A family member's quandary

Homesteading & Country Living Forum

Help Support Homesteading & Country Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Swing

Swing

Porch Lover
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Neighbor
HCL Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
6,599
Location
N. AL.
I have a family member coming to me for advice about her and her hubby that has developed Alzheimer and does a lot of sleeping, and she's not in good health.
Both are about 70 - give or take a couple of years.

They moved from AL to out in Southern E. TX several years ago to be in a older persons established community. Independent living, then assisted living and then skilled care (nursing home) all in the conglomeration. If they move out of the condo type building they are in, they would get 75% of what they paid back.

All his family is now dead, no help and no family within hundreds of miles. Like her closest relative is in the Texarkana area and 83 yrs old. A place to stop on a trip for overnight, then back to AL. She does want to "come home".

Part of wanting to come back is the green here and change of seasons, and almost all the family is here - and all the family possible helpers are here. And Tn Valley area is "home".

She has a gun safe and she has a safe safe that is massive. They would have to find the written down combination for her to get the tangible assets out of it. I don't know what they are, but he was a coin dealer for some years so I'm thinking real currency should SHTF.

They have a reasonable SS combined income.

She's asked for my thoughts and help to help her figure out options. And I know she wants to be here with family and not out there with no one to care if they live or die. It gets me as once when I posted about taking care of Mom on her last days, this cousin said "I wish I had someone to take care of us." And yes, I know if she comes back , I could be helping her some.

So, she's been holding off spending down their money and hanging on to the tangible assets.
Oh, if they stay they will need someone to come in and clean and repair a floating hardwood floor that was damaged. And she is not cooking so going out to get take our often.

1. I know how much the general nursing homes are here - $6500 a month and medicine. After assets are down to $2200 then medicaid can be applied for and probably be done. That could be for him.
She could have a home, or if assisted living it would be about $3500 a month and medicine (what Mom was paying the past two years. We sold her house to make up the difference in SS and what was needed.) So cousin would have to pay out until no funds. Then she would have to be in skilled care and get medicaid or something would have to happen.
2. Apartments in decent areas of town are now about $1000 a month or more for a 1 bedroom and some places a studio, if just her. She might be able to do that and make funds last longer.
3. He's not a vet, so no applying for VA benefits and his mind is not there so he could not legally assign her as his representative.
4. Since he's not really in right mind, I don't think she can have him redo his will as she is thinking she may need to do. And since whatever was not done 5 years ago Medicaid will go after anything they try to divert unless it's for health care and living and they can prove it.

Here is my first thoughts.
1. See if we can find a place here, nursing home for him and apartment for her. And I know what nursing home I'd suggest and which I would warn about.
2. They are building apartments all over the place right now so she should be able to get one.
3. Sell everything they can out there, or just abandon it if necessary. Not a good idea but maybe get someone to come in after they leave and clean it out for a fee.
4. She can still drive, so bring them back here and have a pod moved to wherever she lands here.
5. Get him to a nursing home asap, possibly do a prelimany interview and let him go directly there.
6. The guns will have to come in the car with them. Just as packed items, or I could suggest FFL and send to me here to hold for them. I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 handguns.
7. The safe would have to be highly insured freight carrier, or she would have to get the contents out and bring with her or mail in some manner. Then the safe would just be another heavy furniture item.


What am I missing? Typing this out is helping me think it through. She needs to be back with the family and so does he. But she is still mentally here enough to hurt being out there alone.

(Also, this is one that annoys most of the family at one time or another. But she's still family and was always one grade behind me in school and we grew up across the street from each other for most of 6 - 12th grades. )

So, ideas please, if you've read it this far.
 
Wow, that is a lot to absorb. The biggest concern is their cash assets. If you can whittle down their savings to almost zero, then state aid will come in to assist. I personally would not trust any moving company with the contents of that safe. I'd be there to witness and remove all valuables, in order to keep them in safe hands.
 
Sounds like a good plan so far. My mom's last husband was moved to a nursing home, and she was in her own home, but didn't manage. She's been with us, then independent living for a number of years, and now assisted living. Her monthly payment just went up $600 a month, quite a shock, but she does have the money, and it's a good place for her. They are going to need help moving. That in itself is a huge pain.
 
2010 my parents moved back here after living out in N. panhandle TX so I could help them. IT was hard, and they found out they may have left a few items, but they got back. I don't expect it to be easy, and I'm not sure I'll drive out to help make it happen. I do know how to get a lot of things done by phone and do research for things in TX.

Unfortunately they didn't have children. So no help there.
Typing and putting the comments and the comments so far, are helping me see things in my head.
 
Well, I can't be of any help. I am actually dealing with this myself. I have been two years trying to sort it out, it is so complicated, and there are so many traps.

There needs to be lot of posts and newspaper articles about this, so people start very early to get things set-up. There are many good options if people start early studying this. But it is human nature to not do that. It seems to always come down to all the choices "suck" now choose one.
 
