How Prepared Are You?

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Aerindel said:
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Yep - and like all humor, there is a thread of truth.

The trend in rural and semi-rural fire events is as follows:
  1. The community at large being less accepting of risk for people but........
  2. More accepting of risk for homes
  3. Point 1 is leading in the direction of not just pressure on people to evacuate in advance from fire........but also the introduction of legally mandatory evacuations
  4. Point 2 is leading to people building homes that have no specific design aspects to make them fire resistant very close to native trees that in combination make those houses indefensible from fire. Fire fighters are making "triage" decisions about individual cases and defending them accordingly. Some houses they only do the minimum to defend
  5. The population living in such houses is ageing - and arguably beyond the age where they are physically able to fight fires themselves
  6. But.....those same aged people are incapable of "starting again" even when their home is well insured. In most cases, they are also not physically/mentally able to handle the stress of losing their home, living like a gypsy for a year or two while their home is rebuilt and then trying to reacquire all the possessions they lost. Most such people end up broken by the experience.
The only real solutions to all the above are:
  1. Homes in fire risk locations need to be built to withstand fire
  2. The surroundings of such homes need to be modified enough to make the home defensible
  3. When a fire comes, someone living there needs to defend it
Insurance of such homes and a community rec centre for the residents to run to every time the smell of smoke is around, is not a good solution.

For now, the rest of the population subsidizes the payments on those insurance payouts......sometimes government money is also used to help burned out residents rebuild too.

Governments are spending a lot more public money on rural firefighting.

Around here, firefighting of ten years ago was mostly ground units.

The fire here last year saw the air "cluttered" with air assets including a 737 and C130 water bombers.
 
Aerindel said:
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Lol, well they're at least Smarter than 'Normalcy-Bias Pup'....
d81.png
🤓:rolleyes:

..I mean, those fish Could somehow 'make it to the Toilet'.. ;)

jd
 
I thought it was in vogue to feel superior to unprepared people. I see a lot of discussion amongst the hard core about defending themselves from the unprepared. So that, basically, the unprepared will just go away and die, leaving the hard cores alone to enjoy their long term survival individually. If the unprepared die because they are unprepared, isn't that, like, mission accomplished?

It seems like one of the first steps to being prepared yourself, is to make sure everyone else is unprepared. So they'll die off quicker, leaving more resources for you. Don't make fun of the unprepared's YouTube videos, give them more of them - so things will be easier for the post-apocalypse hard cores.
 
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Haertig said:
. So that, basically, the unprepared will just go away and die, leaving the hard cores alone to enjoy their long term survival individually. If the unprepared die because they are unprepared, isn't that, like, mission accomplished?
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I've never thought they would go away. Thats not human nature.

Thats why I prep for 'zombies', because I've seen and fought them several times already, the way things are NOW. It gives zombie movies a new perspective when you've actually had a hyper fast and strong adult humans teeth sunk into your arm.

2-3 weeks without power and I think there will be MILLIONS of people as dangerous as people can possibly become spreading out from every population center.

And before they die, they will consume every resource possible.
 
Haertig said:
I thought it was in vogue to feel superior to unprepared people. I see a lot of discussion amongst the hard core about defending themselves from the unprepared. So that, basically, the unprepared will just go away and die, leaving the hard cores alone to enjoy their long term survival individually. If the unprepared die because they are unprepared, isn't that, like, mission accomplished?

It seems like one of the first steps to being prepared yourself, is to make sure everyone else is unprepared. So they'll die off quicker, leaving more resources for you. Don't make fun of the unprepared's YouTube videos, give them more of them - so things will be easier for the post-apocalypse hard cores.
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Actually.........I am quite proud of the people in my area and how they acted during the recent fires.

The TV news crews turned up to the fire and interviewed the local Chief (Volunteer) Fire Fighter.

The interview went like this:

Reporter: So have you setup an evacuation centre in town?

Chief: Yes - the sports and recreation centre has been setup for evacuees.

Reporter: And have most of the residents arrived there?

Chief: No, there are only a couple of families there as of 30 minutes ago.

Reporter: Where are all the rest of the families then?

Chief: Still at their homes.

Reporter: Why haven't they evacuated!

Chief: This is a rural farming area. People here are accustomed to fighting fires. They will mostly want to defend their own homes. They can''t do that from the rec centre.

......cuts back to the news desk without another word......

The fires ended up only claiming one home.........the owners of which were one of the two families in the rec centre.........and they probably did the right thing because their house was fundamentally indefensible.
 
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Hardcalibres said:
  1. The population living in such houses is ageing - and arguably beyond the age where they are physically able to fight fires themselves
  2. But.....those same aged people are incapable of "starting again" even when their home is well insured. In most cases, they are also not physically/mentally able to handle the stress of losing their home, living like a gypsy for a year or two while their home is rebuilt and then trying to reacquire all the possessions they lost. Most such people end up broken by the experience.
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My parents are my nearest neighbors, in their 70s, with no insurance. Evacuation is pointless for them. If they lose their house, they are mostly likely dead in a matter of days.

