"WHAT" will it take for you to "SHIFT into OVERDRIVE" and Floor-it.....???

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I am going to do nothing we are not already doing

I wished my daughter and her husband would be at least a little prepared however. She has this attitude' oh we will just stay on the military base and THEY will take care of us. I asked her what she would do if the interstate to get from her house to there was blocked, or rioting mobs of angry people were on it blocking it.
Her answer: I have a big truck, i would run them over
I told her to at least buy some large plastic containers and fill them up so they have some water
 
In survivalism, whenever the question of "should I do A or B" arises, the correct answer is almost always...both.

That is never more true than when the question is "should I store material resources/preps or should I gather skills".

Genuine 100% self sufficiency is extremely hard to attain and most people will never see someone actually living that way (let alone get anywhere near that themselves.

But even if you did get there, that self sufficiency will depend upon a fragile set of conditions staying the same as they were while you got that system setup. Most significant among those conditions would be weather and security.

If the weather changes profoundly (be it a drought, flood, cold or hot time or some catastrophe like a volcanic eruption that decrease solar radiation, then that system of self sufficiency will almost certainly fail.

If the rule of law is suddenly gone, and you are the only one around who is producing enough food, then operation of your 100% self sufficient system will become extremely risky and hard to sustain (without a decent sized team of hard people to watch your back 24/7). If you did have such a team, then you would need to able to feed them too - and most such food systems cannot just suddenly scale up production by several hundred percent.

The idea that skills are enough and preps are "temporary" is both seductive and comforting for those that:
  • Actually think they are or can become 100% self sufficient
  • Don't have money for preps or don't want to spend the money they have on preps
  • Find the idea of self sufficiency romantic - and think "I wont need preps because I have skills"
  • Think that people in the past were 100% self sufficient when they were in reality not
  • Underestimate the severity of security threats because normalcy bias prevents them from comprehending how violent "normal people" do become when they get hungry and when the rule of law is gone
  • Overestimate how remote the place they live is, and assess that "no one will come for me here" or "folks around here are good people and will look out for each other" - again those assessments are mostly borne of normalcy bias
  • Underestimate the probability of crises for which the only survivable course or action is to leave and never come back - a 100% self sufficient food producing system counts for nothing if you have to leave it behind. If you don't think that such crises occur, six million jews, who didn't leave Europe when they could of, beg to differ.......history is full of crises that required people to leave or die
  • Want a cop out that means they don't need to prep (which is hard and expensive)
Survivalists should stay anchored in the real world (and look at it without the filter of normalcy bias)......and the real world is that you need material gear/supplies and skills.

In a very severe crisis, you wont make it without both.

You may not make it anyway, but as I always say to people who want to throw in the towel before they even try, "Please excuse me if I insist upon giving it a try".
dont get me wrong, i have supplies on hand for specific things. my cars are out fitted for specific emergencies. im all for prepping, but a bug out bag with $500 worth of gear to "survive" isnt a plan. nor is buying a million bucks worth of freeze dried goods....for me anyway.

a man has a responsibility to his family to keep them well fed, safe, and warm and at the end of the day our most realistic shtf evet is another depression. i strongly suggest doing what you can to feed yourself. even small things like a little raised bed garden helps the grocery bill and takes little work. planting pole beans on a fence will put ALOT of food in jars too. if you have room for a 2x10 foot rabbit cage in the back yard you can put up many of pounds of meat a year. a 10x10 chicken coop can give you a 1/2 dozen eggs a day on your table scraps. the list goes on.

not everyone can start a farm, i know this, but we can all do something to help ourselves. i just believe balls to the wall consumerism isnt the answer. thats where i started and most of those canned goods went bad some years ago.


after a while it starts paying off. i have a family of 6 and we spend less than $80 a week at the store....most of that is coffee and snacks.


if sitting on a thousand pounds of rice is your cup of tea thats cool. (i hope you froze it for a few days first), but you cant argue with history and people who fed themselves in the last depression made it through.



these are things people should be doing now. every step is a step. celebrate ever victory.
 
I am going to do nothing we are not already doing

I wished my daughter and her husband would be at least a little prepared however. She has this attitude' oh we will just stay on the military base and THEY will take care of us. I asked her what she would do if the interstate to get from her house to there was blocked, or rioting mobs of angry people were on it blocking it.
Her answer: I have a big truck, i would run them over
I told her to at least buy some large plastic containers and fill them up so they have some water



that's the most realistic thing that nobody seems to do. so many people take water forgranted. where i live we had a terrible winter storm last year and most people lost power and water for a week. stuff happens, water mains break, pipes freeze etc. what does it hurt to have a couple days worth of water on hand?
 
