When the Grid Goes Down

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sonya123 said:
but that is not what they have, all the nuke plants are old , unless they have very recently rebuilt them
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I'll call 💩 The industry and designs are "old", but the principles are the same. Unless you actually have creditable sources for your statements?. Ever seen a nuclear submarine with an extension cord? Or a Nuke aircraft Carrier?

SUDDENLY, a power plant capable of producing MEGAWATTS of electrical energy needs an extension cord to run?

REALLY?????
 
thats what happened to fukashima plant. the thing went down and all the back up generator and pumps couldnt pump the cooling water.

theres a new nuke plant being built but its like a decade or 15 years or some crazy number past its date of completion and they say now its so many 10 of millions over budget it probably wont be finished and if they did the cost of its electric will be huge...to my understanding they want to stop now before sinking more money into it.
 
elkhound said:
thats what happened to fukashima plant. the thing went down and all the back up generator and pumps couldnt pump the cooling water.

theres a new nuke plant being built but its like a decade or 15 years or some crazy number past its date of completion and they say now its so many 10 of millions over budget it probably wont be finished and if they did the cost of its electric will be huge...to my understanding they want to stop now before sinking more money into it.
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There are ALWAYS unforeseen disasters. Overbudget, ask the governement, probably some bologna regulation or study.

The Fukushima nuclear disaster was triggered by a tsunami that flooded and damaged the 3 active reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, drowning two workers. Loss of backup electrical power led to overheating, meltdowns, and evacuations.[40] One man died suddenly while carrying equipment during the clean-up.[41] The plant's reactors Nos. 4, 5 and 6 were inactive at the time.

I can't speak their preparations, Never been there, never toured the site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents
 
seen a shop and bandsawmill run like this via horse power..they walked in a circle and gear box pto shaft ran across ground delivering power...you can do this with water power.

 
elkhound said:
i said it before..people will live what i call a 3-5 mile life.

that distance most folks can travel daily for various things and return home and keep a home and all that requires functioning. its the way my area was set up before vehicles. there was a small school and a little store ever so often in these ranges to serve each little section of community.
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Aaaand once again I am abnormal 🤪
 
LadyLocust said:
Aaaand once again I am abnormal 🤪
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Welcome to the club, bring refreshments to the next meeting :). BTW, I like pies. "Town"
(pop =534) has a Sunoco, Marathon and Family Dollar, everything else is >10 miles.
 
dademoss said:
Welcome to the club, bring refreshments to the next meeting :). BTW, I like pies. "Town"
(pop =534) has a Sunoco, Marathon and Family Dollar, everything else is >10 miles.
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nothing in my community...not even a gas station! you better keep a full tank and supplied other wise you spend all ya time behind the wheel of vehicle.
 
Well we have a restaurant, a burger place, hardware, thrift store, post office, travel agency for the amish bus tours slash church meeting room for the Baptists (20 people), and a small grocery. A feed store up the road. Oh, and a mechanic. The grade school is closing down after the school year ends for good. That's town proper. Although the amish here have family businesses....little stores for meat, milk, eggs, cheese on their farms. Just need to know where to go. Everyone meets at the "fowl sale" the last Friday of the month. More than just fowl is auctioned off. Usually includes pigs, goats, some calves, rabbits, and misc farm stuff. Farmer's Mkt is near the stores on Friday afternoons in the spring and summer, and usually there's 4 ladies selling produce, home canned stuff, and baked stuff. Anyone can sell, no charge. Cash only. My favorite cousin's son in law has taken up a "side" business aside from the farming and milking he does. He is now doing tractor repair. This works for all of us.
 
lilmissy said:
If grid goes down, you use glow sticks, oil lamps, etc. do you want your neighbors or people passing by to know you have lights?
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Yep.......

Way too many people think the solution to a long term grid down crisis is "I'll pull out my generator".