Sourdough said:
Well, I can't be of any help. I am actually dealing with this myself. I have been two years trying to sort it out, it is so complicated, and there are so many traps.

There needs to be lot of posts and newspaper articles, so people start very early to get things set-up. There are many good options if people start early studying this. But it is human nature to not do that. It seems to always come down to all the choices "suck" now choose one.
Click to expand...

I wish you well with your quandary. Maybe in this thread an idea will be posted that can help you some.
 
Pearl said:
They need help and deserve to be happy. That should just come along with being older!
Click to expand...
Sadly, it is not that easy, there are many State and Federal laws and endless bureaucratic regulations. Just when it seems there is way forward, you soon there is an expensive price to pay.
 
Angie said:
I wish you well with your quandary. Maybe in this thread an idea will be posted that can help you some.
Click to expand...
I needed to have learned about this six years ago.
 
I had the opposite happen to me. My dad and step mom lived in Palm Springs, 2 hours away from me. As my step mom began getting dementia, my dad knew he needed help. He sold his home, and moved to a mobile home, about 5 minutes from me. With their profits from the home sale, I brought in helpers daily. It started with 2 hours, then 4, then 8, then 12, and finally increased to 24 hour care as my step mom's dementia turned bad. She got onto hospice and quietly died 6 months later, as she wished, in her own home. My dad lived 2 more years until he took a bad fall, broke his arm, shoulder and numerous ribs. He was done and asked for morphine. He died, as he wished, in his own home. Sorry for the long story, and failed to mention how I worked many hours a day managing their affairs, but they didn't die alone, as they wished.
 
@havasu that is great it worked for them and they prepped before they needed it. This issue is a now serious practical issue that more need to prep for.
I really think this is one of the most major prepping talks and considerations that should be addressed way before we need them.

Also, don't be a sarcastic, annoying know it all to family and friends, and take care of your family, so your family and friends will want to help you when you need it.
 
Safes are a lot like guns in the fact they have serial numbers, get the number off the safe and contact the company that made it, otherwise a plasma cutter will do it, but it will play hell with the wood stocks and if there are any exposed powders in there, it will not end well. As for the rest, I'm facing the same thing eventually. I never believed I'd live as long as I did so I have no family and nowhere to be, I figured I'd just get a rifle and a bed roll and take a little walk in the woods, even that has flaws when you're slowly losing the ability to walk however. I know where my "self destruct" switch is and what it is. all I have to do is push it. It will look natural, not that I care.
 
havasu said:
I had the opposite happen to me. My dad and step mom lived in Palm Springs, 2 hours away from me. As my step mom began getting dementia, my dad knew he needed help. He sold his home, and moved to a mobile home, about 5 minutes from me. With their profits from the home sale, I brought in helpers daily. It started with 2 hours, then 4, then 8, then 12, and finally increased to 24 hour care as my step mom's dementia turned bad. She got onto hospice and quietly died 6 months later, as she wished, in her own home. My dad lived 2 more years until he took a bad fall, broke his arm, shoulder and numerous ribs. He was done and asked for morphine. He died, as he wished, in his own home. Sorry for the long story, and failed to mention how I worked many hours a day managing their affairs, but they didn't die alone, as they wished.
Click to expand...
Similar story with my parents, they got to die at home! Dad went at 61 of cancer, mom was the main caretaker! My Hubby and I took care of my mom full time. So glad we did!!
 
Angie, this is a GREAT thread!! I clean for several older folks, and do many caretaker duties for them too! It's amazing how much their kids DON'T do for them, even if they live close! I think some don't realize how much help mom or dad needs, some just can't be bothered! We all need to think about WHAT we will have to do as we age!
 
Unrelated to your own issue, but worth mentioning to others as something to think about.

My G/F's mom (I hate saying that since we've been together for 10 years, but that is for another thread) was a very frugal woman. She lived in an apartment for several years. As she started getting dementia, which eventually was diagnosed as Alzheimer's, my G/F needed to get involved more. It was necessary to put her into a memory care facility, which was double what she brought in with her social security income. Fortunately, she had some saved money in a safe deposit box, but didn't know how to make ends meet.

She spoke to a financial expert who told her there is a little known benefit from the military, and since her husband was in the Army, this financial expert made sure she had no visible assets and filed for Military dependent elder care, which gave her an additional $1800 a month until she died. That was the needed money to balance her budget. It was a lot of paperwork, lots of verification that she had no investments or bank accounts, but it is available for spouses of our Military heroes.
 
Havasu - I worked with VA since Feb 2021 on that, but whomever is doing the work with the VA must be the vet or designated representative. A normal POA or medical POA has no say with the VA. I was designated about 2018 for Dad so he would not have to go down there to work it out. Verterans Affairs and another vet group can do the paperwork for you and guide you. I am now waiting to see if they approve (which would give retro to Feb 2021 pay) for Mom or if they have news of her passing in August. I would LOVE to get the back pay as I really could use the money I spent on Mom so I could prepare for me better.

