Russia Versus The Ukraine

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Jayson said:
The US has already been involved in European conflicts twice in the 20th Century. We need to stay out of this next one.
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I understand your position… The European leaders are not fully committed to do there part… I am from Denmark… And it’s frustrating to watch this… If Europe falls, America will be in a dangerous position… China and Russia combined is dangerous enough… I believe that Russia will attack Europe very soon… Using nuclear bombs… They believe that America will back down, and that they will not retaliate… America will be in chock… That’s what they are planning… Ukraine is just a little goal… They will attack Europe… I hope I’m wrong…
 
He is an idiot, and the worst thing is that he is an intelligent idiot… He think that because he is more intelligent than any of our leaders, that he can get away with anything… He is talking about mass murder… He may actually get away with it… The west / NATO needs to talk a language that he understands… Go to defcon 2… Send nuclear forces to Europe… Conventional forces to Ukraine… Call them up and make it crystal clear that any attack with nuclear weapons will cause us to destroy Russia completely… That will probably make them stop… This is no time for weakness… Play his game of real destruction…
 
Putin will NEVER attack Europe with nuclear bombs as a first strike, he will not attack your and my country with nuclear bombs either, I am sure of it.
Putin has nothing to gain with a war against Europe, what does he want to gain here?
A dissatisfied population that makes life difficult for him? An ailing industry? Other natural resources or innovative technology?

I agree with you in one thing, most European countries have saved the army to death, with these military units you do not achieve much.
Nevertheless, war against Russia is suicide, you can just shoot yourself, this has nothing to do with cowardice that others have already experienced live, ask the Germans.

The Russians are not always clean, I agree with you, but Brussels and NATO use similar means. The best and most important thing would be a round table, and all parties must make compromises. If it would come to a war, then we are all due, whether Europeans or Russians, in the end it always hits the wrong, the ordinary people.
 
Putin & Company know they have 2-3 days without an interference problem from NATO - with overwhelming force and a focused drive to block the NATO guarded borders >>> it will go from a "help Ukraine" to an "attack Russia" scenario - what little consensus they have on Day One of the invasion attack will change 180 degrees in the following days - especially when Germany gets cold with the gas pipeline cut on Day One .....
 
The scenario we are looking at, at the moment is: Erdogan in Turkey is losing power quickly from his totalitarian method, his money is losing power, his family and friends are getting richer and can only WAIT for the EU to piss him off enough to open his borders and let another few million refugees into the back door of Europe to create another total chaos.
Putin in Russia is sitting on a modernised electronic military which has nothing to do at the moment except knock on the Ukraines door and send "peacekeepers" to Kazachstan and play with the gas pipelines to the EU.
Biden is crapping his puppet pants with obummer pulling the strings financed by soros and fiendish friends around the world.
The EU just lost the strongest money, UK Pounds and Germany has to foot the bills now alone, France is falling into muslim hands, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy are losing value since they refuse to pay their taxes and demand help from a failing EU.
China is slipping into financial chaos, exporting crap to the world, hiding Wuhan crap just like Chernobyl was hidden for toooooo long, led by a highschool grad who hates anybody with more intelligence than himself; (just like Stalin) and is hoarding 70% of the food produced in the world at the moment...
South America has been or is already being depopulated by bidume and Kameltoe by opening the borders, Mexico is run by corrupt officials and just like Venezuela, has lots of oil, money and workers,,,but is being hoarded by the few ruling class mafiosas.
Africa is and has been financially plundered and raped by the many oil companies paying the corrupt leaders there and hoarding the money for the new-rich, while at the same time importing food and clothes to the "poor" Africans...since the food and clothes that are produced there cannot compete with the subsidized crap from the EU and China. Africa should not ever get any help anymore from anyone...they have enough oil, gold, diamonds, land, touristic, oceans for fishing, jungles areas to produce food and the thousands of cubic miles(!!) of fresh water in the subterranian caverns which Gaddafy found and laid 1400 km of pipelines and pump stations to make the north side of the African continent into a new paradise...but then was run down by the ABC companies in the US after he achieved the alignment of several oil producing nations to demand payment for their oil in AFRICAN GOLD DINARS and no longer the paper dollars....
Such a happy world we are living in at the moment...live free, Gary
PS: Russia is NOT interested in the sheet-of-paper-sized piece of land called Europe for anything but the buying power of the money there.
PPS: they need to be careful of what I predicted back in the Cold War times: lay a GAS line from Russia to Europe...and wake up to a poisonous gas instead of natural gas to make breakfast one day....
 