In that sort of crisis, about the worst thing you could do would be to:
  1. burn what precious fuel you have in a generator
  2. be running a noisy, light producing beacon that tells passing bad guys that "I still have some gas and who knows what else".
Many people mistakenly believe that they are safer at night when they have the lights on inside their home. That only works when the bad guys would rather you weren't around when they come visiting.


Many people respond to a noise/disturbance outside their home by turning on the internal lights........stop doing that.

If you want to turn on lights, turn on floods that are out in your yard........the bad guys won't know if you did that or a sensor did.

You want them lit up.....not you.....you should be in the dark. The person in the light is the one in danger.
 
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Full "BLACK-OUT" curtains are handy. Some are very attractive. Some are inexpensive. I like the cheap "double-butt-ugly" flat black. They are heavy.
 
Sourdough said:
Full "BLACK-OUT" curtains are handy. Some are very attractive. Some are inexpensive. I like the cheap "double-butt-ugly" flat black. They are heavy.
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It is also a good idea to have some red lamps.

If you are in white light and you need to go outside, then your eyes will take about 15 minutes to gain full night function.

But going from red light to full night function takes about 30 seconds to a couple of minutes.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_(eye)
 
Glad we got to the point of needing to be invisible post crash, prolly the first 2 weeks if at all possible don't make much noise, and or light when the background noise is go every sound is amplified. If you have wood heat or anything that will show out of the chimney you only want to burn at night or have really dry wood and actually burn it , not smolder it. expect bridges etc to be made into choke points to keep unwanted s out . really hope that you are part of your community
 
Our plan is to hunker down and use our buddy heaters running on propane in one or two rooms. No smokey stoves and no undue light. I have a few solar powered motion detecting lights which will be out aways from the house.
I also think the first couple of weeks will be crutial....either things will get better or all bets are off and time to get really serious.
Having freeze dried food means just some hot water to have great meals.
Blackout curtains and some portable CD payers with a lot of CD's to have something for the imput addicted folks to plug into. Rechargeable small lights and Lots of books for those that read.
 
dademoss said:
I'll call 💩 The industry and designs are "old", but the principles are the same. Unless you actually have creditable sources for your statements?. Ever seen a nuclear submarine with an extension cord? Or a Nuke aircraft Carrier?

SUDDENLY, a power plant capable of producing MEGAWATTS of electrical energy needs an extension cord to run?

REALLY?????
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the cooling water is pumped using electricity from the grid. It's not self contained. No you cannot plug in an extension cord LOLOL
there are backup generators for power failures, but once the fuel for those runs out, the water is no longer pumped

A nuclear sub is very much different from a power plant
 
sonya123 said:
the cooling water is pumped using electricity from the grid. It's not self contained. No you cannot plug in an extension cord LOLOL
there are backup generators for power failures, but once the fuel for those runs out, the water is no longer pumped

A nuclear sub is very much different from a power plant
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Sadly, for you, NO it's not. Exactly WHERE do you think the GRID POWER is coming from? The REACTOR.

One may want to examine the current art before discoursing on on things they have little knowledge of.

I'll be happy to point you to some crayon drawings of reactor loops.
 
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dademoss said:
Sadly, for you, NO it's not. Exactly WHERE do you think the GRID POWER is coming from? The REACTOR.

One may want to examine the current art before discoursing on on things they have little knowledge of.
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https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/10/22970665/ukraine-chernobyl-blackouts-nuclear-power-plants

this is relatively current,
want me to go look for my old college thermodynamics book?

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-if-a-nuclear-power-plant-loses-outside-electricity.525232/#:~:text=In summary, nuclear power plants,and a meltdown can occur.

https://www.polytechnique-insights....w-to-protect-nuclear-power-plants-in-wartime/

"What about the time it takes to cool down the plant in case of a grid failure, to remove the rods and allow the units to be shut down? “It takes months, even years. The proof is that the discharged assemblies, at cycle end, must be cooled for three years before they can be transported. They are then stored again in the pools at La Hague, where they are cooled once more.” The threat is therefore serious."
 