dont get me wrong, i have supplies on hand for specific things. my cars are out fitted for specific emergencies. im all for prepping, but a bug out bag with $500 worth of gear to "survive" isnt a plan. nor is buying a million bucks worth of freeze dried goods....for me anyway.

a man has a responsibility to his family to keep them well fed, safe, and warm and at the end of the day our most realistic shtf evet is another depression. i strongly suggest doing what you can to feed yourself. even small things like a little raised bed garden helps the grocery bill and takes little work. planting pole beans on a fence will put ALOT of food in jars too. if you have room for a 2x10 foot rabbit cage in the back yard you can put up many of pounds of meat a year. a 10x10 chicken coop can give you a 1/2 dozen eggs a day on your table scraps. the list goes on.

not everyone can start a farm, i know this, but we can all do something to help ourselves. i just believe balls to the wall consumerism isnt the answer. thats where i started and most of those canned goods went bad some years ago.


after a while it starts paying off. i have a family of 6 and we spend less than $80 a week at the store....most of that is coffee and snacks.


if sitting on a thousand pounds of rice is your cup of tea thats cool. (i hope you froze it for a few days first), but you cant argue with history and people who fed themselves in the last depression made it through.



these are things people should be doing now. every step is a step. celebrate ever victory.
Sing it brother! (Yes! I totally agree.) As well as previous post re. skills.
 
at the end of the day our most realistic shtf evet is another depression.

We really don't know that.

Trying to guess what might happen is a bad approach to survivalism. Operating your survivalism activities based upon such guesses is known as "Scenario prepping" and is discouraged by skilled survivalists.

Prep for capabilities - the list of which is long - and in which food is only one item.

i strongly suggest doing what you can to feed yourself.

Yep. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I have a commercial sized farm that produces a lot more food than I can consume in normal times. We also have several million gallons of fresh water that we own and the farm can produce at smaller scale without inputs from the outside. We planted a wide variety of food producing trees and bushes more than twenty years ago and they are now mature and in full production.

But I also have years of stored food so that if all my food production gets trashed on day one of a very severe crisis, I am still prepared.

if sitting on a thousand pounds of rice is your cup of tea thats cool. (i hope you froze it for a few days first)

Freezing rice doesn't kill bug eggs. If it did there would be no bugs during summer in places that have freezing winters. The correct way to store white rice (to last decades) is in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers.
 
Yep...food production can be trashed without notice. Glad I wasn't counting on a big harvest of winter squash this year like I had last year, although it would have been nice. Nearly 40 plants growing, destroyed all but a couple by squash bugs in no time at all. Even though I'm hand picking them and the eggs off every single day. Hooray for years of food storage. It is necessary.
 
I'm grateful I've had time to learn, move myself to a better location prep , practice , fail, win.
Every day that it hasn't hit the fan yet is another day to utilize n learn and lately indulge alittle in those things I know I'll likely never be able to enjoy again once it does hit the fan.
Like this weekend..for my main meal in the evening..I grilled up a nice rib eye n sauteed some shrimp. I rarely buy rib eyes or seafood. I keep my daily meals simple n cheap. I'll often just have soup or cereal.
The store had a managers special with 3 ribeyes in it for 22 bucks. I thought..yes..I want surf n turf this weekend before i cant afford that kind of indulgence. I usually get a prime rib meal on new years n very seldom in a year buy expensive cuts of beef.
Little indulgence here n there is part of my plan now that I see the train wreck getting closer..I know once it all starts unwinding fast..I wont regret having givin myself a treat.
I hope to go opal hunting for a weekend in September..I hope I can make it happen.
 
In survivalism, whenever the question of "should I do A or B" arises, the correct answer is almost always...both.

That is never more true than when the question is "should I store material resources/preps or should I gather skills".

Genuine 100% self sufficiency is extremely hard to attain and most people will never see someone actually living that way (let alone get anywhere near that themselves.

But even if you did get there, that self sufficiency will depend upon a fragile set of conditions staying the same as they were while you got that system setup. Most significant among those conditions would be weather and security.

If the weather changes profoundly (be it a drought, flood, cold or hot time or some catastrophe like a volcanic eruption that decrease solar radiation, then that system of self sufficiency will almost certainly fail.

If the rule of law is suddenly gone, and you are the only one around who is producing enough food, then operation of your 100% self sufficient system will become extremely risky and hard to sustain (without a decent sized team of hard people to watch your back 24/7). If you did have such a team, then you would need to able to feed them too - and most such food systems cannot just suddenly scale up production by several hundred percent.