This is a lot of people. Honestly, it could be me, I am not sure I could survive total losses.

The whole 'well, insurance will cover it' paradigm is dying in general. Increasingly, insurance companies are pulling out of entire regions.
 
Haertig said:
I thought it was in vogue to feel superior to unprepared people. I see a lot of discussion amongst the hard core about defending themselves from the unprepared. So that, basically, the unprepared will just go away and die, leaving the hard cores alone to enjoy their long term survival individually. If the unprepared die because they are unprepared, isn't that, like, mission accomplished?
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OK.......This is only my opinion. "NO prepper is hard core, if they live in a populated area".
Infact I would rate "Hard Core" first based on their distance from humans, the farther from humans the more serious their prepping foundation.
 
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DrJenner said:
If anyone needs a good deal on Mr Buddy heaters, Reg $179 I just got it for $99 before tax-
Northern tool has them on sale right now. Free shipping. Use code 283762 at checkout for another $20 off

https://www.northerntool.com/produc...-propane-heater-18-000-btu-model-mh18b-173635
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I have one for my camper.....and It kinda sucks......it puts of a ton of heat....but its also a steambath. The humidity goes up so high water started running down my walls. Its just a stopgap until I get around to making a wood stove.
 
Aerindel said:
I have one for my camper.....and It kinda sucks......it puts of a ton of heat....but its also a steambath. The humidity goes up so high water started running down my walls. Its just a stopgap until I get around to making a wood stove.
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Correct!

When they burn cleanly they produce water vapor. I have a larger version I run in my drafty shop. It has enough drafts to prevent the humidity. Good during a power outage in winter. High humidity makes it feel warmer.

Ben
 
Are those Mr Buddy heaters really safe inside? I've never owned one. Because I've never trusted one to be inside, no matter what the ads say. Maybe they're OK. It's just gives me the shivers thinking about something with flames, even if contained and considered "efficient", near me when I'm sleeping inside. I don't think I'd get a wink of sleep worrying about the possibility of CO poisoning. I'd be staring at the ceiling, checking my respirations and pulse non-stop, doing math problems in my head to prove to myself that I wasn't losing any mental clarity.
 
Haertig said:
... If the unprepared die because they are unprepared, isn't that, like, mission accomplished?
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Eventually, but remember.. 'It's the Transition That Kills'... 🤔 (Transition: from when SHTF, till the unprepared-Zomms are 'all gone')

Haertig said:
Are those Mr Buddy heaters really safe inside?..I don't think I'd get a wink of sleep worrying about the possibility of CO poisoning...
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Uhh, well.. Sir, a) If they were 'killing people left / right' (whether from CO-deaths or Fires, etc) Doubt they'd still be on the market / so ubiquitous, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...And..

b) There's, uh.. Something called a CO-detector - Which, if you've Any source of 'combustion' in the Home (ie: Gas Stove / Gas Furnace / Wood-Stove / Fireplace, etc, etc) there should Already Be one or more, so.. You - should be - covered (and, certainly able to Sleep) if ya've Got 'em, for using a 'Buddy' :cool:

..It's the 'Small, enclosed spaces' (ie: a Camper / Tent or small Room, etc) that are more of a concern..

jd
 
SoJer said:
..It's the 'Small, enclosed spaces' (ie: a Camper / Tent or small Room, etc) that are more of a concern..
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If they are a concern in small enclosed spaces then I wouldn't really feel safe with one in our larger enclosed space either.

I do have CO detectors in our house. Five of them, because I trust them more in a group of different brands / different models than individually. One of them is small, battery powered, and mobile - it goes on vacations with us for use in hotel rooms and Airbnb's (yeah, those places are supposed to have their own too, but who knows how well they are maintained?) Our mobile CO detector has a display meter that shows the CO level (and saves the max CO level too, if the level later drops). So we can see if a hotel has any CO present, not just an "alarming level of CO". Say, the built-in CO detector in the hotel room will alarm at 400ppm, I'd still want to know if the room was holding steady at 150ppm. Thus my own detector with a meter display. My own detector may itself not alarm at 150ppm for four or so hours (alarms are typically based on level AND time), but I don't have to wait around for that to happen - the display tells me there's CO in the room right away. I will admit that I've never detected CO in any hotel or Airbnb we've stayed in, but if I ever do detect any amount above minimal background (say, above 25ppm), we're out of there. I would report any reading above zero - even 1ppm - to the front desk. 25ppm would take a long time to affect you, if it ever did, but I don't want to be breathing that into my body even at that low amount.
 