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Wanna quote something actually CURRENT and regarding US based reactors? what russia did or didn't do has NOTHING to do with a US based reactor. Sure, pull out the thermo book, I took it too. Once again, the fallacy of using the internet for your "knowledge"
 
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dademoss said:
Wanna quote something actually CURRENT and regarding US based reactors? what russia did or didn't do has NOTHING to do with a US based reactor. Sure, pull out the thermo book, I took it too. Once again, the fallacy of using the internet for your "knowledge"
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proof it! If you think you know how this works go for it! I am willing to learn something new

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/gc/gc53inf-3-att5_en.pdf

this from some actual nuclear power organization. states right in it that the nuclear power plant relies on the grid

NPPs supply large amounts of energy to the grid as well as relying on it to receive power for crucial safety operations, especially during emergency conditions. The safe startup, operation and shutdown of NPPs require a reliable and stable power supply from the electric grid, referred to generally as 'off-site power'.

Interfacing Nuclear Power Plants with the Electric Grid​

 
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I am not even sure what exactly you are disagreeing with , that a nuclear power plant uses outside electricity? That it needs water that gets pumped for cooling ( the pump needs electricity) , or that it can't just be shut down because the fuel still needs to be cooled for a while? Which exactly are you disagreeing with and why? Maybe instead of calling people idiots you should learn how to have a logical and rational discussion

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media...heet.pdf?rev=8dd993b38d0a4e2fbbd0bc0d5db8e56b

here is some info from a real power plant in the US, like I said, uses water for cooling
has "backup systems" but , what happens when the fuel for the backup generators runs out?
If the grid is down, fuel can't be pumped either
 
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elkhound said:
try harder....lol...honestly not really sure what you mean....is that a good or bad
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Work days, I’m at 30 miles. We live about 4 miles from the closest corner of town so everything is farther. We used to live nearly an hour from town so were even further from normal.
 
elkhound said:
summer time refrigeration...it requires work and planning months in advance.


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Grandparents talked about how ice was cut and stacked with saw dust in between the blocks for ice boxes, pre refrigerators. My g grandfather had a butcher shop and a slaughter house in Nebraska. His land where his slaughter house was, was right beside a river. He had hired men. I wondered about getting ice from the river. With the moving water in a river, it might not have been so easy to get thick ice.
 
Amish Heart said:
Well we have a restaurant, a burger place, hardware, thrift store, post office, travel agency for the amish bus tours slash church meeting room for the Baptists (20 people), and a small grocery. A feed store up the road. Oh, and a mechanic. The grade school is closing down after the school year ends for good. That's town proper. Although the amish here have family businesses....little stores for meat, milk, eggs, cheese on their farms. Just need to know where to go. Everyone meets at the "fowl sale" the last Friday of the month. More than just fowl is auctioned off. Usually includes pigs, goats, some calves, rabbits, and misc farm stuff. Farmer's Mkt is near the stores on Friday afternoons in the spring and summer, and usually there's 4 ladies selling produce, home canned stuff, and baked stuff. Anyone can sell, no charge. Cash only. My favorite cousin's son in law has taken up a "side" business aside from the farming and milking he does. He is now doing tractor repair. This works for all of us.
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I think that it would be good to live in an Amish community when the grid goes down. Most people will be so used to living that way. No panic, no hysteria!
 
Weedygarden said:
Grandparents talked about how ice was cut and stacked with saw dust in between the blocks for ice boxes, pre refrigerators. My g grandfather had a butcher shop and a slaughter house in Nebraska. His land where his slaughter house was, was right beside a river. He had hired men. I wondered about getting ice from the river. With the moving water in a river, it might not have been so easy to get thick ice.
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Here in montana I have come across several historical "ice ponds".They would purposfully construct not too deep of ponds and feed them from a year round stream or spring. Cut and haul the ice and store it in ice houses in the nearby towns.
 
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