GaRp58 said:
The scenario we are looking at, at the moment is: Erdogan in Turkey is losing power quickly from his totalitarian method, his money is losing power, his family and friends are getting richer and can only WAIT for the EU to piss him off enough to open his borders and let another few million refugees into the back door of Europe to create another total chaos.
Putin in Russia is sitting on a modernised electronic military which has nothing to do at the moment except knock on the Ukraines door and send "peacekeepers" to Kazachstan and play with the gas pipelines to the EU.
Biden is crapping his puppet pants with obummer pulling the strings financed by soros and fiendish friends around the world.
The EU just lost the strongest money, UK Pounds and Germany has to foot the bills now alone, France is falling into muslim hands, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy are losing value since they refuse to pay their taxes and demand help from a failing EU.
China is slipping into financial chaos, exporting crap to the world, hiding Wuhan crap just like Chernobyl was hidden for toooooo long, led by a highschool grad who hates anybody with more intelligence than himself; (just like Stalin) and is hoarding 70% of the food produced in the world at the moment...
South America has been or is already being depopulated by bidume and Kameltoe by opening the borders, Mexico is run by corrupt officials and just like Venezuela, has lots of oil, money and workers,,,but is being hoarded by the few ruling class mafiosas.
Africa is and has been financially plundered and raped by the many oil companies paying the corrupt leaders there and hoarding the money for the new-rich, while at the same time importing food and clothes to the "poor" Africans...since the food and clothes that are produced there cannot compete with the subsidized crap from the EU and China. Africa should not ever get any help anymore from anyone...they have enough oil, gold, diamonds, land, touristic, oceans for fishing, jungles areas to produce food and the thousands of cubic miles(!!) of fresh water in the subterranian caverns which Gaddafy found and laid 1400 km of pipelines and pump stations to make the north side of the African continent into a new paradise...but then was run down by the ABC companies in the US after he achieved the alignment of several oil producing nations to demand payment for their oil in AFRICAN GOLD DINARS and no longer the paper dollars....
Such a happy world we are living in at the moment...live free, Gary
PS: Russia is NOT interested in the sheet-of-paper-sized piece of land called Europe for anything but the buying power of the money there.
PPS: they need to be careful of what I predicted back in the Cold War times: lay a GAS line from Russia to Europe...and wake up to a poisonous gas instead of natural gas to make breakfast one day....
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The gas line from Russia is not a good thing… Poison from the gas line? 🤔 Why not? I suspect that Russia may already have Novichok placed in major cities of the world… Ready to be used against us…
 
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Jontte, we all understand your suspicion of the Russians. But this is not 1939. The Russians and the Chinese are paranoid about having a buffer on their borders. Russia is paranoid about NATO. Putin will not have NATO in Ukraine, that is a red line, which if crossed, he will go to war. For all the bravery of the Ukrainian people, the Russians will take all the territory they want in a war and there is nothing Ukraine, NATO, or the USA can do about it. The only solution is to come to some understanding by which the Russians are satisfied Ukraine will not join NATO.

And what the f--- is NATO? A vestige of the Cold War. I keep asking, why is the USA even in NATO? This is not 1945 with Europe in ruins. Europe, as a whole, is at least the equal of the US in everything but military. Let them form their own military and defend themselves. Europe is or will become dependent on Russian natural gas. Russia does not have the capital or know-how to fully modernize their petroleum industry. Why isn't anyone seeing the opportunity here? Russia is a European country. Sooner or later stronger economic ties will be formed between Western Europe and Russia. NATO is just getting in the way of all of this.
 