Haertig said:
Are those Mr Buddy heaters really safe inside? I've never owned one. Because I've never trusted one to be inside, no matter what the ads say. Maybe they're OK. It's just gives me the shivers thinking about something with flames, even if contained and considered "efficient", near me when I'm sleeping inside. I don't think I'd get a wink of sleep worrying about the possibility of CO poisoning. I'd be staring at the ceiling, checking my respirations and pulse non-stop, doing math problems in my head to prove to myself that I wasn't losing any mental clarity.
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It never occurred to me to sleep with one. Once the bedding is warmed up in my camper, I turn it off. It would have to be incredibly cold to actually need one after that point

But yes, they are pretty safe, they have built in oxygen detectors. CO only happens from malfunctioning fire, for lack of a better term. Something would have to go pretty wrong with one in order for it to keep burning, but be burning so poorly it puts out CO in large amounts .


Haertig said:
I don't want to be breathing that into my body even at that low amount.
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What do you think its going to do??

Every-time I put wood on my stove I get 1-2 ppm in my house. Its been this way most of my life. I've spiked to 50 more than a few times in my shop before opening a door.

And yes, part of my job is checking spaces after CO alarms go off, and working in places with IDLH atmospheres. There are many things you don't want to breath....its all a matter of concentration. Just 'existing' is not enough to be a hazard with anything. Especially since you are going to always have trace amounts of almost everything, everywhere.

I too would be worried though about 25 ppm if I didn't know why. Not because the level is dangerous, but because it indicates something malfunctioning...unless I'm next to a running car, or forge or something.
 
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Aerindel said:
I too would be worried though about 25 ppm if I didn't know why. Not because the level is dangerous, but because it indicates something malfunctioning...unless I'm next to a running car, or forge or something.
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That is my worry. Say, a small crack in a furnaces burner raises your houses levels to 25ppm. You're not going to notice that, and your CO detectors probably aren't going to alarm either. Maybe after a few months at that level. But my concern is, as the furnace is heating, that small crack pops open wider, and now your house is potentially being hit with much higher levels (depending on how that crack affects the flames). Occurrences like that are not going to be a slow linear growth of CO. More of a quick jump. I would like to know about and investigate things before that jump happens. We have our furnace professionally inspected yearly. A few times we have let that inspection slip to two years. That is our fault, and a bad thing, so we are trying to never let that happen again. Once a year, at the start of the heating season, is the target. As you get older, you tend to pay more attention to this type of thing than you did in your invincible youth.

This thread has almost convinced me to go ahead and buy one of these Mr Buddy things to have around for emergencies. They do seem relatively safe (even by my probably overboard standards) from what you all are saying. Especially given all the other CO detectors I have in my house. Chances are it would never be used. We've only had one multi-day power outage in our lives. Even though this was in winter, we never needed anything more than an extra sweatshirt, thicker socks, and thin gloves to stay warm enough. Even most of our salt water aquarium residents survived that - heavy blankets on top of the tanks, and some emergency fish oxygen-generating setup we had that worked based on pretty strong hydrogen peroxide mixed with some kind of beads in a special ceramic container - I have no idea what the chemistry behind that was, probably either magic or placebo.
 
Haertig said:
emergency fish oxygen-generating setup we had that worked based on pretty strong hydrogen peroxide mixed with some kind of beads in a special ceramic container - I have no idea what the chemistry behind that was, probably either magic or placebo.
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Chemistry, not magic. h2o2, when exposed to a catalyst, breaks down into water and oxygen. Some types of torpedos used it as an o2 source for their engines.

Buddy heaters are....handy.....but like I mentioned, they have downsides, that being the make very humid air. For every pound of propane you burn, you add 1.6 pounds of water to your air.

But the don't need electricity, and dump out a lot of heat, very quickly, and pretty safely. They use a ceramic catalyst plate so the propane is burned extremely cleanly. There is almost no smell of gas at all when using one.

They are supposed to automatically shut off if 02 levels get too low.

I don't think I would sleep with one running, but I've always found when cold camping, if I can just warm up the tent/etc so the bedding and my feet, etc, aren't cold, I can sleep in sub freezing temps comfortably.

Its going to bed cold, that I have a problem with. No matter how good the sleeping bag, you have to warm it up first, and if that heat comes from body temp, you can get pretty dang cold crawling into a 10º sleeping bag.
 
DrJenner said:
We don’t use the Mr Buddy heaters in our RV, we use it in our outhouse, pump house and the greenhouse.
They work well in those spaces
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I bet your plants love it. Excellent choices of places to use that type of heater. With the O2 sensor it is a good brand to choose.

The brand I used to sell was not UL approved because it alarmed too soon to meet UL standards. The regular hardware store CO detector is set for something like 70PPM for over an hour. It has been decades so my numbers mayn't be exact. Levels of 70 PPM are not healthy but the alarms are not that accurate and fire departments don't like false alarms.

I have only dealt with a couple of good brands so I can't speak to the industry. In my experience the best CO detectors have a digital readout. Mine had multiple alarm levels. CO accumulates in the blood much faster than you can get rid of it so even low levels aren't good for you. Even low levels of CO aren't good for you.
 
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