt as needed. One cow will feed 2 people a lot of meals.

Canyons? You mean the cavern? Pess's valley has two adjacent valleys on either side (other side of mountains), and the cavern provides entrances to both. As far as we know, there is no other way in/out of those two other valleys...bowl shaped, surrounded by mountains. Problem with free ranging there is large predators abound.... grizzlies, mountain lions, and wolves/coyotes. Not sure free ranging would work at all!!
 
Canyons? You mean the cavern? Pess's valley has two adjacent valleys on either side (other side of mountains), and the cavern provides entrances to both. As far as we know, there is no other way in/out of those two other valleys...bowl shaped, surrounded by mountains. Problem with free ranging there is large predators abound.... grizzlies, mountain lions, and wolves/coyotes. Not sure free ranging would work at all!!

Hey you can always eat bear. I hear it is quite tasty. Free Ranging stock animals is just another way of putting out bait for predator hunts. The best I can come up with for the cavern is an emergency storage and exit form one of the valleys. The compound is all visible from the air. Having an emergency exit out of sight and have emergence food, water and ammo could provide a means to evict unwanted surprise guests.
 
Hey you can always eat bear. I hear it is quite tasty. Free Ranging stock animals is just another way of putting out bait for predator hunts. The best I can come up with for the cavern is an emergency storage and exit form one of the valleys. The compound is all visible from the air. Having an emergency exit out of sight and have emergence food, water and ammo could provide a means to evict unwanted surprise guests.

Yep and bear seems to be everywhere. About 12 yr ago I was on the way to St.Augustine and a mama bear with 2 cubs ran out in front of me. My bus hit both the babies. I felt terrible. Bears hang out around creeks and forest. I was too afraid to stop because of who had been following us for several miles. A car load of 'suspiciou;lookig people.
We have woods full of bears but they are black not grizzly.
 
You called that one......I can keep up with a hundred different things in a cockpit, and can't understand the piping in the greenhouse/hydo/aqua stuff I'm seeing. Feel like a real dummy!!!

I meant to mention to you about videos and books for hydroponcs systems.
VenomJ find a good book that is easy to understand and even a video since you have solar power CD player will work without networks.
This way you always have any questions right there when you need them. Plus tips too.
Also setting up hydro is not as complicated as it looks, what makes it complicated is what TMT said not planning ahead.
We are going to buy a couple good books on hydros and videos.
Shade clothe is also good to have in case it gets too hot that stuff is a plant saver fro freak heat waves . We are in a freak heat wave now and have it up on top and down west wall.
 
We are changing the fertilizer reservoir in the bucket hydros and setting back up reservoir for lettuce,peppers.

Had to buy another fan for greenhouse the other one turned to rust but still worked. Can't afford a fan made fro greenhouse so we got a $17 Walmart one yesterday. Works good so far.

We went back to Canna products today. Nothing wrong with Master Blend just thought we'd change again. Plants have really been thru the wringer with us this year. Lack of planning always causes more work and head acres.

Canna, Aqua Vega 0-3-4, two part nutrient for the growing stage in re-circulating system. Part B
Canna, Aqua Vega 5-0-2, " Part A
Canna, Cannazym, treatment to facilitate the breakdown of cellulose

These above are for flowering and producing plants. But we will also put it in new set up reservoir for lettuce and see what happens. Forgot to ask Gator Hydro about transplants.
 
IMO The Canna is not as good as the Master Blend. And it cost a whole lot more than Master Blend too.

About to star setting back up Hydro but we have lots of time so no hurry.

Miss my two buddies @TMT Tactical and @VenomJockey hope they come back soon and VJ treatment works fast.
 
Canyons? You mean the cavern? Pess's valley has two adjacent valleys on either side (other side of mountains), and the cavern provides entrances to both. As far as we know, there is no other way in/out of those two other valleys...bowl shaped, surrounded by mountains. Problem with free ranging there is large predators abound.... grizzlies, mountain lions, and wolves/coyotes. Not sure free ranging would work at all!!
Look at Scottish Highlanders. Pretty disease resistant and my buddy has pulled a wolf off the horns of his bull.

Some will be lost but be careful with the Highlanders, when they get wild you do not want to corner them.

Told my buddy his bull looked like a short buffalo with longer horns. His bull was impressive looking and obviously protective of his herd.
 
Look at Scottish Highlanders. Pretty disease resistant and my buddy has pulled a wolf off the horns of his bull.

Some will be lost but be careful with the Highlanders, when they get wild you do not want to corner them.

Told my buddy his bull looked like a short buffalo with longer horns. His bull was impressive looking and obviously protective of his herd.

For some reason this post reminds me of one of my top 10 favorite movies " The Rare Breed". Old Jimmy Stewart, Marine OHara movie about a bull.
 

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