RockRealFlock said:
I believe that the Russians are planning to invade Europe. With nuclear bombs... Putin is gambling high... America will probably back down and let them take Europe... They already said that they will reduce us to nuclear ash... They will leave America alone, but take Europe... Europe isen't ready... Why? Why don't they build an army that can match the Russians? Stupid...
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Happy believing! I don't think Russia is really interested about Europe more as an customer for gas and other products. Further i don't think Russia will trow any nuclear bombs on Europe. There's more danger North Corea or Joe "Mr. Senile" Biden (Biden wasn't miss to be active on one single war in his life) will use nuclear bombs.
One of the reasons why the Russians are at the Ukrainian border i see in the problem the NATO wants the Ukraine into the NATO - even some older contracts say not to this expansion. NATO warships in the black sea won't be really helpfull to increase stability. In the same time the world complains about the evil russians the NATO sent 20'000 soldiers to Poland, near the russian border.
You might don't see and read it in the USA, but i do: The other problem is the EU and especially Germany are thinking the whole world have to live however they say and think. Since long time Germany try to tell Putin what kind of standarts Russia shall to have and since long time the EU and Germany are giving restrictions to Russia because they don't follow their advices. In my sight it's enough reason for Putin to go upset sooner or later.
If Putin will seriously kill Europe he just need to turn off the gas delivery. The most of the used gas for industry and energy plants is delivered from Russia.

Why there's no european army? Well, they are talking about. Since years btw. Well, no one would pay for it but every one would be the one who have the most rights to say what's going on. On the other side our tree huggers and star dust collectors (mostly lefties) dream about peace for the eternity and hadn't in their mind there's any possibility of war again. Especially in Germany they was sure nothing like an war will happen anymore - if the world follows the rules of Germany and the EU. The german Bundesheer btw was 20 years ago still one of the strongest army in Europe beside France and Great Britain. In meantime the German Air Force is happpy they find an working plane on the airfield. Around 60% of the tanks aren't working anymore because repairs wasn't done - spare parts was to expensiven and not ordered. In Afghanistan the Heckler-Koch combat rifle wasn't work well enough anymore, the run has warped because of the temperature.... And yesterday it read in german news the rockets are moldy, rusty and loosing nitroglycerine...
So how Europe will organise any European Forces if the involved countries aren't able to keep the own troops in an halway working condition?
 
Meanwhile, Germany uses the US to defend it, uses Russia for cheap gas and lays down the rules for the EU. They are so big economically that even Russia must accept the terms of their customer. They don't need nuclear power because they are evidently pulling all the strings.

I would just like to ask why is it the USA is defending Germany? Does Germany have a history of not being able to defend itself? As a matter of fact, we in the USA ought to feel like sheep being asked to defend a pack of wolves. Not only that but we sheep must cuddle up and keep the wolves warm at night.
 
Schattentarn said:
I would just like to ask why is it the USA is defending Germany? Does Germany have a history of not being able to defend itself?
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You apparently did not have the pleasure of communicating with a modern Germans ... I had a similar pleasure in the fall of 2021... Everything is VERY BAD... Even VERY SAD... I doubt very much that the French are doing better than the Germans ...
 
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Both my children and my grandchildren live in germany. Thank God I made them both get good schooling and learn to take care of themselves. They are some of the very few who are still working and making good money. They both had to take the fukking shot but as of today they have not had any bad side effects. Both have everything they need, but they are 1000 km from me and my BOL...if the SHTF or the Ukrainian situation gets worse...we will all have trouble seing each other again...Live free, Gary
 
From what I have seen today, Biden seems more concerned over Putin invading Ukraine, with their own President basically saying you really need to "chill" and stop being dramatic. Then we get a warning from China. . . So who are we going to war with 1st?? Is it going to be WW3? Since we ditched our British allies during the Afghanistan withdrawl, who is actually still going to stand with us? And where in the heck are we going to be fighting?

 
Its funny and sad at the same time to see how many EU "leaders" are calling for Russia to be put in its place by any means necesary. Seems to me that 90% of people think that a war today would look the same as 2ww with soldiers in the streets,guerrila fighters hiding in forests and so on. War today will be completely different. Drones,long range missiles,nukes (in worst case scenario) .