The VA paid me $800 a month as it the help I was giving Dad was at $1000 a month, and he had to pay 20% of that cost. They ended up getting to keep most of that during that time. When he passed that stopped.

I do need to go down to the Vet Affairs place and see what the status is on Mom's case.
 
Yes, the Fed's don't want people to know about this hidden gem, and it also took many phone calls and I just remember the paperwork was kicked back 3 times, due to a pen strike and a specific necessary phrase that was not worded exactly as requested. IMHO, it is just a ploy to cause folks to get disgruntled and quit the process.
 
If he was a coin collector and there is a safe with possible assets in it......find a locksmith business in the area. They can direct you to people who move safes etc. I would have a professional open the safe even if it destructs it. A cut off wheel on a angle grinder will cut a lot of things. Then if there is worthwhile coins let your conscience be your guide.
 
As we are helping my mom with my grandfather going through something similar, I'd like to let you know what we've run into, hopefully it helps.

When it comes to Power of Attorney, there are actually 2 different POAs that your family member needs. One is a regular power of attorney, that allows whoever is assigned with it to make financial and property decisions. The second is a medical POA, which is needed when it comes to decisions regarding end of life care, etc. If his mind is gone to the point that he cannot sign either, you (or your family member) is going to need to retain an attorney to file the paperwork to get the power of attorney assigned, and then they will need to contact either their hospital or primary care provider to administer a state approved congnitave ability test to determine if the person has the ability to understand a legal document and sign for their rights to be administered by someone else. Unfortunately, if that person fails that test, it creates a whole other set of challenges in getting the paperwork assigned. Usually a hearing has to be held before a judge to have the person declared mentally incapable in order for the state to step in and allow the medical power of attorney to be assigned to their spouse or someone else.

When it comes to their physical assets, I would not hesitate to offer your help in getting them packed and moved. This is something that really needs to be handled by people that they trust. I would look at what renting a moving truck and a secure storage facility in your town would run and offer to help them pack, load and move their valuables. In regards to the safe, even the companies that move them professionally will have to have access to the interior to move them. Safe movers won't attempt to move the safe without verifying it is empty. There is too much liability to move a safe and it's contents. Any reputable locksmith should be able to open that safe, it may cost a few hundred dollars to get it open, but if you want the contents retrieved and the safe moved, you really have no other choice.

One thing I would highly suggest you do is get in touch with both the Alabama and the Texas Health and Human Services departments. They are sure to have resources available to not only you, but your family member to help navigate this difficult time. Usually they have a specialized department dealing with aging and disability that deals exclusively with cases like this.

We have been dealing with something similar with my grandfather, who is in his 90s now. He has dementia that is starting to become uncontrollable. My mom and I were just talking about the importance of taking the time now, while we are all of sound mind to not only plan for when the day comes that we cannot take care of ourselves, but also how and who we want to be in charge of our lives at that time. Living wills are not expensive nor difficult to have put together we have found and they can take a lot of the stress and burden off of the rest of the family when it comes time.

Good luck with all of this. Never underestimate the power of prayer and asking for guidance!
 
Thanks dor this thread!

It comes at the right time for me to bug The Princess and her sister to dig out the titles to the two properties they own jointly. One us gere in PA and the other is in upstate NY.

We had started to do estate planning a couple of months ago but the titles put the project on hold. We may be setting up a trust or such to take care of The Princess after I am gone. Her life expectancy is 20 years longer than mine based on our parent's age when they passed. Both my parents passed in their 70s while hers were pushing 90 with her pack of Winstons a say grandmother living into her 90s. Her aunt needed memory care living into her 90s also.

We hope to be able to pass something or our granddaughters and a trust or two may help. Additionally some insurance to cover taxes.

Re: the safes

Ideally contact the dealer that sold the safes is ideal. If they don't have a record of the combination they would know the best way to open the safe with minimal damage.

Trivia
Houdini would get out if safes but not into.

Sea story time
In my younger days I worked for Diebold that made vault doors in addition to alarm systems and cash machines. I worked with a fellow Tommy McMaster who was a safe cracker. Attended conventions of safe crackers etc. He was amazing.

At one point he needed to open a cash machine where the bank had lost the combination. He first examined another identical chest to find its weak point which was an actuator leaver that moved the bolts in and out via the handle. He then attacked the locked chest by drilling two holes opposing two of the bolts securing the door. Threaded the holes and walked two hardened bolts (screws) pushing the bolts of the door in bending the actuator inside the chest door. Backed his screws and the door swang open.

He replaced the actuator leaver. Cut his screws flush with outside of the chest, spot welded the screws inside and a little touch up paint and it was good as new. I was impressed.

Bottom line.
Get someone that knows the safe to open it.

Ben
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top