The idea that skills are enough and preps are "temporary" is both seductive and comforting for those that:
  • Actually think they are or can become 100% self sufficient
  • Don't have money for preps or don't want to spend the money they have on preps
  • Find the idea of self sufficiency romantic - and think "I wont need preps because I have skills"
  • Think that people in the past were 100% self sufficient when they were in reality not
  • Underestimate the severity of security threats because normalcy bias prevents them from comprehending how violent "normal people" do become when they get hungry and when the rule of law is gone
  • Overestimate how remote the place they live is, and assess that "no one will come for me here" or "folks around here are good people and will look out for each other" - again those assessments are mostly borne of normalcy bias
  • Underestimate the probability of crises for which the only survivable course or action is to leave and never come back - a 100% self sufficient food producing system counts for nothing if you have to leave it behind. If you don't think that such crises occur, six million jews, who didn't leave Europe when they could of, beg to differ.......history is full of crises that required people to leave or die
  • Want a cop out that means they don't need to prep (which is hard and expensive)
Survivalists should stay anchored in the real world (and look at it without the filter of normalcy bias)......and the real world is that you need material gear/supplies and skills.

In a very severe crisis, you wont make it without both.

You may not make it anyway, but as I always say to people who want to throw in the towel before they even try, "Please excuse me if I insist upon giving it a try".

i agree and disagree and have no answers...only opinions and statements that really end in period and question marks and more.

i want to hear your take on recent events where we only see a very small percentage of population moving any great distance...the vast majority has stayed put to grind out their daily struggle..i had thought only war and bombs would drive some out but we are seeing in multiple locations thats not true. they hid in hole and came out to start their survival daily grind.

example..Venezuela,Lebanon,Sri-lanka,Syria and even Ukraine. less than 5% left there in fact.

i am not saying folks wont leave a city being bombed to get in countryside...but we are seeing folks stay put in both city and countryside being bombed real hard from opposing sides.

theres a portion of me thats starting to think this being over run by hoards is a very false premise since what we are seeing. do not confuse it with me saying it cant happen..anything can happen...but look at evidence...lebanon had a civil war then peace and now this. folks living there are saying things were better nd easier and more was available during civil war than currently.

its a complex thing to ponder if we are honest.

even taking yourself...i have no doubt you wouldnt up and leave your place...if bombed i feel you watch from a ridge top or wooded edge or in hidy hole till all clear.

evidence shows most are grinding it out in place...right or wrong.
 
If all hell breaks loose I (we) are better staying put. I know where I can source wild food, I'm next to a woods, and have a good relationship those of similar minds locally. On an island of this size can't go far anyway! We are also two hours from major hubs on all sides, short of going to a smaller island offshore (which would be practical really) there isn't anywhere else, and I haven't stocked this much to leave it behind. Read an interesting piece somewhere by a woman who was urging a friend to prepare. The answer was 'I don't need to- I'm coming to you!' Funnily enough, friends have said that to us also. I have a relation in the states who is stocked to high heavens with those packs of food that last forever like army rations. He has no seeds though and has developed no skills like growing. That sort of prepping frustrates me.
My husband and I often have the conversation about when 'enough is enough' though. In the movie 'The Road', the wife just walks out, because things are not improving. I don't mind surviving, but I think after a year or two I would need to see a glimmer of hope, or else what's the point?
 
When the FEDERAL PROPERTY TAX starts and or the CIVIL WAR begins! I'll live on MY land until the massive hoards come to take it!! I will run, and live off the land...... Because I want to live to see GOOD overcome this EVIL!!
buy some liquid rat poison and a bottle of larceny bourbon, remove the wax uncork the bottle and have a drink. replace the drank liquid with the poison, replace the cork and rewax the top
when they come to take your stash. leave the bottle on the table and run. hide and wait. it will not be long till someone runs outside to vomit and gasp for air. do what you gotta do and take your house back
 
i agree and disagree and have no answers...only opinions and statements that really end in period and question marks and more.

i want to hear your take on recent events where we only see a very small percentage of population moving any great distance...the vast majority has stayed put to grind out their daily struggle..i had thought only war and bombs would drive some out but we are seeing in multiple locations thats not true. they hid in hole and came out to start their survival daily grind.

example..Venezuela,Lebanon,Sri-lanka,Syria and even Ukraine. less than 5% left there in fact.

i am not saying folks wont leave a city being bombed to get in countryside...but we are seeing folks stay put in both city and countryside being bombed real hard from opposing sides.

theres a portion of me thats starting to think this being over run by hoards is a very false premise since what we are seeing. do not confuse it with me saying it cant happen..anything can happen...but look at evidence...lebanon had a civil war then peace and now this. folks living there are saying things were better nd easier and more was available during civil war than currently.

its a complex thing to ponder if we are honest.

even taking yourself...i have no doubt you wouldnt up and leave your place...if bombed i feel you watch from a ridge top or wooded edge or in hidy hole till all clear.

evidence shows most are grinding it out in place...right or wrong.

Thanks for the insightful reply.