If a big group forms a resistance and hide in the woods im pretty sure the whole forest would be burned down with napalm and similar stuff. Russian army would accept the scorched land taktics.
If you happen to see a soldier in the street it would mean that the area around him was already shelled to oblivion and now they are just cleaning the remains.

Even if someone decided to completely nuke russia to hell. The "dead hand" AI would still make sure that the victory wont be cheap.
 
The EU has 445 million people packed into 4 million Km²
Russia has 140 million people spread out over 17 million Km²
(The US, for comparison, has 330 million in 10 million Km²)
The EU is what they call a "Target Rich Environment"
 
so,let's give that cave troll in kremlin all he wants, incl Czech rep, hey it's an old warsaw pact country, let's go back to the age of the iron curtain and all is sweet and peachy...
do I sound sarcastic and harsh,maybe,at least I know where we stand here in my neck of woods, same place as in 1939...alone and for Gods sake,don't rely on any outside help if things go to chits..
 
jontte said:
so,let's give that cave troll in kremlin all he wants, incl Czech rep, hey it's an old warsaw pact country, let's go back to the age of the iron curtain and all is sweet and peachy...
do I sound sarcastic and harsh,maybe,at least I know where we stand here in my neck of woods, same place as in 1939...alone and for Gods sake,don't rely on any outside help if things go to chits..
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Never said we should let russia do as it pleases. But for me it looks like there are only people that want full out war or people that are pro russia in every way. At least thats how news,forums,chats on the streets looks like here in Czech Rep.
 
I know i'm proably not that smart - or not smart enough to understand this, as far we got it in european news:

The USA, Germany and the NATO demanding Russia shall remove the russian troops near the ukrainian border because it's an act of agression - those troops are on russian ground.
Ok.
But in the same time this western alliance sends aircraft carriers to the mediterranean sea, means other battleships too, having battleships in the black sea, sending troops and material to Lithuania (Germany), to Poland (NATO & USA), Bulgaria and other countires who share the borders with Russia - and it's not an agressive act. I will leave aside the increase in troop strength in Germany.

Does the senile in the White House really think Russia would be impressed about or he's just behind another war to save his place in history books (if we still have those after) as the big hero who "rescued" the world? If it wouldn't be so serious it's really looking like an comedy to watch the oedipus of France and the economic scammer in Berlin following like decrepit, brainless dachshunds.
The amusing thing is also the threats made to Russia about allegedly painful sanctions without naming any. What humanity-fearing, toothless idiots.

I'm not really an supporter of Putin - but i do absolutly understand the Russians.

I apologize if I should have offended a dachshund
 
Mountain Dragon, I believe you are right, in that Putin's motives are much more obvious than Xi's, and I don't think Russia's goals are as ambitious as China's. Russia doesn't have the same problems China has.
China wants what the Nazi's called "lebensraum."
Russia has no population crisis like China, their goals are more purely strategic.
 
AP Reporter Matt Lee takes State Department Spokesman Ned Price to task over allegations of a Russian false flag operation...with no evidence...
Lee: "This is like Alex Jones territory you're getting into here" 🤣
 
Geo politically the Ukraine has always mostly been historically part of the Russian sphere of power. I’m not so sure that president Putin is as bad as he is made out to be. He comes across as a very astute man. He certainly turned Russia around after the Bolsheviks had milked the cow dry just as with their many crimes against humanity namely starving 5 - 7 million Ukrainians to death in just that province alone Maybe Alexander Solzhenitsyn's 200 years together may enlighten sone of where to look. Yes it would do well to reflect upon 200 yrs together. Alexander’s last book of which he wrote upon his return to Russia . Though it’s rather hard to find in the western world I’m not sure if it has ever been correctly and fully translated from the Russian into English format yet. Why did he return to Russia one would ask. Maybe because he knew the communist era in Russia was over and it was safe to do so in knowing that the Bolshevik host had finished all it’s dirty deeds destroying the Russian monarchy the people and had long absconded with the wealth of Russia before the break up of Russia began in the early 90’s
 
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