My take on current events is this.......about 5% of people hit the road so far because things are really not that bad yet. In those places, people still mostly get enough to eat. In those places, the ROL is still present to some reduced degree (it is far from absent). In those places, aid flows in to limit human suffering - because there is still a very much larger world outside that remains willing/able to provide aid and support.

I can easily contemplate a world where things are at least twenty time worse, where no aid comes from other places and where very many people have the tough choices about whether the place they are in is survivable.

I have seen places like that.

History has included times when those sort of places were very common.

Would I leave my place if I assessed that it is was no longer survivable here.......oh yes......and to make that a viable option I have worked a lot on mobility as a prep over the last five or so years.

I think that mindset is stronger in people who have done some time in the fighting parts of the military. We don't really get too invested in some particular piece of territory. We focus more upon objectives and that mindset prioritizes mobility.

I love my patch of land, but it does me no good to follow some course of action that leads to me rotting there.

My instincts for survival are too strong for me to accept that.
 
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Thanks for the insightful reply.

My take on current events is this.......about 5% of people hit the road so far because things are really not that bad yet. In those places, people still mostly get enough to eat. In those places, the ROL is still present to some reduced degree (it is far from absent). In those places, aid flows in to limit human suffering - because there is still a very much larger world outside that remains willing/able to provide aid and support.

I can easily contemplate a world where things are at least twenty time worse, where no aid comes from other places and where very many people have the tough choices about whether the place they are in is survivable.

I have seen places like that.

History has included times when those sort of places were very common.

Would I leave my place if I assessed that it is was no longer survivable here.......oh yes......and to make that a viable option I have worked a lot on mobility as a prep over the last five or so years.

I think that mindset is stronger in people who have done some time in the fighting parts of the military. We don't really get too invested in some particular piece of territory. We focus more upon objectives and that mindset prioritizes mobility.

I love my patch of land, but it does me no good to follow some course of action that leads to me rotting there.

My instincts for survival are too strong for me to accept that.
You got me thinking...

I did the math and made some estimates about what percentage of the masses in the nearest big city and them carrying weapons ammo and food on foot.

Worst case is they pick up at minute one and show up here on day 2 of no food. They would be hungary and desperate and limited to what ever ammo they carried. They would not know the territory or where to find stashes.

Meanwhile we would be fed and fortifying our place setting up killing zones and zeroing in our weapons.

A tribe ot 30 people would have to take out 150 marauders each if they all showed up at once and the pile of 4500 bodies didn't serve as a deterrent. But 5000 marauders organized armed and fed is not likely.

So assuming 50 at a time as they run out of supplies and ammo... I think we can hold our own.

Increase your displacement from population center by and the numbers drop off.

So the threat of the marauders diminishes and the challenge of thriving in a post TEOTWAWKI.

Do we have seeds ?

Ben
 
Happy mediums are the best I figure WE can do here. IE: 2 miles from neighbors 5 more miles to a very small town with a stoplight, grocery store and DG. 2 hours to the nearest major city. We have a little stored and more on the hoof. Currently I'm working to make it look like all the critters have gone elsewhere and that we have no crops or garden going. I'm thinking if it looks like you have nothing worth anything why would anyone bother? It also seems to help keep the casual thief at bay.

One more thing I've done was come up with a nearly silent golf cart setup for off road that's solar powered and BETTER dang well outlast me. It should handle the trip to town just fine IF ever needed. A trip to town would require 4 sunny days to recharge. Using it on the property the panel seems to keep ahead of use since I installed the DIY LifePO4 battery. The battery is large enough to last about 4 days without recharging here on the property, 36ac. Yet it only takes up one third of the space and less than one third of the weight of the original and has the same useable amp hours / power. Best of all it was cheaper than new lead acid batteries by putting it together from parts.
 
You got me thinking...

I did the math and made some estimates about what percentage of the masses in the nearest big city and them carrying weapons ammo and food on foot.

Worst case is they pick up at minute one and show up here on day 2 of no food. They would be hungary and desperate and limited to what ever ammo they carried. They would not know the territory or where to find stashes.

Meanwhile we would be fed and fortifying our place setting up killing zones and zeroing in our weapons.

A tribe ot 30 people would have to take out 150 marauders each if they all showed up at once and the pile of 4500 bodies didn't serve as a deterrent. But 5000 marauders organized armed and fed is not likely.

So assuming 50 at a time as they run out of supplies and ammo... I think we can hold our own.

Increase your displacement from population center by and the numbers drop off.

So the threat of the marauders diminishes and the challenge of thriving in a post TEOTWAWKI.

Do we have seeds ?

Ben

More or less the same conclusion reached by 40's, 50's, 60's serious preppers. (Mel Tappan likely the most prolific author).
 

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